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  #16  
Old Jun 22, '10, 1:07 pm
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

At 15 Year old you shouldn't have "experience" with girls. You should not use priesthood to escape an aversion that you may be having now. You should be listening for a calling. This is what you should respond to.
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  #17  
Old Jun 23, '10, 3:29 am
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I'm really surprised to find out that there are still people whom believe that virginity before marriage is very important, you really give a good example of Christian faith, may GOD bless you all and may GOD protect you against all evil works.
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  #18  
Old Jun 23, '10, 8:45 am
PaulinVA PaulinVA is online now
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

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Originally Posted by IntegraCatholic View Post
If you do not seriously discern your vocation, you will be at risk of losing your soul, for if we err in this one choice, everything we do will be wrong. We can do 1,000 acts of charity and spend all our time in prayer, but if we do it not according to God's will, it is worthless. It is rather a heap of burning coals upon our head.
Uhm, no. If you have trouble discerning your vocation, and perhaps misunderstand or pick incorrectly, God does not walk away from you never to speak to you again.

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One person mentioned college. If you think you have a vocation, don't go to college. You will almost certainly lose your vocation. You can learn anything you learn that is worthwhile in college while at the seminary. I will keep your discernment in my prayers. God bless.
Vocations are not so fragile that they do not survive living in the real world.

We need priests who are normal, who have lived life, and who are making an informed decision knowing what they are giving up and what they are getting in to.

So, while you are thinking about your vocation, live life. Whether it's marriage or the religious life, go into it with your eyes and ears open. At 15, you just need to pray about it. Read some books. Talk to the vocations director of your diocese.
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  #19  
Old Jun 23, '10, 9:02 am
Desertsailor Desertsailor is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

Right now you just need to be praying for chastity. Everything else will work out in time.
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  #20  
Old Jun 23, '10, 12:42 pm
IntegraCatholic IntegraCatholic is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

PaulinVA, both of the opinions I expressed are the common consensus of moral theologians and spiritual authors (especially the second one; it is unanimous, in fact, in all those I have read--at least a dozen, probably many more). Do you have a source for what you are saying other than your personal opinion, which, if I may say so, seems to be guided more by what is considered "normal" by the modern world than by sound principles?
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  #21  
Old Jun 23, '10, 12:45 pm
Lutheranteach Lutheranteach is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

I went off to college having barely ever kissed a girl and let's just say in the first three months of college I made up for a lot of lost time. At 15, I'd say it's far too soon to tell. I'd say you need to have a bit more life experience before making any decisions regarding a calling, career, etc.
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  #22  
Old Jun 23, '10, 12:55 pm
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

Maybe it's just peculiar to my diocese, but we seem to have a lot of new priests and new seminarians who did not go to minor seminary. One was an accountant, one was a physicist, before going to major seminary. Even those still in college seem to discern their vocations quite well at a secular college. Last week I heard a talk from a seminarian who first discerned a possible vocation in grade school, but was uncertain until after his college years and a girlfriend, that he wanted to go on to major seminary.

One upside of this seems, to me at least, to be that those who arrive at their discernment in this way are quite certain of it.

I recall the heyday of the minor seminary system when nearly everyone went to a college seminary followed by a major seminary. The college freshman class started out very large, the 4th theology class was very small. Not that there is anything wrong with attending a college seminary, but I think perhaps some late vocations may have been missed because they didn't fit into the standard way of doing things.
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  #23  
Old Jun 23, '10, 2:03 pm
PaulinVA PaulinVA is online now
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

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Originally Posted by IntegraCatholic View Post
PaulinVA, both of the opinions I expressed are the common consensus of moral theologians and spiritual authors (especially the second one; it is unanimous, in fact, in all those I have read--at least a dozen, probably many more). Do you have a source for what you are saying other than your personal opinion, which, if I may say so, seems to be guided more by what is considered "normal" by the modern world than by sound principles?
Yes, I do. Common sense. Maybe I misunderstand you, but you seem to be saying in the first instance that God is like a Grand Inquisitor that is waiting for you to make a misstep so he can send you to Hell. Do you really think that if you have a call to a religious vocation, and you get married, that you are damned to Hell because you have made one wrong choice? Really? You mean I could have made a wrong choice decades ago and nothing can remedy that? Jesus didn't die on the cross for my wrong decision?

