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  #1  
Old Mar 29, '10, 8:57 pm
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Default Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

Couldn't think where to put this so, since it is more "technical", I decided to put it here.

We've all seen crucifixes showing nails in the palms and also ones with nails in the wrists.
I've heard that physically the nails would not have held in the plms but would have torn out, but then I also seem to recall someone conducting a test that showed that nails in the palms would not pull out.

The image on the shroud of Turin I believe has the nail holes in the wrists.

Anyway - I'm wondering if there is consensus among Church scholars as to which is more likely? I have a specific reason for asking.

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  #2  
Old Mar 29, '10, 9:58 pm
cyberstriker11 cyberstriker11 is offline
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

Hi how are you?
I'm not completely sure, but i am rather certain they were in his wrists, because of those two reasons you said. If the nails were in his hand, there would be more chance for a nail to tear out...It may not happen, but there is a higher chance, and the tissue there is much thinner than the hand.

Also, the Shroud of Turin also suggests that they were in his wrist, So I think it was in his wrists
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  #3  
Old Mar 29, '10, 9:58 pm
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

I've pondered the same question.
In university I heard that the nails could not have been in the palms because the palms could not help support a body's weight.
Most of the images I see tend to indicate a historical belief in nails in the palms.

Does the stigmata hold a clue?
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  #4  
Old Mar 30, '10, 3:05 am
alitaptap alitaptap is offline
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

I’m interested to know the answer. Also, I am curious to know if a nail used on the body of Jesus is rusty or not.
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  #5  
Old Mar 30, '10, 3:59 am
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reginator View Post
I've pondered the same question.
In university I heard that the nails could not have been in the palms because the palms could not help support a body's weight.
Most of the images I see tend to indicate a historical belief in nails in the palms.

Does the stigmata hold a clue?
This is actually not correct. That conclusion was the result of flawed experiments in the past.
Read the book of Dr Zugibe called The Crucifixion of Jesus. He has been on EWTN. He has done experiments which prove that nails through the palm at the base of the thumb can support the weight of a man up to 200 pounds, without ropes or the feet being nailed. Of course in the case of Jesus we know his feet were nailed so it would have been easy for him to have nails in the palms and feet without his hands being torn. Also remember the Romans were experienced in this form of execution and would know exactly where to put the nails.
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  #6  
Old Mar 30, '10, 4:42 am
Hesychios Hesychios is offline
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Smile Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

It was probably the wrists.

These guys weren't fooling around, they had a merciless, tasteless job to do and would have wanted to be sure to get it done quickly and without a hitch.

If a person fell off because of their shoddy workmanship there would be nothing but trouble for them.
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  #7  
Old Mar 30, '10, 7:28 am
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

I read a book on this subject many years ago, but for the life of me I can't remember the title or author. It presented several arguments against many aspects of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection followed by rebuttal by various apologists. I don't like to state information without sources, but perhaps someone will recognize the book I speak of.

I remember one skeptic stating that Christ's body could not be supported if nailed through the hands. The rebuttal was that the arms could have also been tied to the beam, as was crucifixion was sometimes practiced. Another argument was that the Greek word translated "hand" meant both the hand AND the arm (or perhaps forearm, I don't remember).
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  #8  
Old Mar 30, '10, 11:37 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alitaptap View Post
I’m interested to know the answer. Also, I am curious to know if a nail used on the body of Jesus is rusty or not.
Well, it could have been. After all, it was common practice to reuse nails and crosses over and over again until no longer serviceable. Iron was, after all, expensive and there were areas where wood was scarce.

Now, according to popular knowledge, based on the experiments conducted by Dr. Pierre Barbet, the palms could not support the weight of the body; hence, one of the remaining alternatives are the wrists - a fact which is apparenttly confirmed by the Shroud. However, it is hard to be precisely sure where the nails went in Jesus' case because the Shroud (presupposing that the Man of the Shroud is Christ) only shows the exit, not the entrance of the wound - and only one of the hands at that. Hence, Dr. Frederick Zugibe proposed another location: the upper part of the palms. He believes that the nail entered through the upper region of the palm, but was driven in an angle that it came out in the wrist area.
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  #9  
Old Mar 30, '10, 11:53 am
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

Dr. Pierre Barbet (French) did experiments with cadavers in the 1930's. He found that nails through the palms would not support a body on the cross, but nails through the wrists would. He wrote a short book, called (I believe) "A Doctor at Calvary", which described the crucifixion based on the results of his studies in physiology, the Gospels, and the Shroud of Turin. It is a very, very moving and gruesome depiction of what a crucifixion was like, and explains why nails through the wrists were used by the Romans.

There is also the evidence of a skeleton that was found (in Palestine, I believe) and had the marks of crucifixion. It shows that the nails were driven through the wrists.

