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  #31  
Old Aug 14, '07, 5:57 am
mc366 mc366 is offline
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Default Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

Since some of you seem to know about Fr. Rohr's dissenting views, would you know anything about John (Jack) Shea? In his sermon on Sunday, our pastor said that John Shea is his favorite theologian and story teller. He then quoted one of his stories and talked about Shea's ideas on God.
Since the theological views of our pastor are at best suspect by some of us in the pews, a couple of people asked me if I had heard of John Shea (not to be confused with Mark Shea-a solid Catholic author).
Do any of you know anything about him?

Thanks!
  #32  
Old Aug 16, '07, 1:19 pm
Seagirt Seagirt is offline
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Talking Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some of the greatest saints in history very concerned with the salvation of their own souls? And didn't that idea motivate them go on to live very selfless lives that have had wonderful consequences on the Christian world that are still experienced today? I don't think I agree with Fr. Rohr on this one.
Well, i think that valid points are being made by both you (Jim ) and Fr. Rohr. Western Individualism is all about me, me ,me. How can i get saved, spiritual, climb the ladder to God, etc. Maybe we have gone over to this side more than is needed. Would " the Self " that modern psychology talks about make any sense to St. Paul. ? Possibly not. Rohr always makes some valid points.... tho' most of us on this board would not agree with him on a large portion of his current writings. When you say.. " salvation of their own souls ".... maybe when you lose yourself for somebody else, thats when you are really living. The gospel really is scandalous.!
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  #33  
Old Aug 16, '07, 3:16 pm
DJim DJim is offline
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Default Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mc366 View Post
Since some of you seem to know about Fr. Rohr's dissenting views, would you know anything about John (Jack) Shea? In his sermon on Sunday, our pastor said that John Shea is his favorite theologian and story teller. He then quoted one of his stories and talked about Shea's ideas on God.
Since the theological views of our pastor are at best suspect by some of us in the pews, a couple of people asked me if I had heard of John Shea (not to be confused with Mark Shea-a solid Catholic author).
Do any of you know anything about him?

Thanks!
John Shea, If I'm not mistaken, is a former priest of the Archdiocese of Chicago, and a longtime Catholic author.

I'm inclined to say that, having heard him speak, he's a good speaker and storyteller. I am not inclined to think that his "theology" is a 100 percent match with the Magisterium.

Others may have more info...

DJim
  #34  
Old Aug 16, '07, 9:58 pm
stbruno stbruno is offline
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Default Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

I heard him speak at a conference...and he put me to sleep...I tried to stay awake but he was so boring in person.
  #35  
Old Jan 26, '08, 10:20 am
bhjones84 bhjones84 is offline
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Default Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

Quote from AServantofGod:

"I don't know about anybody else out there, but the enneagram provides the most accurate view of personality types that I've ever seen including the Myers-Briggs and the method which uses Sanguine, Choleric, Meloncholy & Phlegmatic."

Here is a quote from the Vatican document, "Jesus Christ the Bearer of the Water of Life: A Christian Reflection on the 'New Age':

"We cannot delude ourselves that this (New Age Spirituality) will lead toward a renewal of religion. It is only a new way of practising gnosticism Ė that attitude of the spirit that, in the name of a profound knowledge of God, results in distorting His Word and replacing it with purely human words. Gnosticism never completely abandoned the realm of Christianity. Instead, it has always existed side by side with Christianity, sometimes taking the shape of a philosophical movement, but more often assuming the characteristics of a religion or a para-religion in distinct, if not declared, conflict with all that is essentially ChristianĒ.(6) An example of this can be seen in the enneagram, the nine-type tool for character analysis, which when used as a means of spiritual growth introduces an ambiguity in the doctrine and the life of the Christian faith." (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/po...ew-age_en.html)
  #36  
Old Jan 26, '08, 3:15 pm
Gottle of Geer Gottle of Geer is offline
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Default Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spangler1982 View Post
Here's a quote by him I found very challenging (emphasis in bold mine):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeF7V6PYFqE (at 1:30)

ďIf I had to name the really darkest side of where Western Christianity is at and why it canít get Ďití; why it canít find its power and its potential; I would say that more than anything else itís because of the lie of individualism. Thatís precisely what religion tells you youíre not. . . .[quotes a section from Thomas Mertonís Disputed Questions] . . . The big cover for it-and weíve fed into it-is this business about getting my private soul saved. Me going to heaven. Did it ever strike you that thatís about the best disguised narcissism you can think of? And weíve let centuries of Catholics and Protestants get away with it. Thinking that thatís even first level enlightenment! Thinking thatís even first level spirituality or transformation. The ego, the private self can be totally in charge, totally in control, and worried about its self-securing, self-validating self-legitimating level.

