Authority of the Aposltes to bind and loose, and the Papcy

windlessuser · #1 Jan 30, '10, 5:24 pm

I've been trying to explain to a sda friend of mine the authority Jesus gave to the Apostles and especially Peter. I'm not well versed in scripture as I should be, but I think i understand the concepts. Funny enough, he doesn't think he's protestant as he says the title is too broad. Some useful resources with scripture would be wonderful.

yours In Christ.

**Trishie** · #2 Jan 30, '10, 5:42 pm

When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
They replied, "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am".
Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."

Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood
has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,
and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matthew 16:13-19

**Trishie** · #3 Jan 30, '10, 5:55 pm

When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter,
"Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."
Jesus repeated the question: "Simon son of John, do you love me?" "Yes, Lord," Peter said, "you know I love you." "Then take care of my sheep," Jesus said.
The third time he said to him,
"Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep.

John 21:15-17

Remember that Jesus had said,

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 19:11

"He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them." John 10:12

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me...John 10:14

And now He was asking Peter to shepherd His people.
Peter, first pope, with authority from Jesus

The word "pope", comes from the Greek word "papas' in Latin, "papa' meaning 'father'' (Oxford English Dictionary)

windlessuser · #4 Jan 30, '10, 6:02 pm

Thank you very much for the speedy response! This may not be too convincing tho, is there anything else i can use?

windlessuser · #5 Jan 30, '10, 6:03 pm

From what he understands of their authority. Peter Overruled god, which is why we worship on Sunday. I was trying to point him towards Acts of the apostles, where they'd preach in synagouge on the sabbath, but hold the mass (break bread) on Sunday. He wasnt too convinced though

**Trishie** · #6 Jan 30, '10, 6:13 pm

I think you will find that nothing will convince him if the Word of Jesus Himself does not.
Jesus promised that the 'gates of hell will not prevail" against the Church entrusted to Peter, and should we disbelieve Jesus?

You mention that you are not well-versed in Scripture so perhaps the value of the discussion is more in encouraging you to read scripture?

windlessuser · #7 Jan 30, '10, 6:15 pm

Ah, when i say not well versed. I was kinda speaking literally on the lines of not being able to cite chapter and verse on the spot like everybody else. i can paraphrase though.

**Trishie** · #8 Jan 30, '10, 6:23 pm

I think you will find that nothing will convince him if the Word of Jesus Himself does not.
Jesus promised that the 'gates of hell will not prevail" against the Church entrusted to Peter, and should we disbelieve Jesus?

You mention that you are not well-versed in Scripture so perhaps the value of the discussion is more in encouraging you to read scripture?

The Sabbath was observed on the seventh day of the week because....

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made (Genesis 2:2-3.)

The time of the Jewish Sabbath was determined by God's action.
Jesus our Saviour' determined the change.Jesus, God Incarnate was crucified on a Friday, and his body lay in the tomb over the Sabbath day. Jesus was ressurrected on Sunday morning, so He by His resurrection, made this day the most sacred.

When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go and anoint him.
Very early when the sun had risen, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb.
[Mark 16:1-2]

From the time of Jesus's resurrection the Sabbath day was changed from Saturday to Sunday, in commemmoration of the ressurrection of the Lord, as shown by this passage from Acts.
"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight (Acts 20:7.)

**Trishie** · #9 Jan 30, '10, 6:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by windlessuser

Ah, when i say not well versed. I was kinda speaking literally on the lines of not being able to cite chapter and verse on the spot like everybody else. i can paraphrase though.

Of course!

I don't have a photographic memory either!

Silyosha · #10 Jan 30, '10, 6:58 pm

"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,
and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matthew 16:13-19

BrianH · #11 Jan 30, '10, 7:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trishie

I think you will find that nothing will convince him if the Word of Jesus Himself does not.
Jesus promised that the 'gates of hell will not prevail" against the Church entrusted to Peter, and should we disbelieve Jesus?

You mention that you are not well-versed in Scripture so perhaps the value of the discussion is more in encouraging you to read scripture?

The Sabbath was observed on the seventh day of the week because....

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made (Genesis 2:2-3.)

The time of the Jewish Sabbath was determined by God's action.
Jesus our Saviour' determined the change.Jesus, God Incarnate was crucified on a Friday, and his body lay in the tomb over the Sabbath day. Jesus was ressurrected on Sunday morning, so He by His resurrection, made this day the most sacred.

When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go and anoint him.
Very early when the sun had risen, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb.
[Mark 16:1-2]

From the time of Jesus's resurrection the Sabbath day was changed from Saturday to Sunday, in commemmoration of the ressurrection of the Lord, as shown by this passage from Acts.
"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight (Acts 20:7.)

The Catholic Church does not teach the Sabbath was changed. They teach the Sabbath is Saturday and the Lord's Day is Sunday.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm

windlessuser · #12 Jan 31, '10, 4:38 am

Thanks again for all the responses

Br. Rich SFO · #13 Jan 31, '10, 6:11 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by windlessuser

Thanks again for all the responses

Keep in mind that there are two passages that are important to the topic of Binding. The first authority to do so is given to Peter alone in 16:18, the second is given to the gathered Apostles (The Church) WITH Peter in 18:18.

narnia59 · #14 Feb 1, '10, 7:51 am

There is so much information regarding Peter and his role it is amazing once you start to study it.

Matthew 16 has been mentioned, but pay particular attention to the 'keys of the kingdom' Jesus says he will give Peter in verse 19. This ties back to Isaiah 22 where in the Jewish kingships (which foreshadow the kingdom of Christ) there was ONE person who received the key and was in charge of the palace while the king was away.

The importance of changing his name from Simon to Peter -- this happens the very first time Jesus meets Peter as recorded in John 1:42. He gives him the Aramaic name "Cephas" which means "Rock". When God changes someone's name is it to give them a new identify and role. Examples -- Abram becomes Abraham in Genesis 17:5 because God made him the "father of many nations". Jacob becomes Israel in Genesis 35:10 as he is to become the father of the nation of Israel -- the 12 tribes. Only in one place in the NT does Christ change someone's name -- it is Peter at their first meeting for he is to become the father of the church Christ is establishing.

Matthew 17 records an important event in which the tax collectors want to know if Jesus pays the temple tax. They do not go to Jesus directly -- they go to Peter. The "outside world" has identified Peter as a representative of Christ. Jesus responds by having Peter go fishing -- literally, to find a coin in the mouth of the first fish he catches. He then has him take that to pay the tax for both Christ and Peter. He affirms their understanding of Peter as his representative as he has Peter present one coin to them for both Christ and Peter.

Matthew 26 records Peter, James and John being invited to pray with Christ in the garden of Gethsamane. Even though all three fall asleep, the only one he holds accountable and takes to task is Peter -- the leader. Mark 14 has a similar account.

Mark 16 -- when the angel tells the women at the tomb that Jesus is not there he tells them to go tell his discples and Peter. The angel recognizes Peter as separate and their leader.

In Luke 22 Christ tells Peter than he will fall away, but that when he returns his role will be to 'strengthen' the rest of the apostles.

After the resurrection Christ appears to Peter alone before appearing to the rest of the apostles as recorded in Luke 24:34 and 1 Corinthians 15:5.

Hope those help.

windlessuser · #15 Feb 1, '10, 7:55 am

WOW, sometimes I do regret not opting to do litereature in High school. I tend to miss many things it seems. Thanks again, didn't know you guys where still responding to this thread