Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Feb 8, '10, 1:59 pm
paul c paul c is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2008
Posts: 5,612
Religion: Catholic
Default Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

We have been having a long discussion on sola scripture with AmericanJosiah here: http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....41&postcount=1

He has steadfastly argued that there is no scriptural support for the Catholic Church's authority to hold and teach the one true Christian faith. His basic argument is that the words "Catholic Church" are never mentioned in scripture. He has challenged the Catholics to prove the the Catholic Church is actually the Apostolic Church, with the auhtority to bind and lose and to define authentic Christian doctrine.

Lets go to it...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Feb 8, '10, 2:05 pm
MarcoPolo's Avatar
MarcoPolo MarcoPolo is offline
Forum Master
Radio Club Member
 
Join Date: August 17, 2005
Posts: 13,954
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Fortunately, I am able to copy-paste my same answer to threads Josiah has been in in the past....what a time-saver!

Regarding who "validates" who, I would approach it like this. Who validates the authority of the first Church leaders, the Apostles? When they claim authority are they "validating themselves?" Does their authority come from themselves? We don't have any letters from Jesus stating Who God commissioned. We have apostles (or their associates) writing down that Jesus gave them authority. Is this circular? I say no. Does this demonstrate that we must consider the testimony of the early Church to know the truth? I say yes.

A study of the early Church reveals coherence in the Resurrection, martyrs attesting to the truths of the faith (such as Justin Martyr who died for his beliefs in the Real Presence, regenerative quality of baptism, or other ancient Fathers who embraced the Deuterocanon, etc...), and the earliest letters of the Church. An important study is of St. Irenaeus who debated with the Gnostics who authentically held apostolic succession (Against Heresies. 3.3.1-3ff). Note that the debate was NOT whether or not succession existed, but rather who had it. The Gnostics not only clung to a different set of Scripture, but had no known capacity to demonstrate succession. Irenaeus wrote around 170-180. Justin around 150-160. And long before them, Clement explicitly stated around 90 A.D. the following: "Our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned, and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry." (Clement, Letter to the Corinthians , #44). According to multiple antiquated historical accounts of Church history, this Clement is likely the very same Clement referred to as Paul's "fellow worker" in Philippians 4:3. (See Jerome, : Also, Eusebius, Church History, Book III, Chapter 4, #10) and others.) All of these Church Father's espousing apostolic succession, a Church hierachy, as well as foundational Catholic dogma, wrote well before the formation of the Canon of the New Testament. We take the truth of the Gospel on the testament of the early Christians and the death's they welcomed, the miracles they performed---it is these testaments which demonstrate that the commission of the Church is divine. And it is their surviving accounts which demonstrate identification of the true Church as one with a successive line of bishops. In following centuries, other succession accounts can be read that dovetail from Irenaeus'. And so by this, by the doctrines taught in the early Church, by the canon of Scripture that was assembled, the Catholic Church is identified as that same Church given the divine commission.

It is by patterns such as this which we identify God as the one who validates the authority of the Catholic Church.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Feb 8, '10, 2:06 pm
TEPO's Avatar
TEPO TEPO is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2009
Posts: 5,832
Religion: post-modern tribal Catholic
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Why would the catholic Church need scriptural permission to teach? Is'nt the bible just a snapshot of the beginnings of the Church, which explains the truths of Jesus and why we are Christian?

Should'nt the Church continue marching on after the last page of the bible was written?

Haven't the Popes continued the work of the Apostles in advising the faithful how to best apply their "works" as the times move on?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Feb 8, '10, 3:40 pm
Heavens Flowers's Avatar
Heavens Flowers Heavens Flowers is offline
Junior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: December 16, 2009
Posts: 264
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Uhhh guys Jesus Christ himself gave the Catholic church, authority to teach his words, when he made the apostle Peter the first Pope of his church. It wasn't called Catholic then, just Christian. Catholicus is a greek work( I believe I spelled wrong) which means universal. So Catholic church simply means a universal church in Christ.
__________________
God is LOVE!!! http://forums.catholic.com/group.php?groupid=436
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Feb 8, '10, 3:46 pm
Erich Erich is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Posts: 3,369
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul c View Post
His basic argument is that the words "Catholic Church" are never mentioned in scripture.
That's because the Bible wasn't originally written in English (KJV-only types notwithstanding).

