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  #1  
Old Apr 10, '10, 5:17 am
CPA2 CPA2 is offline
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Default It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

(Information based on "Priests For Life")

If you believe in “abortion rights,” and knowingly and willfully vote for a candidate who promises to protect those “rights,” you have committed a sin. This is especially true for Catholics who have 2,000 years of Church teaching and tradition to back them up (Church’s teaching in the 2nd century). A voter who votes for a candidate who supports abortion has intentionally and deliberately helped someone who promotes a violent and destructive activity. That vote is similar in seriousness to participating in a pro-abortion rally, or writing an editorial that supports abortion.

These are the moral implications of voting. I once belonged to the Democrat Party, then I joined the Republican Party, and I now belong to the Constitution Party. However, my moral obligation is to keep out candidates who support abortion, usually Democrats; therefore, I often vote for Republicans who oppose abortion.

We can commit sin in the voting booth. Everything that we say or do either affirms or denies moral law. We are either getting closer to God, or farther away from Him. Everything that we say or do either strengthens us in virtue or enslaves us in vice. You cannot sing God’s praises in the choir and then say that you believe in abortion.
  #2  
Old Apr 10, '10, 6:33 am
Major Tom Major Tom is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPA2 View Post
(Information based on "Priests For Life")

If you believe in “abortion rights,” and knowingly and willfully vote for a candidate who promises to protect those “rights,” you have committed a sin. This is especially true for Catholics who have 2,000 years of Church teaching and tradition to back them up (Church’s teaching in the 2nd century). A voter who votes for a candidate who supports abortion has intentionally and deliberately helped someone who promotes a violent and destructive activity. That vote is similar in seriousness to participating in a pro-abortion rally, or writing an editorial that supports abortion.

These are the moral implications of voting. I once belonged to the Democrat Party, then I joined the Republican Party, and I now belong to the Constitution Party. However, my moral obligation is to keep out candidates who support abortion, usually Democrats; therefore, I often vote for Republicans who oppose abortion.

We can commit sin in the voting booth. Everything that we say or do either affirms or denies moral law. We are either getting closer to God, or farther away from Him. Everything that we say or do either strengthens us in virtue or enslaves us in vice. You cannot sing God’s praises in the choir and then say that you believe in abortion.
If the Church were to officially take and announce this policy, I wonder if it's tax-exempt status should be reconsidered.
  #3  
Old Apr 10, '10, 6:55 am
sedonaman sedonaman is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPA2 View Post
(Information based on "Priests For Life")

If you believe in “abortion rights,” and knowingly and willfully vote for a candidate who promises to protect those “rights,” you have committed a sin. ...
This might not necessarily be true. Suppose your only choices were candidates who promised to protect those “rights” ?
  #4  
Old Apr 10, '10, 6:59 am
CPA2 CPA2 is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

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Originally Posted by sedonaman View Post
This might not necessarily be true. Suppose your only choices were candidates who promised to protect those “rights” ?
Are you looking for a loophole?
  #5  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:02 am
Doc Keele Doc Keele is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPA2 View Post
Are you looking for a loophole?
"loophole"?
it's a very sensible point - would you like to respond to it?
  #6  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:04 am
sedonaman sedonaman is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
If the Church were to officially take and announce this policy, I wonder if it's tax-exempt status should be reconsidered.
Nothing is ever easy. This is from the IRS:

Political Campaign Activity – Churches and Religious Organizations

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.

Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise tax.

Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including the presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity.

In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not constitute prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner. On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that: (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

Substantial Lobbying Activity

In general, no organization, including a church, may qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). An IRC section 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.

Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive offices), or by the public in a referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.

A church or religious organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.

Churches and religious organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, churches may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.

Measuring Lobbying Activity

Substantial part test. Whether a church’s or religious organization’s attempts to influence legislation constitute a substantial part of its overall activities is determined on the basis of all the pertinent facts and circumstances in each case. The IRS considers a variety of factors, including the time devoted (by both compensated and volunteer workers) and the expenditures devoted by the organization to the activity, when determining whether the lobbying activity is substantial. Churches must use the substantial part test since they are not eligible to use the expenditure test described in the next section.

See the rest here http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf.
  #7  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:06 am
sedonaman sedonaman is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPA2 View Post
Are you looking for a loophole?
Why do you answer a question with a question?
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  #8  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:23 am
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estesbob estesbob is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedonaman View Post
This might not necessarily be true. Suppose your only choices were candidates who promised to protect those “rights” ?

The Church says you can vote for the canidate who would do "less harm as far as abotion is concerned.

The last Presidential election was a good examole. Obama supported taxpayer funded abortions on demand with no restrictions. McCain opposed abortions except in cases of rape and incest. Neither poistion is in accordace with Church teaching but a Catholic could , in good conscience, vote for McCain but not Obama.

As to whether voting for a pro-abortion canidate is a sin no one can ever tell if anothers actions are a sin. The best we can say is voting for a Pro-abortion canidate is against the teachings of the Church. If a person has a properly formed conscience they would never do it.
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We ought to speak, shout out against injustices, with confidence and without fear. We proclaim the principles of the Church, the reign of love, without forgetting that it is also a reign of justice.

