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  #1  
Old May 12, '05, 4:10 pm
Pro-Life_Teen Pro-Life_Teen is offline
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Angry 'Catholic' Response

Victoria wrote:

"Yup, that's right. No abortions or contraceptives.

And it makes sense, if you let me speak. No artifical contraceptives. We're allowed to abstain from
sex during fertile times to avoid becoming pregnant. It's called Natural-Family Planning and it's 99% accurate. Much better then a condom at only 60-80 and that's with spermicide.

Plus 'The Pill' can also cause abortions.

And, not that you guys care, it's sinful. Just like masturbation is, and homosexual acts. (You can be gay and fine with God, just don't fall for the temptation)

We're not homophobic, we don't have to have 10 kids a family.

And there's no population crisis! We can take all the people in the world and shove them into Jacksonville Fl. and we'd still have elbow room. Chill, we're not going to starve."

+++

Dearie, you must be from a wonderful planet where fantasy trumps reality. Please see someone for your "condition", because there are far more Catholics who make up their own mind rather than listen to an old impotent fart who never even had
sex (or so he claims). Leave the family planning to the individual, and keep your brain-washed propaganda to yourself.

Contraceptives are a necessity, as is immunization against communicable desease. If the Pope says stop seeing your dentist, do you listen to the quackery, or do you follow common sense? Go on and "hold it in" when you're ovulating, and I hope you don't make a mistake with your calandar, and when you're late, congratulations; another child brought into this world due to ignorance.

I hate abortions, but people who refuse the benefits of contraceptives don't help at all. WITH contraceptives abortions can be kept at a minimum. Without contraceptives, the exact opposite will happen. Blind faith doesn't heal ignorance, and society needs common sense more than blind faith.

Catholics are not helping today's society one bit. Their narrow-minded fixations on life and death matters is dangerous and counter-productive. Many Catholics agree with me on this, only those uppety know-everything-better folks who believe they are sent from God to preach the ******** via propaganda go over the top. Congratulations, you're responsible for turning the whole world against you. Worse than Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics have **** on the brain.

Abortions will not go down with warped anti-contraception teachings. Perhaps AIDS can be faught better if no more condoms were used? Idiots for working against the cure. Fools for believing anything an aging religious guru hands down from his dressing room. Maybe the guy can change the rules, so those old gay guys can switch from dresses to pants. It would make them less obvious!


How do I respond to people who think like this? I mean, should I leave them be, or try to help? Anything I say is turned against me... 'Dearie' Hmph.
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  #2  
Old May 12, '05, 4:17 pm
vern humphrey vern humphrey is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Life_Teen
Abortions will not go down with warped anti-contraception teachings. Perhaps AIDS can be faught better if no more condoms were used? Idiots for working against the cure. Fools for believing anything an aging religious guru hands down from his dressing room. Maybe the guy can change the rules, so those old gay guys can switch from dresses to pants. It would make them less obvious!

How do I respond to people who think like this? I mean, should I leave them be, or try to help? Anything I say is turned against me... 'Dearie' Hmph.
Instead of wading into all this, let me make two points:

1. Condoms are only marginally effective in preventing STDs, including AIDS. In fact, there was a recent study by the Center for Disease Control which verified that -- and it became a political foot ball -- "Don't tell people that!! They'll stop using condoms!" ( I suppose the CDC's philosophy is "Better to lie to them and let them die.")

2. Abortions are not related to lack of contraception. Anyone can walk into any drug store and buy condoms and what-have-you. High school girls can get the pill without parental knowledge or consent. And we STILL have some 4,000 abortions a day!
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  #3  
Old May 12, '05, 4:21 pm
Lisa4Catholics Lisa4Catholics is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Hello Victoria Are you on the site again? If you are posting where I think you are let me know and I will go over ther and get Rayne,Felicity,and Jlw
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  #4  
Old May 12, '05, 4:25 pm
Pro-Life_Teen Pro-Life_Teen is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa4Catholics
Hello Victoria Are you on the site again? If you are posting where I think you are let me know and I will go over ther and get Rayne,Felicity,and Jlw
Yeah, I was looking around and I replied. Same site... They'd gag if they knew I was fifteen, call me insane. No wait, they already did, I have a 'condition' ... ^^
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  #5  
Old May 12, '05, 4:28 pm
yochumjy yochumjy is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Well, don't accept the shotgun approach. Pick one thing and go with that. Pick out the contraception arguement, and one point, say the "contraceptives are a necessity" and go from there. Let them know that just because society has brainwashed everyone to think that personal desires trump God's wishes, that doesn't mean God has bought in on their thought process. Ask them WHY are contraceptives a necessity. They don't stop disiese, they just (in some cases) slow it down.

And let them know you aren't their "dearie"
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  #6  
Old May 12, '05, 4:44 pm
Shinobu Shinobu is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Wow, they are full of hate. You can keep trying but as a 15 year old, you don't need to subject yourself to such garbage.