Thatís the lie at the core of western individualistic Christianity. And why I want to say that the doctrine of the Body of Christ, the experience of participatory union with God and with one another is the trump card, the political trump card of western Christianity, which it has yet to throw on the table. Because weíre trying to solve this whole thing out of an individualistic ethos, of getting individual people saved, individual people thinking good about themselves, and we donít realize that the very person that weíre dealing with there is outside of what I would call the Trinitarian flow, where you inherently know that itís not about me, that my life is not about me. That Iím being used. I am participating in something bigger than my self.Ē
## Rather well said

If Christ had meant us to be saved purely as individuals - what is the use of the Church ? It's an organic society of members - not a pile of disconnected limbs. He's quite right to find fault with individualism - in no way is that a denial of the importance of the individual. It's a warning against an unhealthy lack of balance that privileges the individual by ignoring others & their salvation. And that is is what priests are meant to do - correct unhealthy over-emphases that lead to forgetting other aspects of a fact that are no less important than the one that is receiving too much attention.
  #37  
Old Jan 26, '08, 5:43 pm
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MarcoPolo MarcoPolo is offline
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Default Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

A friend of mine recommended him to me last year, so I downloaded several of his sermons. They were all recent, from 2007...in I think every one, he went on a soapbox against the war in Iraq. Whether or not he was right, I found him a little obsessed with the matter. He kept insisting that dissenters against the war have a right to speak out. I didn't know what he was talking about.
  #38  
Old Jan 26, '08, 10:52 pm
bhjones84 bhjones84 is offline
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Default Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

Rohr's comments about individualism "as the darkest problem of Western Christianity" is correct. Pope Benedict XVI noted in his Regensburg Address that the problem facing Christianity, most especially Catholicism, is the dehellenization of doctrine. This dehellenization has crept into Catholic theology in recent years, but, as the Pope noted, it all stemmed from this individualistic approach that was the result of the Reformation. The individual salvation becomes the most important thing because we have done away with the speculative intellect, and said that only the practical intellect matters. So matters of truth or religion become solely conditioned by the individual person. This can lead to such modern sayings as "What Would Jesus Do" (WWJD) and we never ask "well why did Jesus do these things." This is how Immanuel Kant approached theology and declared that Jesus was really just a great moral prophet and nothing more. For Kant, the message of the Gospel was reduced strictly to a life of ethics, social justice, etc. When we focus on those aspects of the Gospel as the most important, we miss the very person with whom we are called into a relationship with because we miss who He really is (The Logos; The Word made flesh; the Second Person of the Holy Trinity; God Himself). While I think Rohr seems to be on the right page in this matter, I do not think he sufficiently breaks down this current of thought the way Pope Benedict does. Rohr does not mention the communal aspect of the Church's saving mission (as the Pope quite frequently wrote about as Cardinal). Bishop Fulton Sheen said that "if you want to save your own soul, save someone elses." Rohr does have a few good points on some issues, but it is very evident that he has dissented from the Church in most areas.
  #39  
Old Mar 19, '10, 10:21 am
tskrobacz tskrobacz is offline
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Default Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

The question posed here seeks a black or white, yes or not answer...the very dualistic thinking that Fr. Rohr teaches is at the root of a righteousness that is very low level Christianity and the cause of much suffering. If we are to aspire to higher level of consciousness then we must all be open to seeing the God given nature of all of creation and accept that excepting God himself, all of creation has what we perceive to be both light and darkness.
  #40  
Old Mar 19, '10, 1:09 pm
Seagirt Seagirt is offline
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Lightbulb Re: Is Fr. Richard Rohr a Dissenter?

think Rohr seems to be on the right page in this matter, I do not think he sufficiently breaks down this current of thought the way Pope Benedict does. Rohr does not mention the communal aspect of the Church's saving mission (as the Pope quite frequently wrote about as Cardinal). Bishop Fulton Sheen said that "if you want to save your own soul, save someone elses." Rohr does have a few good points on some issues, but it is very evident that he has dissented from the Church in most areas

-- Yes, I run hot and cold with Fr. Richard Rohr. I liked his earlier tapes from the 90's. Also agree with his " Second Half of Life " theory. Some of his current writing seem too new agey and/or Protestant in outlook sometimes, and I disagree with him that the Lot story in the Old Testament is about Hospitality---- I am sure its about Sin and Sodomy. I researched it extensively.
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