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  #31  
Old May 8, '10, 10:57 am
shaky shaky is offline
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Question Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by stringbeanduck View Post
Look, you need to be fully conscious for it to count toward being a mortal sin. It is impossible to be dreaming and be fully conscious. I understand the concept of lucid dreams, but they are nonetheless, dreams that which occur in the state of unconsciousness.
Hi stringbeanduck

Some people sleepwalking have raped people and murdered people.

When taken to court they have be found not Guilty
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  #32  
Old May 8, '10, 5:27 pm
stringbeanduck stringbeanduck is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by shaky View Post
Hi stringbeanduck

Some people sleepwalking have raped people and murdered people.

When taken to court they have be found not Guilty
And rightly so.

The TV show Forensic Files aired a case where a man beat his wife to death when he was asleep. It was pretty interesting to see the evidence.
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  #33  
Old May 8, '10, 6:10 pm
TheQuestioner TheQuestioner is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

No, it is not a sin, period. Nocturnal emissions are not necessarily a sign of lustful thinking while you were awake, as if that has affected you in your sleep. They happen and are normal. They are beyond your control. Orgasm itself is not sinful, it is always the context (reason for it, whether you were doing something you shouldn't have, if it was on purpose, etc.) that can cause it to be sinful.

Again, and this is the Church's response, it is not sinful. Period. End of discussion.
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  #34  
Old May 8, '10, 6:14 pm
OraLabora OraLabora is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by TheQuestioner View Post
No, it is not a sin, period. Nocturnal emissions are not necessarily a sign of lustful thinking while you were awake, as if that has affected you in your sleep. They happen and are normal. They are beyond your control. Orgasm itself is not sinful, it is always the context (reason for it, whether you were doing something you shouldn't have, if it was on purpose, etc.) that can cause it to be sinful.

Again, and this is the Church's response, it is not sinful. Period. End of discussion.
Exactly, any attempts to blame lust prior to sleeping on this is akin to "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

WAAYY too scrupulous! We are not in control of how our brain parses information during our sleep.

Incidentally, this is a question that puzzles me here. What is the difference between "lust" and sexual desire? I hear "lust" blamed for all manner of depravities on this forum.

But we all have sexual desire, it's how we're made. When does it cross from normal desire to "lust"?

We need sexual desire to reproduce!
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  #35  
Old May 8, '10, 10:34 pm
BobObob BobObob is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by OraLabora View Post
Incidentally, this is a question that puzzles me here. What is the difference between "lust" and sexual desire? I hear "lust" blamed for all manner of depravities on this forum.

But we all have sexual desire, it's how we're made. When does it cross from normal desire to "lust"?

We need sexual desire to reproduce!
Although this is a bit off topic, I want to address this because this is something that so many people don't understand.

The Church defines lust in CCC 2351:

“Lust is disordered [cupidatis] or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.”

I inserted “cupidatis” in where “desire for” would appear in the English translation because the CCC was written in Latin and translated into English. As someone who has painfully studied Latin for 2 years in college, I know that this particular translation leads to a lot of confusion. Cupidatis is commonly translated to “cupidity”, “avarice”, or sometimes “desire” in English, and it means TO WANT something (active), not just to be attracted to something (passive).

The word cupidatis generally denotes a WILLED seeking for something. A mere tendency, or temptation, toward what is an intrinsic moral evil does not fit under this definition of sin. This is why merely having a sexual attraction to others (or sexual desire) when you aren't married is NOT sinful. It's how you respond to that attraction (lust or other sexual sins) that may be sinful.

Basically, lust means seeking some sort of sexual gratification aside from procreative or unitive purposes.
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  #36  
Old May 9, '10, 1:07 am
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Ponyguy Ponyguy is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by Epistemes View Post
Do nocturnal emissions/wet dreams cause us to fall into mortal sin?
"Nocturnal emission" (the proper term for the event ) is a natural event, beyond the control of the sleeping man. These ordinarily happen while the guy is an adolescent or a young adult, when the body's testosterone and hormones are emerging and establishing their presence. The raging levels of hormones, until they naturally equilibrate, generate copious amounts of the male ejaculate. The excess amount has to go somewhere until the body can rein in control, so out it goes...

Quite often, this occurs without the sleeping man dreaming, or even becoming aware of it... (until he wakes up in the morning).

Hardly a sinful occasion...
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  #37  
Old May 23, '10, 3:48 am
MikeBill MikeBill is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by TheQuestioner View Post
No, it is not a sin, period. Nocturnal emissions are not necessarily a sign of lustful thinking while you were awake, as if that has affected you in your sleep. They happen and are normal. They are beyond your control. Orgasm itself is not sinful, it is always the context (reason for it, whether you were doing something you shouldn't have, if it was on purpose, etc.) that can cause it to be sinful.