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  #9  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:28 am
Major Tom Major Tom is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPA2 View Post
(Information based on "Priests For Life")
If you believe in “abortion rights,” and knowingly and willfully vote for a candidate who promises to protect those “rights,” you have committed a sin. This is especially true for Catholics who have 2,000 years of Church teaching and tradition to back them up (Church’s teaching in the 2nd century). A voter who votes for a candidate who supports abortion has intentionally and deliberately helped someone who promotes a violent and destructive activity. That vote is similar in seriousness to participating in a pro-abortion rally, or writing an editorial that supports abortion.

These are the moral implications of voting. I once belonged to the Democrat Party, then I joined the Republican Party, and I now belong to the Constitution Party. However, my moral obligation is to keep out candidates who support abortion, usually Democrats; therefore, I often vote for Republicans who oppose abortion.

We can commit sin in the voting booth. Everything that we say or do either affirms or denies moral law. We are either getting closer to God, or farther away from Him. Everything that we say or do either strengthens us in virtue or enslaves us in vice. You cannot sing God’s praises in the choir and then say that you believe in abortion.

I can understand the attractiveness of a bumper sticker ideology that boils the issue down to a nice fine edge. However, I think that in practice it is much more nuanced. Consider the wide range of things that politicians have influence on: judicial appointments, departmental appointments, etc. If I'm a politician and have to vote up or down on a Federal judge, say, and I can't glean exactly how they feel on this issue.... how do I vote? To fully implement your wish, you would want a politician that never appointed a government employee who supported abortion, wouldn't you? How else to implement this other than stating publicly and unequivocally "You don't work for the government if you favor abortion".

I suggest that some of the politicians that you have voted for in the past have thus complicited in abortion to some degree.

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't care about this, or that it shouldn't be a factor in voting, but I think that the issue is much more nuanced than you suggest. And people run the risk of running off half-cocked, thinking they done their moral duty, when there is much more to the issue.
  #10  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:29 am
Doc Keele Doc Keele is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

If Catholic were obliged to vote solely according to the issue of abortion, then they would so open to manipulation....
there are other things to take into consideration, not just abortion
  #11  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:31 am
Doc Keele Doc Keele is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
I can understand the attractiveness of a bumper sticker ideology that boils the issue down to a nice fine edge.
I love this statement, I may use this quote in future. The rest of the post is good too
  #12  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:35 am
Major Tom Major Tom is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
As to whether voting for a pro-abortion canidate is a sin no one can ever tell if anothers actions are a sin. The best we can say is voting for a Pro-abortion canidate is against the teachings of the Church. If a person has a properly formed conscience they would never do it.
Glad to see you acknowledge the nuance in the issue.

And if that candidate supported ending a war... which kills people... that would certainly be relevant to the issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
If a person has a properly formed conscience they would never do it.
I blanch at this. I have no problem with your post, as it is thoughtfully copmposed and should be taken as such, but it is also the kind of statement that can come across as arrogantly morally superior to a lot of people. Especially when, in your previous paragraph, you stated that neither candidate had policies in strict accordance with the church, and that, in good conscience you could vote for either....
  #13  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:36 am
Major Tom Major Tom is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Keele View Post
I love this statement, I may use this quote in future. The rest of the post is good too
You made my day!
  #14  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:39 am
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estesbob estesbob is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

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Originally Posted by Doc Keele View Post
If Catholic were obliged to vote solely according to the issue of abortion, then they would so open to manipulation....
there are other things to take into consideration, not just abortion

A Catholic is not required to vote for a canidate merey because they are pro-life. Howver we can not vote for a cnaidate who is pro-abortion. No issue or comination of issues rises to the level of abortion.

"Christians have a "grave obligation of conscience not to cooperate formally in practices which, even if permitted by civil legislation, are contrary to God’s law. Indeed, from the moral standpoint, it is never licit to cooperate formally in evil. [...] This cooperation can never be justified either by invoking respect for the freedom of others or by appealing to the fact that civil law permits it or requires it" (no. 74).

3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."


Pope Benedict XVI


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We ought to speak, shout out against injustices, with confidence and without fear. We proclaim the principles of the Church, the reign of love, without forgetting that it is also a reign of justice.

Miguel Agustin Pro
  #15  
Old Apr 10, '10, 7:41 am
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estesbob estesbob is offline
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Default Re: It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

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Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
Glad to see you acknowledge the nuance in the issue.

And if that candidate supported ending a war... which kills people... that would certainly be relevant to the issue?



.
Only if his opponent was even more pro-abortion than he was or both canidates were pro-life. The Pope specifically said that support for war does not rise to the level of support for abortion. I have elsewhere in this thread posted the apllicable quote from Pope Benedict.
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We ought to speak, shout out against injustices, with confidence and without fear. We proclaim the principles of the Church, the reign of love, without forgetting that it is also a reign of justice.

Miguel Agustin Pro
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