Acts 9:31 Then the church throughout all* Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.

*In the original Greek, it is:
Acts 9:31 ἡ μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ᾽ ὁλης της ιουδαιας και γαλιλαιας και σαμαρειας ειχεν ειρηνην οικοδομουμενη και πορευομενη τω φοβω του κυριου, και τη παρακλησει του ἁγιου πνευματος επληθυνοντο.

The term in bold commonly translated as 'church throughout all' is
in Greek '”εκκλησια καθ᾽ ὁλης”—pronounced "Ekklesia Kath olos” or the Church Universal or some might say The Catholic Church, since Kath olos is the same term used by Ignatius for the Church in his letter to the Smyrnaeans.
__________________
Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Feb 8, '10, 4:11 pm
AmericanJosiah AmericanJosiah is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Posts: 1,024
Religion: Lutheran
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul c View Post

He has steadfastly argued that there is no scriptural support for the Catholic Church's authority to hold and teach the one true Christian faith. His basic argument is that the words "Catholic Church" are never mentioned in scripture. He has challenged the Catholics to prove the the Catholic Church is actually the Apostolic Church, with the auhtority to bind and lose and to define authentic Christian doctrine.

Lets go to it...

1. I never said that CATHOLICS have no responsibility to teach. You have been teaching a lot here, and I've NEVER suggested that you should not. Our discussion has been singularly to the point of ACCOUNTABILITY. Are teachers ACCOUNTABLE for what they teach as doctrine? And if so (and, in keeping with your Catechism # 87, you've carefully dodged that), then WHAT is the most sound canon/norma normans for that evaluation?


2. Your apologetic that the most sound way to determine if a teacher is correct is for that teacher to exempt himself from accountability, himself insist that he exclusively is incapable of error in these matters, and that all that is moot in the singular case of he himself alone, rather all must whatever he himself exclusively says "with docility" "as Jesus speaking" BECAUSE Jesus said that, in exclusive reference to The Catholic Church. Your whole apologetic depends on Jesus insisting that specificly THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is infallible, incapable of error, and whatever IT exclusively says is to be accepted with docility as He Himself speaking. Problem is: You can't find any verse that even so much as MENTIONS The Catholic Church - about anything, for anything, concerning anything, from Jesus or any Apostle. Nor can you find anything about any teacher being infallible, incapable of error and unaccountable. What you find is Jesus boldly and repeatedly warning us about false teachers, Jesus praising the Ephesian Christians for doing the opposite of what you suggest, praising them for regarding their teachers as accountable, for testing/arbitrating them, and declaring them to be false (Rev. 2:2 for this example).

Friend, if I posted that it is a matter of highest certainty and importance that I myself alone am the most handsome man in the world - because Jesus said so, I just have a hunch your first question would be: Where? GOOD question, too, since my whole apologetic depends on that point (if that, it IS that point). Now, if I responded, "Well, actually, I'm not once so much as even mentioned by Jesus" I just think you'd likely laugh your head off. And frankly, you should.






.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Feb 8, '10, 4:13 pm
Non Serviam Non Serviam is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2007
Posts: 962
Religion: Believer in Jesus
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich View Post
That's because the Bible wasn't originally written in English (KJV-only types notwithstanding).

Acts 9:31 Then the church throughout all* Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.

*In the original Greek, it is:
Acts 9:31 ἡ μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ᾽ ὁλης της ιουδαιας και γαλιλαιας και σαμαρειας ειχεν ειρηνην οικοδομουμενη και πορευομενη τω φοβω του κυριου, και τη παρακλησει του ἁγιου πνευματος επληθυνοντο.

The term in bold commonly translated as 'church throughout all' is
in Greek '”εκκλησια καθ᾽ ὁλης”—pronounced "Ekklesia Kath olos” or the Church Universal or some might say The Catholic Church, since Kath olos is the same term used by Ignatius for the Church in his letter to the Smyrnaeans.
SO by this logic you also accept that the Baptist church is mentioned in the NT?