As to the second point, the whole idea of losing your vocation/losing your faith in a mean old secular college filled with terrible Jezebel women is demeaning to women, demeaning to men, and overall strikes me as being afraid of life outside the seminary. We don't want priests like that, do we?

Immaturity is one of the reasons that the priest abuse scandal occurred. Going to Catholic secondary school, minor seminary, and major seminary does not give a man the opportunity to mature, to resist temptation, to learn about life, to develop healthy friendships with women, etc.

And I have no idea what you mean by "normal in the modern world" . The modern world doesn't really spend much time thinking about priestly formation, wouldn't you agree?
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  #24  
Old Jun 23, '10, 2:13 pm
Ignatius Ignatius is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

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Originally Posted by i need helpp View Post
i do wanna date or get married but, the bible says its good for a man to get married but its even better for a man to never touch a woman, if god wants me to abstain from sexuality itself, i will though. i'm going to confession saturday, i've thought about becoming a priest but, im 15 could i ? but i wanna date at least once or marry i dont know if i can take a vow of celibacy .. i wanna at least have a 1st kiss like everybody else.. i've barely even talked to girls but i wanna be that better & never touch a woman but i wanna get married & be a father one day .. i want to abstain from sexuality itself but i wanna get married or date ...
I would look into the priesthood, but in the meantime I would have a normal social life, including dating. This is the only way that you will know.
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  #25  
Old Jun 23, '10, 4:33 pm
IntegraCatholic IntegraCatholic is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

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Originally Posted by PaulinVA View Post
Yes, I do. Common sense. Maybe I misunderstand you, but you seem to be saying in the first instance that God is like a Grand Inquisitor that is waiting for you to make a misstep so he can send you to Hell. [&c.]
That's not what I said, I encourage you to re-read what I said carefully. Notice words like "risk" and the like. I never said someone goes to hell without a doubt if he neglects to discern his vocation properly. It is still possible but very difficult to be saved if one does not follow the vocation to which God calls him. If he does so from upright motives (e.g., he has to take care of his ailing parents, etc.), then he is not guilty at all but fulfills his duty as a child. If he does it from some other selfish motive, then it would be at least venially sinful. Depending upon the motive, it very well could be (and probably is, alas, for many) mortally sinful. That individual sin can certainly be forgiven by confession, but even after that, once someone has made permanent vows, received ordination, or been married, he can't turn back. For the rest of his life, he can possibly save his soul but will do so with much greater difficulty on account of the necessary graces he will lack that God in his plan had prepared for him in his proper state in life.

[quote]As to the second point, the whole idea of losing your vocation/losing your faith in a mean old secular college filled with terrible Jezebel women is demeaning to women, demeaning to men, and overall strikes me as being afraid of life outside the seminary. We don't want priests like that, do we?[.quote]

You do not understand human nature, naturally. I would also add that you haven't ever thought you had a vocation (at least according to what you've said), so I think those who have not only experienced it themselves but--much more importantly--have sought counsel from those who regularly deal with vocations (e.g., vocations directors at seminaries), spiritual directors, and priests on in interpersonal way and in a much greater capacity have a lot more weight when it comes to the realm of opinion. So much to say that I think I am a bit better informed about this. That is still only a small reason for what I've said, however, for, as I said, the spiritual authors are unanimous on this point. I would challenge you to come up with a single example to the contrary. If what you're saying is "common sense," I guess the doctors of the Church lack common sense. Interesting thought...

