The confusion of Islam regarding the crucifixion of Jesus Christ

[Vile Servant]

Allah (allegedly) says in Chapter 4 verse 157 of the Qur'an referring to Jews and Christians:

And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)] 4:157 Hilal-Khan

There are a number of unanswered questions regarding this scenario of the crucifixion:

1. Muslims claim that Allah is all Truth and therefore does not deceive. Why then did Allah deceive the people as to the crucifixion of Jesus?

2. Who was the man ("fake" Jesus) killed in Jesus' place? The Muslim world is divided as to the man's identity. Some Muslims have conjectured that it might have been Judas, but they in fact do not know.

3. What was the "real" Jesus doing at the time of the crucifixion? Letting an innocent, unknown man be cruelly killed in his place while he does nothing to save him? This impugns the integrity and character of Jesus Christ, whom the Muslims themselves claim to hold in high esteem.

Can the Qur'an really be believed as the final, truthful and divinely inspired word of God?

[Pilgrimage]

Originally Posted by Vile Servant

Allah (allegedly) says in Chapter 4 verse 157 of the Qur'an referring to Jews and Christians:

And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)] 4:157 Hilal-Khan

There are a number of unanswered questions regarding this scenario of the crucifixion:

1. Muslims claim that Allah is all Truth and therefore does not deceive. Why then did Allah deceive the people as to the crucifixion of Jesus?

2. Who was the man ("fake" Jesus) killed in Jesus' place? The Muslim world is divided as to the man's identity. Some Muslims have conjectured that it might have been Judas, but they in fact do not know.

3. What was the "real" Jesus doing at the time of the crucifixion? Letting an innocent, unknown man be cruelly killed in his place while he does nothing to save him? This impugns the integrity and character of Jesus Christ, whom the Muslims themselves claim to hold in high esteem.

Can the Qur'an really be believed as the final, truthful and divinely inspired word of God?

Jesus revealed to the disciples, in the garden of Gethsemane, how they themselves could not be Him. There are things the leaders of the churches heard through The Gospel which Mohamed (and others) didn't. He was like the man who drew his sword in the Garden of Gethsemane, but not like the men who heard Christ's message to put the sword away.

The strength of their faith is in the lack of Gospel to their ears and an understanding of Christ's love.

God bless

[thistle]

Originally Posted by Vile Servant

Allah (allegedly) says in Chapter 4 verse 157 of the Qur'an referring to Jews and Christians:

And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)] 4:157 Hilal-Khan

There are a number of unanswered questions regarding this scenario of the crucifixion:

1. Muslims claim that Allah is all Truth and therefore does not deceive. Why then did Allah deceive the people as to the crucifixion of Jesus?

2. Who was the man ("fake" Jesus) killed in Jesus' place? The Muslim world is divided as to the man's identity. Some Muslims have conjectured that it might have been Judas, but they in fact do not know.

3. What was the "real" Jesus doing at the time of the crucifixion? Letting an innocent, unknown man be cruelly killed in his place while he does nothing to save him? This impugns the integrity and character of Jesus Christ, whom the Muslims themselves claim to hold in high esteem.

Can the Qur'an really be believed as the final, truthful and divinely inspired word of God?

Islam is not just confused. Its downright FALSE. Anyone denying the divinity of Christ is obviously under the influence of satan.

[Pilgrimage]

Originally Posted by thistle

Islam is not just confused. Its downright FALSE. Anyone denying the divinity of Christ is obviously under the influence of satan.

To them it's not false because they are not evangelised to. To them it is a truth, but we know that it is yet to be put away. To them it's a reflection of their soul, and thus a truth to them. This is the crux, the follower of Christ has to take the hand of a person eager to know God and say, not this way, try the Way of Christ, He is the truth. Saying it's false is just not enough.

God bless
( It is in the wombs of women that all men are knitted together by God; it is from woman's womb and lips that men hear their first sounds. It is from a mother that they first taste unconditional love.)

[thistle]

Originally Posted by Pilgrimage

To them it's not false because they are not evangelised to. To them it is a truth, but we know that it is yet to be put away. To them it's a reflection of their soul, and thus a truth to them. This is the crux, the follower of Christ has to take the hand of a person eager to know God and say, not this way, try the Way of Christ, He is the truth. Saying it's false is just not enough.

God bless
( It is in the wombs of women that all men are knitted together by God; it is from woman's womb and lips that men hear their first sounds. It is from a mother that they first taste unconditional love.)

Its almost unheard of for a muslim to convert because of the violent and oppressive nature of islam. Violence will also be used against anyone trying to convert a muslim especially in a muslim country.
It is forbidden to convert on pain of punishment which ranges from being disowned by family to jail to execution.
The most any of us can do is pray for them because you won't get physically close enough to talk about Christianity and try to convert.
Islam is one of the major evils in the world.

[Joe Kelley]

Originally Posted by thistle

Islam is not just confused. Its downright FALSE. Anyone denying the divinity of Christ is obviously under the influence of satan.

I think the Church strongly disagrees with your condemnation of the Jews.

[Pilgrimage]

Originally Posted by thistle

Its almost unheard of for a muslim to convert because of the violent and oppressive nature of islam. Violence will also be used against anyone trying to convert a muslim especially in a muslim country.
It is forbidden to convert on pain of punishment which ranges from being disowned by family to jail to execution.
The most any of us can do is pray for them because you won't get physically close enough to talk about Christianity and try to convert.
Islam is one of the major evils in the world.

As Christian's the best thing we can do is to live Christ and our faith as a witness. It is in doing this we are effectively taking their hand and leading them away. As I have said, the strength of their faith is in the weakness of our own. Not that Christianity is weak, but apathy and loss of Spiritual direction leaves a platform for the growth of other faiths.

The best people to lead Muslims away from Islam are those who have practiced the Muslim faith and have come to know Christ personally. God will have given them tools and gifts that we don't have to evangelise.


http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/watch.asp


God bless

[thistle]

Originally Posted by Joe Kelley

I think the Church strongly disagrees with your condemnation of the Jews.

All who reject Christ condemn themselves. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church or do you disagree with the Church teaching on that?

[Joe Kelley]

Originally Posted by thistle

All who reject Christ condemn themselves. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church or do you disagree with the Church teaching on that?

Are you sure you understand Church teaching on that? See Catechism of the Catholic Church pp836-848, especially

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337 848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

[thistle]

Originally Posted by Joe Kelley

Are you sure you understand Church teaching on that? See Catechism of the Catholic Church pp836-848, especially

I am not talking about those in invincible ignorance. Not knowing about Christ and his Church through no fault of their own is not rejecting Christ.

I am talking about those who know about Christ but reject him as God and also reject his Church. Such people condemn themselves if they die unrepentent.