The sentence in Acts makes no grammatical sense if you translate it with "universal" instead of "throughout all" as it refers to a specific, limited parcel of land-just a coincidence the same words are used, as there was no "catholic" brand at this point, just like John being referred to as a baptist before the secondary meaning evolved-the terms used in the first part of Acts are "followers of the Way" and "Christians".

As to the question of teaching authority-it was the later "Catholics" who taught that they had exclusive teaching authority a circular argument rejected by both groups of Orthodox and anyone who is familiar with Lord Acton.
__________________
Let's not forget that Jesus was in the minority when He stood in front of the Sanhedrin. As was Stephen, As was James, as was Paul. Being part of a large, official religious body that believes it speaks for God isn't necessarily synonymous with being right about something.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Feb 8, '10, 4:25 pm
AmericanJosiah AmericanJosiah is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Posts: 1,024
Religion: Lutheran
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoPolo View Post
Who validates the authority of the first Church leaders, the Apostles?
Those men are not The Catholic Church.

There's nothing that says they were infallible, incapable of error, unaccountable and exempt from norming. In fact, most of Jesus' ministry was CORRECTING them - odd if they were incapable of being wrong. And didn't He call one of them "Satan?" Which one was that?

And you forget that JESUS (God) established them. NEVER calling them infallible/unaccountable. But you have yet to show where Jesus so much as even MENTIONED The Catholic Church. About anything, for anything, concerning anything, in any regard - about infalliblity or anything else.





Quote:
Clement explicitly stated around 90 A.D. the following: "Our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned, and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry." (Clement, Letter to the Corinthians , #44).
Without discussing the point Clement makes, where is he even claiming that The Catholic Church specifically and exclusively is infallible/unaccountable, and that whatever it says is simply to be accepted with docility? Yes, the ordained ordained - and the office continues to this day, in virtually every denomination (The Catholic Church no less or no more than any other), but this has nothing to do with teachers therefore being unaccountable for what they teach, particularly as doctrine.


To the question, I don't know that The Catholic Church has a teaching function (how does an institutional entity teach anything????) but certainly CATHOLICS do. And all the Catholics here exercise that - so they must think that they do. I see nothing that says that only those registered in congregations legally affiliated with The Catholic Church (or any other denomination) may or may not teach (it seems a wide variety do here). The more relevant issue is: Are they accountable for the doctrines they teach? Was Jesus correct to repeatedly and boldly warn us about false teachers (never exempting The Catholic Church)? Was He right to praise the Ephesians Christians for regarding teachers as accountable, for testing/norming them, for arbitrating the issue and for declaring those teachers as false (Rev. 2:2)? That one MAY teach is not the same as Is ONE unaccountable for what is taught?






.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Feb 8, '10, 5:29 pm
kepha1's Avatar
kepha1 kepha1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2004
Posts: 1,398
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
1. I never said that CATHOLICS have no responsibility to teach. You have been teaching a lot here, and I've NEVER suggested that you should not. Our discussion has been singularly to the point of ACCOUNTABILITY. Are teachers ACCOUNTABLE for what they teach as doctrine? And if so (and, in keeping with your Catechism # 87, you've carefully dodged that), then WHAT is the most sound canon/norma normans for that evaluation?
This has been covered before:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=6261059#post6261059 post #347 and it hasn't been dodged. So far, it is you that have dodged by abondoning the thread, and now you are here with the same accusation.

Text without context is a pretext. Let’s try #86, 87, and 88.

85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ." 47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith." 48

87 Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me", 49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
88 The Church's Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these."


In the Catholic vision the pope teaches in the name of the episcopate and the episcopate teaches in the name of the Church and the Church teaches in the name of Christ, and Christ teaches in the name of God. All this "accountability" nonsense is just fist shaking based on prejudice.