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Immaturity is one of the reasons that the priest abuse scandal occurred. Going to Catholic secondary school, minor seminary, and major seminary does not give a man the opportunity to mature, to resist temptation, to learn about life, to develop healthy friendships with women, etc.
That's your opinion, and I think it is entirely wrong. There was no such thing as mixed education in schools until very recently. Where is the evidence for all the abuse scandals in every country throughout the history of the Church? Any evidence you have to support your presupposition would be à propos.

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And I have no idea what you mean by "normal in the modern world". The modern world doesn't really spend much time thinking about priestly formation, wouldn't you agree?
Re-read what I quoted just above about immaturity. That is precisely the sort of thing I am talking about. It is pretty much just your opinion without facts. Your opinion is formed by what modern society considers normal. You then apply that to a vocational situation. That's what I meant.
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  #26  
Old Jun 23, '10, 5:19 pm
PaulinVA PaulinVA is online now
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

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Originally Posted by IntegraCatholic View Post
That's not what I said, I encourage you to re-read what I said carefully. Notice words like "risk" and the like. I never said someone goes to hell without a doubt if he neglects to discern his vocation properly. It is still possible but very difficult to be saved if one does not follow the vocation to which God calls him. ...For the rest of his life, he can possibly save his soul but will do so with much greater difficulty on account of the necessary graces he will lack that God in his plan had prepared for him in his proper state in life.
Okay, what I said still stands. You haven't refuted anything, just backpedaled a little. Living out a vocation takes the free will of many people - if I am called to marriage, I need someone to agree to marry me. If I am called by God to a religious vocation, but no diocese or order accepts me, where does that leave me? An uphill battle to be saved because of other people?

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Originally Posted by Paul
As to the second point, the whole idea of losing your vocation/losing your faith in a mean old secular college filled with terrible Jezebel women is demeaning to women, demeaning to men, and overall strikes me as being afraid of life outside the seminary. We don't want priests like that, do we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegraCatholic
You do not understand human nature, naturally. I would also add that you haven't ever thought you had a vocation (at least according to what you've said)
Ad Hominen and condescending at the same time. Nice.
I am living out my vocation right now. You must remember that married life is a vocation, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegraCatholic
Re-read what I quoted just above about immaturity. That is precisely the sort of thing I am talking about. It is pretty much just your opinion without facts. Your opinion is formed by what modern society considers normal. You then apply that to a vocational situation. That's what I meant.
I stand by what I wrote. It comes from reading about the abuse scandals, reading about seminary education, and observing/speaking with priests for decades. But the second point was actually about losing one's priestly vocation if one goes a secular college. You seem to be arguing that no one who feels they have a vocation has ever survived a secular college. I can point you to some if you would like. Really, all of those authors actually say that every man with a priestly vocation who ever attended a secular college "lost" his vocation?
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  #27  
Old Jun 23, '10, 5:47 pm
IntegraCatholic IntegraCatholic is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

[quote=PaulinVA;6775305]Okay, what I said still stands. You haven't refuted anything, just backpedaled a little. Living out a vocation takes the free will of many people - if I am called to marriage, I need someone to agree to marry me. If I am called by God to a religious vocation, but no diocese or order accepts me, where does that leave me? An uphill battle to be saved because of other people?

I didn't backpedal or change anything I wrote. You misread the first post.

If you don't find someone to marry but were doing your duties in life without fault, you obviously don't have a vocation from God. If you aren't accepted to seminary, you obviously don't have a vocation from God. It's clear from these statements that you've not read anything about the topic. Why do you feel compelled to contradict what someone else says (I wouldn't mind if you had asked about it due to lack of knowledge) when you are ignorant on the subject?

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Ad Hominen and condescending at the same time. Nice.
I am living out my vocation right now. You must remember that married life is a vocation, too.
The married state is only a vocation equivocally. It is the nature end of man and therefore doesn't require a special call (vocatio) from God. It's not an ad hominem; the comment has to do with your argument. The statements you made evince that you misunderstand human nature, the passions, etc. If you perhaps actually do understand these, your comment lacks the understanding of them. It is a matter of semantics, though.