I have read other works by physicians (including coroners) who agree that crucifixion nails were likely through the wrists. I am not familiar with Zugibe or his premise but could see how that is a possibility as well. It seems unlikely that the spikes were nailed only through the fleshy part of the hand, in any case.
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  #10  
Old Mar 30, '10, 12:56 pm
Debra C Debra C is offline
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

The theory that was put forth that they could not have been in the palms because the palms could not support the weight of the body has been disproven, especially when it is taken into account that the feet were also nailed.

The Shroud of Turin shows the nail in the base of the palm, near the top of the wrist. We do not know where the nails went for certain, and have no way of finding out. The only archaeological evidence of crucifixion that has been found that I am aware of is a heel bone with a nail in it, which at least lends credibility to the idea that the feet were also nailed as the Bible says. However, even such a find proves little, because we do not know how consistent the placement of nails, the type of cross used, etc. were across the years of Roman use of crucifixion.

I believe in the Shroud personally, but it remains impossible to certify whether or not this is a true relic. However, the carbon dating that previous "disproved" it has been called into question by the fact that the corner where the samples were taken from may have been repaired by a reweaving technique using relatively modern cotton fibers intermingled with the original ones. One of the dating project's original scientists confirmed that this is a real possibility shortly before he passed away.
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  #11  
Old Mar 31, '10, 4:30 am
alitaptap alitaptap is offline
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

How about the possibility of the combination of rope and nail when Jesus was crucified for all our sins since His palms could not support the weight of His body?
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  #12  
Old Mar 31, '10, 5:02 am
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

The anatomical wrist (including all 8 wrist bones) is located in the heel of the palm of the hand. A wristwatch is actually worn on the distal part of the forearm.

One theory is that the nails went through the space of destot, which is between the two rows of wrist bones in the heel of the palm of the hand.
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  #13  
Old Mar 31, '10, 6:20 am
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

OK.

Thanks to all who have participated. It appears that there is no clear consensus on where the nails were put.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the Gospel accounts that clearly say the "Hands" (Jn 20:20 and 27).


Now the reason that I asked the question in the first place (and someone alluded to it earlier) had to do with the "Stigmata" and those who have recieved it.

Where does the Stigmata show up? Is it always the same? I believe that Padre Pio's was in His palms, How about others?

If the Stigmata is "The wonds of Christ" I would expect there to be a consistancy here.
The Shroud seems to show the wrists. Padre Pio's the Palms.

Insights???

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  #14  
Old Mar 31, '10, 6:26 am
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRKH View Post
OK.

Thanks to all who have participated. It appears that there is no clear consensus on where the nails were put.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the Gospel accounts that clearly say the "Hands" (Jn 20:20 and 27).


Now the reason that I asked the question in the first place (and someone alluded to it earlier) had to do with the "Stigmata" and those who have recieved it.

Where does the Stigmata show up? Is it always the same? I believe that Padre Pio's was in His palms, How about others?

If the Stigmata is "The wonds of Christ" I would expect there to be a consistancy here.
The Shroud seems to show the wrists. Padre Pio's the Palms.

Insights???

Peace
James
It would seem that legitimate stigmata always occurs in the hands, feet, side or brow. Based on this, and the constant teaching of the Church I would say Christ was nailed through the hands, not the wrists.

As for the physics of the act, it should be noted it was typical to bind about the writs with rope (as is depicted for Christ frequently) in order to ensure the victim stays on the Cross. Here is a Catholic.org article about stigmata:

http://www.catholic.org/saints/stigmata.php
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  #15  
Old Mar 31, '10, 7:09 am
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Default Re: Location of Nails in Jesus - Palms or Wrists.

Well, it is possible that He was tied with a rope. Look at the image:


The graphics of the sanctuary are adapted, with very minor revision, from an illustration by Tom Dunbebin.

(1) The Sacrifice of the Lamb
(2) The Brazen Altar of Burnt Offerings
(3) The Laver
(4) The Golden Candlestick
(5) 1st Apartment: The Holy place
(6) The Golden Altar of Incense
(7) The Table of Showbread
(8) The Ark of the Testimony of God containing the 10 commandments
(9) 2nd Apartment The Holy of Holies

Even though it is not in the Bible, we know the Jews had a place where they tied and sacrificed the lamb (number (1) in the image). Jesus being tied on the cross like the lamb on that wood could be possible. After all, He represents the lamb, so if the lamb was tied on a wood and sacrificed, why wouldn't Jesus? It adds up, in my opinion. It may have not happened, but I see no reason for it not to have happened.

So if He had His hands tied, then where was He nailed seems irrelevant to me.

When I refer to Jesus being tied, I refer to His hands being tied.
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