__________________
<img src=http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6171262410_63c439459b_m.jpg border=0 alt= />
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Feb 8, '10, 5:34 pm
kepha1's Avatar
kepha1 kepha1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2004
Posts: 1,398
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
2. Your apologetic that the most sound way to determine if a teacher is correct is for that teacher to exempt himself from accountability,
WRONG. The teacher, the Church, the pillar and ground of truth, is superintended by the Holy Spirit to teach without error on matters of faith and morals. Your system, by your own admission, is fallible and I suggest that you are projecting and force fitting your definition of "church" as a rule and guide to what you think the Catholic Church should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
himself insist that he exclusively is incapable of error in these matters, and that all that is moot in the singular case of he himself alone,
WRONG. At no time throughout the history of the Church has any official teaching been the sole product of one person. The whole Church is involved, under the superintendence of the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
rather all must whatever he himself exclusively says "with docility" "as Jesus speaking" BECAUSE Jesus said that, in exclusive reference to The Catholic Church.

Your whole apologetic depends on Jesus insisting that specificly THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is infallible, incapable of error, and whatever IT exclusively says is to be accepted with docility as He Himself speaking.
Well, yer close...but THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is incapable of teaching error on faith and morals exclusively apart from the Holy Spirit. It's a negative charism you can't seem to grasp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
Problem is: You can't find any verse that even so much as MENTIONS The Catholic Church - about anything, for anything, concerning anything, from Jesus or any Apostle.
WRONG.
I would refer you to "A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Gospel According to Saint Matthew" (The International Critical Commentary by Protestant scholars Dale C. Allison & W. D. Davies). After looking at 10 different proposed ways of interpreting the text, they agree that the PAPAL understanding as applying to St. Peter's authority is the most correct one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
Nor can you find anything about any teacher being infallible, incapable of error and unaccountable.
That is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
What you find is Jesus boldly and repeatedly warning us about false teachers, Jesus praising the Ephesian Christians for doing the opposite of what you suggest, praising them for regarding their teachers as accountable, for testing/arbitrating them, and declaring them to be false (Rev. 2:2 for this example).
Yes, He does. But you claim no one has any authority to declare a false teacher, except a mystical body of true believers with each of them having equal apostolic authority. In your ship, everyone is the captain except the captain. Just because YOU have no authority to declare anything false doesn't mean the Church Jesus founded has the same non-authority that you admit to having.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
Friend, if I posted that it is a matter of highest certainty and importance that I myself alone am the most handsome man in the world - because Jesus said so, I just have a hunch your first question would be: Where? GOOD question, too, since my whole apologetic depends on that point (if that, it IS that point). Now, if I responded, "Well, actually, I'm not once so much as even mentioned by Jesus" I just think you'd likely laugh your head off. And frankly, you should.
If I thought that is how Church authority worked, I would object too.
__________________
<img src=http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6171262410_63c439459b_m.jpg border=0 alt= />
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Feb 8, '10, 5:53 pm
kepha1's Avatar
kepha1 kepha1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2004
Posts: 1,398
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
Those men are not The Catholic Church.
Those men are not the Catholic Church according to your revisionist false definition. This is something you have dodged. You cannot not or will not accept our own definition of our own Church, and it has been proven repeatedly that the Catholic Church is inferred directly from Scripture. Since you insist so strongly that the Catholic Church is not in the Bible, when was it founded, and by whom? Consantine? Charlton Heston? You'll dodge this question because historical revisionism is too full of holes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
There's nothing that says they were infallible, incapable of error, unaccountable and exempt from norming.
Isa. 35:8, 54:13-17 - this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)

Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 - the early Church is identified as the "Way" prophesied in Isaiah 35:8 where fools will not err therein.

Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 - Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
In fact, most of Jesus' ministry was CORRECTING them - odd if they were incapable of being wrong. And didn't He call one of them "Satan?" Which one was that?
Mark 8:33 - non-Catholics sometimes use this verse to down play Peter's authority. This does not make sense. In this verse, Jesus rebukes Peter to show the import of His Messianic role as the Savior of humanity. Moreover, at this point, Peter was not yet the Pope with the keys, and Jesus did not rebuke Peter for his teaching. Jesus rebuked Peter for his lack of understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
And you forget that JESUS (God) established them. NEVER calling them infallible/unaccountable. But you have yet to show where Jesus so much as even MENTIONED The Catholic Church. About anything, for anything, concerning anything, in any regard - about infalliblity or anything else.
WRONG.
Is it really necessary to explain the difference between "terms" and concepts? Lots of "terms" are not found in the Bible. Like "Bible". "Ascension" is not in the Bible so should we throw out that concept too?

citations from http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html
__________________
<img src=http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6171262410_63c439459b_m.jpg border=0 alt= />
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Feb 8, '10, 5:53 pm
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2004
Posts: 11,454
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul c View Post
We have been having a long discussion on sola scripture with AmericanJosiah here: http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....41&postcount=1

He has steadfastly argued that there is no scriptural support for the Catholic Church's authority to hold and teach the one true Christian faith. His basic argument is that the words "Catholic Church" are never mentioned in scripture. He has challenged the Catholics to prove the the Catholic Church is actually the Apostolic Church, with the auhtority to bind and lose and to define authentic Christian doctrine.