It's terrible how he/she basically equated childbirth to "having a disease" that needed to be vaccinated against. This person didn't back up with any facts, rather they resorted to name-calling and mud slinging.
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  #7  
Old May 12, '05, 6:10 pm
mommy mommy is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Contraceptives are equal to a dental check up? How far will these people go to rationalize their agendas?
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  #8  
Old May 12, '05, 6:46 pm
jlw jlw is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Victoria, I replied to QuizMaster. Picked her rant apart.

"Dearie, you must be from a wonderful planet where fantasy trumps reality."

ME: Quit with the condecension.

"....because there are far more Catholics who make up their own mind rather than listen to an old impotent fart who never even had sex (or so he claims)."

ME: Someone who has NO understanding of Catholic theology, and worse, calling people names like a gradeschooler. You are better that. Be an adult and ARGUE the point, but don't be disrespectful and bigoted. Please.

"Leave the family planning to the individual, and keep your brain-washed propaganda to yourself."

ME: Please REFUTE the "propaganda" with FACTS, rather than opinions. Can you??

"Contraceptives are a necessity, as is immunization against communicable desease."

ME: Pregnacy ain't easy, but you compare the conception and nuturing a human life for 40 weeks to a communicable disease?? Hmmm. I feel sorry for you.

"If the Pope says stop seeing your dentist, do you listen to the quackery, or do you follow common sense?"

ME: What in the heck are you saying??? Lost me. What does dental hygene have to do with the Theology of the Body??

"Go on and "hold it in" when you're ovulating, and I hope you don't make a mistake with your calandar, and when you're late, congratulations; another child brought into this world due to ignorance."

ME: NFP sounds to me to be much more responsible feminism than turing your womanhood over the BIG PHARMACEUTICAL (Hey, have you ever read what chemicals are in those pills?? Yikes!).

"I hate abortions"

ME: Why?? Really, why??

"but people who refuse the benefits of contraceptives don't help at all. WITH contraceptives abortions can be kept at a minimum. Without contraceptives, the exact opposite will happen. Blind faith doesn't heal ignorance, and society needs common sense more than blind faith."

ME: statistics just don't support you claim. When the pill became MORE PREVELANT and AVAILABLE, what shot up??? ABORTIONS. Oh, and adultry, divorce, disease, dead-beat dads, single-parenthood, etc which led to higher rates of illiteracy, crime, drugs, and prisontime. Just the FACTS, ma'am.

"Catholics are not helping today's society one bit. Their narrow-minded fixations on life and death matters is dangerous and counter-productive."

ME: BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah, you go focus on meaningless matters, and ignore the meaning of life and death. Come'on. Having respect for the meaning of sex and the meaning of life has big consequences. After all, if we didn't have sex we would even exist. Doesn't that mean something??

"Many Catholics agree with me on this,"

ME: AND many Catholics can't theologicall explain WHY they are Catholic, nor WHY the Church teaches what it does re sex and marriage.

"only those uppety know-everything-better folks"

ME: Pot, meet Kettle.

"Abortions will not go down with warped anti-contraception teachings."

ME: Contraception will never be outlawed, but if it wasn't passed out in schools and encouraged by "how to" sex advisors in "health" class, I submit that teenage sex would DROP, because they would have to risk an "price check on aisle 4" at the drug store, or they would have to get permission from their parents for the pill (right now it's harder to aspirin from a school nurse!!).

"Perhaps AIDS can be faught better if no more condoms were used?"

ME: NOT HAVING SEX OUTSIDE OF YOUR MARRIAGE WOULD FREAKING HELP!! See Uganda for ABSTENINCE, BE FAITHFUL, then, and only then, condoms.

"or stastical data Idiots for working against the cure."

ME: No one is working against finding a cure. What we are saying is if you have weeds, shouldn't we handle it at the ROOT, rather than spraying them over and over and over again, getting nowhere??? The ROOT is behavior, whether sexual or hygenic.

"Fools for believing anything an aging religious guru hands down from his dressing room. Maybe the guy can change the rules, so those old gay guys can switch from dresses to pants. It would make them less obvious!"

ME: Hey disagree with me, but you don't need to be adolescent about it.
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  #9  
Old May 12, '05, 6:52 pm
mommy mommy is offline
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JLW - You rock!!!!
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  #10  
Old May 12, '05, 7:59 pm
Fortiterinre Fortiterinre is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Your typical oral contraceptive pill (estrogen/progestin combo) is abortafacient anywhere from 3-30% of the time. The intention may be to prevent ovulation, but the high "effectiveness" rating comes from the fact that the pill is abortafacient. I'm getting my info from the scholarly journal Archives of Internal Medicine, "Postfertilization Effects of Oral Contraceptives and Their Relationship to Informed Consent," Vol. 9, No. 2 (February 2000), pages 126-133. Not exactly "anti-choice bigotry!"
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  #11  
Old May 12, '05, 8:08 pm
Steve Andersen Steve Andersen is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Life_Teen
How do I respond to people who think like this? I mean, should I leave them be, or try to help? Anything I say is turned against me... 'Dearie' Hmph.