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You seem to be arguing that no one who feels they have a vocation has ever survived a secular college.
I don't seem to be arguing that. I never even hinted at it in the least. If I say, "if you cross the street without looking, you are at risk of getting hit by a car," does that mean I think no one has ever crossed the street without looking without being hit by a car? Think about what I'm saying; think about what you're saying, then go back and re-read what I'm saying and see if what you're arguing against is what I'm actually saying. That would have saved both of us 90% of the time we dedicated to this so far.

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I stand by what I wrote. It comes from reading about the abuse scandals, reading about seminary education, and observing/speaking with priests for decades.
So you admit your position is based upon opinion and not principle? In that case, there's not much sense in discussing it.

Quote:
I can point you to some if you would like. Really, all of those authors actually say that every man with a priestly vocation who ever attended a secular college "lost" his vocation?
That's not what I said. If by secular university you mean one that is not Catholic, the Church's teaching is clear that this is not permissible to attend a secular university without grave and necessary reasons.

Quote:
But the second point was actually about losing one's priestly vocation if one goes a secular college.
Again, if you re-read what I said, the point was about fulfilling one's vocation as soon as possible after he realizes what it is. Our duty to discern our vocation is first to God, not our education, not amassing wealth. Therefore, a serious discernment is necessary before taking steps to go to a university. Besides, such a step makes a vocation doubly difficult by accumulating debt, which must be paid before going to religious life for sure and frequently even to the secular priesthood.

I encourage you in this particular instance to read what, for example, St. Alphonsus Liguori, has to say about this. He's probably a good place to start, since he's the doctor of moral theology. I assume you can find his works on Google Books because they are beyond copyright. In general, I highly encourage you to research a topic that you are unfamiliar with before attacking someone else's position on it, who may be much better educated on the subject that you. I'm not saying that because I'm upset. I'm not at all. It will just save you time in the long run and is a sign of a prudent man.
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  #28  
Old Jun 23, '10, 6:21 pm
PaulinVA PaulinVA is online now
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

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Originally Posted by IntegraCatholic View Post
I didn't backpedal or change anything I wrote. You misread the first post.

If you don't find someone to marry but were doing your duties in life without fault, you obviously don't have a vocation from God. If you aren't accepted to seminary, you obviously don't have a vocation from God. It's clear from these statements that you've not read anything about the topic. Why do you feel compelled to contradict what someone else says (I wouldn't mind if you had asked about it due to lack of knowledge) when you are ignorant on the subject?
I find your logic fascinating. So, actually, what you are saying is that one does not have to discern ones vocation at all! If one thinks they might have a religious vocation, just enter the discernment process. If you are not accepted to seminary - you didn't have a vocation! Great! How many seminaries do you have to apply to? One? One diocesan and one order? So, it's out of my hands totally? Oh, and if one is accepted to seminary that means one has a call from God? God wanted all those pedophile priests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegraCatholic
...The statements you made evince that you misunderstand human nature, the passions, etc. If you perhaps actually do understand these, your comment lacks the understanding of them. It is a matter of semantics, though.
Yeah, there's a lack of understanding of human nature going on here, for sure.


I wrote more, but this is enough. I don't want to derail the thread, which is dangerously off topic now.
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  #29  
Old Jun 23, '10, 7:46 pm
IntegraCatholic IntegraCatholic is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

You have evinced no intention to know the truth on this matter, which saddens me. I recommend to you the works of theologians. Your opinion is not in line with theirs.
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  #30  
Old Jun 23, '10, 7:53 pm
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: im 15, Never Kissed a girl or touched, should i become a priest?

In any case, having not kissed a girl by age 15 is in no way any indication of a priestly vocation! Rather it is just an indication of common sense, in not having immediately caved in to the push of a promiscuous society for early sex.
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