Lets go to it...
The Catholic Church does not receive her authority from Scripture, but directly from Christ, the Church Christ established upon Peter in Matthew 16:18. Remember also that the pillar and foundation of TRUTH is the Church 1 Tim 3:15.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Feb 8, '10, 5:55 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Posts: 37,470
Religion: Catholic no adjectives
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul c View Post
He has steadfastly argued that there is no scriptural support for the Catholic Church's authority to hold and teach the one true Christian faith. His basic argument is that the words "Catholic Church" are never mentioned in scripture. ...
Lutheran church, Methodist Church, reformed church, Calvinist church, Mennonite, etc are mentioned in scripture I take it, at least in his translation of the bible.
__________________
Whatever the Lord pleases He does, on heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. Ps. 135
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Feb 8, '10, 5:59 pm
Erich Erich is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Posts: 3,369
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
SO by this logic you also accept that the Baptist church is mentioned in the NT?
"John the Baptist" does not refer to his denomination. Neither does "Joseph the Carpenter" or "Matthew the Tax Collector"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
The sentence in Acts makes no grammatical sense if you translate it with "universal" instead of "throughout all" as it refers to a specific, limited parcel of land-just a coincidence the same words are used, as there was no "catholic" brand at this point, just like John being referred to as a baptist before the secondary meaning evolved-the terms used in the first part of Acts are "followers of the Way" and "Christians".
The Catholic Church has to refer to all the believers of that time including where St Paul was. So it would also include Rome where St. Peter was, and Egypt where St Mark was, and India where St Thomas was, etc.

So, that "specific, limited parcel of land" of which you speak is really the whole known world at the time.
__________________
Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Feb 8, '10, 6:07 pm
kepha1's Avatar
kepha1 kepha1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2004
Posts: 1,398
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Where does the Catholic Church get its authority to teach

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
Without discussing the point Clement makes, where is he even claiming that The Catholic Church specifically and exclusively is infallible/unaccountable, and that whatever it says is simply to be accepted with docility? Yes, the ordained ordained - and the office continues to this day, in virtually every denomination (The Catholic Church no less or no more than any other), but this has nothing to do with teachers therefore being unaccountable for what they teach, particularly as doctrine.
I'm sorry you cannot read the quote by Clement when it is right in front of you. But here is another question for you to dodge: Clement was recognized throughout Christendom as the forth Pope, and the Apostle John was still alive, so why wasn't John the Pope?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanJosiah View Post
To the question, I don't know that The Catholic Church has a teaching function (how does an institutional entity teach anything????) but certainly CATHOLICS do. And all the Catholics here exercise that - so they must think that they do. I see nothing that says that only those registered in congregations legally affiliated with The Catholic Church (or any other denomination) may or may not teach (it seems a wide variety do here). The more relevant issue is: Are they accountable for the doctrines they teach? Was Jesus correct to repeatedly and boldly warn us about false teachers (never exempting The Catholic Church)? Was He right to praise the Ephesians Christians for regarding teachers as accountable, for testing/norming them, for arbitrating the issue and for declaring those teachers as false (Rev. 2:2)? That one MAY teach is not the same as Is ONE unaccountable for what is taught?
You are contradiction yourself. On what basis does anyone have to declare a teacher as false? And who are they accountable to? The committee that hired the minister?
__________________
<img src=http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6171262410_63c439459b_m.jpg border=0 alt= />
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8547Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Eungang
5208CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: UpUpAndAway
4434Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3871SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany
3844Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: DesertSister62
3409Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3302Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3231Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Rifester
3155For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Paulette60



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 7:32 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.