Well you got to admit you were a little off the wall if you really and truly said

Quote:
And there's no population crisis! We can take all the people in the world and shove them into Jacksonville Fl. and we'd still have elbow room. Chill, we're not going to starve.

There are about 840 square miles in Jacksonville/Duval County and about 6 Billion humans on the planet

That would be about 4 square feet apiece Iím not sure how large or small a person you are but personally a 2 by 2 space doesnít cut it

Defend the faith but don't use hyperbole because it makes it easier for them to challenge anything you say

if you make a claim be sure that it is accurate &
include a refference
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  #12  
Old May 12, '05, 8:32 pm
Pro-Life_Teen Pro-Life_Teen is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

I said elbow room. 2 ft by 2 ft is enough for that.
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  #13  
Old May 12, '05, 8:52 pm
Steve Andersen Steve Andersen is offline
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Default Re: 'Catholic' Response

I have a 46 inch chest...the shoulders and arms (and elbows) stick out much further

A space 48 inches on a side isn't going to cut it


I didn't see your entire post or the context but what I thought it implied was that the earthís population could live in the area of Jacksonville not merely stand there

Iím sorry if I misunderstood you


But that underlines to need to be clear when debating on line
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  #14  
Old May 12, '05, 10:03 pm
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rayne89 rayne89 is offline
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On 5/11/2005 6:17:43 AM, Y Deny? wrote:

"To insist on abstaining from BOTH abortion and contraceptives is IDIOTIC! If 100% of the world population REALKLY obeyed both of those CATHOILIC laws, we'd be long extinct from over-population, disease and strarvation.

The Pope is a MORON, and it doesn't matter where he gets his stupid ideas. To cling to such teachings is AGAINST common sense and helps no one. A family with 8 or 10 children is NOT the way to go in the 21st century. To PREVENT unwanted pregancies is SESIBLE and applaudable. Contraceptives PREVENT more abortions than anything else. Why bite the hand that helps you? The Pope needs to go to hell, and FAST! He doesn't do the world a damn bit of good with his homo-phobic, dress-wearing, (supposedly) non-screwing ********! A hypocrite will NEVER be able to tell the undeniable truth. That's why all Popes are lying sons of you know whats!"


To which I responded:

First of all the pope is not a moran, he's an educated and highly intelligent man. He was a professer both at the university of Bonn and then later at the university of Munster. Why don't you stick to the discussion at hand instead of flinging insults about a doctrine you do not understand.

I do not use contraception nor have I ever had an abortion. I have one child and I have been married 14 years. I have no problems with fertility infact I got pregnant on the first try. I am intimate with my husband considerably more than any of my contracepting friends.

So what gives? I use natural family planning (NFP). The reason for me using NFP in limiting my family size is because I have a very serious health problem, and another pregnancy would be life threatening. It has a 99% acurracy rate. I do not have any chemicals running through my body. I have not had to have unnecessary surgical procedures. I do not have a peice of latax between myself and my husband.

The pope does speak the truth. But there are many who refuse to hear it. Those who use NFP have a less than 3% divorce rate. Those who contracept have a 50% divorce rate. The pope teaches what is good for strong happy marriages, and what he teaches is the truth.

I would guess up until coming to this forum you'd never heard the word NFP, and I would also guess you don't have a clue how it works. Catholics are not expected to just pop out children with out any thought or consideration for how they will provide for their care. NFP is there for those that have serious reasons for limiting family size. It works and it brings couples closer together.

So you would ask what about those outside of marriage? Am I nieve enough to believe they'll all just abstain until marriage? No, I do not believe that will happen. But we are talking about truth here right? The pope is required to teach the truth, the truth that will bring the most happiness, the fulfillment - to teach what God know's will bring us the greatest satisfaction in life. Those who have sex before marriage have a considerably higher rate of divorce than those that wait. Those that that live with someone before marriage have a much higher rate of divorce. And that is the truth.

Whether it's unpopular or not politically correct, does not change what the ultimate truth is. The truth that comes from God, the truth that does not change and that the pope has not authority over. Maybe God isn't particularily important in your life, but the pope is Christain and he will teach the laws of christianity. Not of atheists or agnostics. He's not a politician he's the Vicar of Christ.


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  #15  
Old May 12, '05, 10:22 pm
Mom of one Mom of one is offline
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Ouch. I don't know how you guys do it. you respond so much more charitibly(SP?) than I ever could. Bless you and I thank God for giving you all this grace.
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