Again, and this is the Church's response, it is not sinful. Period. End of discussion.
As someone who struggled with masturbation at one point, I can say that beyond the obvious ejaculation, self-induced orgasms and wet dreams have vastly different effects on my mind/body. The former led to an increasingly strong addiction that took nearly two years and many sleepless nights to stop (and I can't imagine how hard it might be for someone who's been doing it all their life. I had just started, and it had already become a genuine, seemingly natural "need"). OTOH, the latter has never affected my daily life, nor does it produce the same rush I felt (dopamine?) when masturbating.

They're incomparable in terms of both intention and physiology.
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  #38  
Old May 25, '10, 11:03 am
OraLabora OraLabora is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by Daniel Kane View Post
A nocturnal emission is a normal physiologic event for some males and NOT a mortal sin as does not meet the criteria for a mortal sin, which is (1) grave matter (2) full knowledge of the sin and gravity of the act (3) commission with deliberate and complete consent. One cannot sin mortally by accident or while asleep.

Masturbation on the other hand is without question a mortal sin. Some may call it normal but in reality, one who calls it normal one really is trying to imply that it is a common activity, which no doubt it is. It is not normal, but common. One may or may not participate in such activity.

One who masturbates sins mortally b/c it fulfills all three of the criteria above and is a disordered use of the sexual faculty, which is the unity and procreation within the married state. In masturbation, neither is achieved, even within the married state. Because of the fantasy or pornography involved, it includes the "lust of the eyes" mentioned my Christ in Mt. 5:28.

Here we go again.

Apparently the Church disagrees with you:

Quote:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.
Masturbation isn't always a mortal sin. CCC 2352's interpretation on the culpability of masturbation can be either wide or narrow, but clearly it is not correct to call masturbation "a mortal sin" or to say "one who masturbates sins mortally".

Masturbation is grave matter (objective). Whether it is mortal or not is a subjective is a subjective judgement that a confessor arrives at based on information from the penitent.

As for wet dreams, about 20% of men never experience them. If any non-sexually active men experience discomfort from this, then I suspect that this lessens the culpability of masturbation if that is used as a means of alleviating the discomfort.
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  #39  
Old May 31, '10, 1:53 pm
Magnavox Magnavox is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

What if during your dream...you are dreaming you are masturbating....and during the dream you say...this is a mortal sin and i dont want to do it...but you wake up and it has incidentally happened...and then you think...**** i didn't want to do that....its hard to control what happens in a dream...it can't be sinful to me
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  #40  
Old May 31, '10, 7:11 pm
stringbeanduck stringbeanduck is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by Magnavox View Post
What if during your dream...you are dreaming you are masturbating....and during the dream you say...this is a mortal sin and i dont want to do it...but you wake up and it has incidentally happened...and then you think...**** i didn't want to do that....its hard to control what happens in a dream...it can't be sinful to me
Chill out. Don't over think it man. If happens when you are asleep you're fine because sleep can't occur without a person being unconscious. And if a person is not fully conscious then they can not be in mortal sin.
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  #41  
Old Jul 7, '10, 9:45 pm
Nunya Nunya is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

For a good source to look at pertaining to nocturnal emissions with respects to sin and permissibility of receiving communion - according to St. Thomas Aquinas, when he wrote the summa and as per the translation done of the summa here.

This is an online version of an english translation of the Summa Theologica. See Part/Section III , Question 80, Point 7.

Below should be a direct link to the page I am referring to, and you just need to go to Point 7 - "Whether nocturnal pollution prevents man from receiving this sacrament?" --- Then scroll down to the where you actually see the question heading dealing with this topic, the heading reads "Whether the seminal loss that occurs during sleep hinders anyone from receiving this sacrament?". There you can read about what St. Thomas says in reference to Nocturnal emission in the Summa.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/aqui...mma/sum532.htm
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  #42  
Old Dec 4, '10, 7:58 am
RHannosh619 RHannosh619 is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

Hi everyone, I'm not trying to ressurrect a dead thread, but I need an answer!!

Okay so, I just want to know if it's wrong to stop yourself before having a wet dream?

I know it sound weird, but last night I was about to have one, but before any ejaculation I was able to wake up and stop myself, this has happened before, I just want to know if there is any health issues with doing that?
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  #43  
Old Dec 4, '10, 9:18 am
j35u5fr34k j35u5fr34k is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

If someone is desiring that they have a nocturnal emission it could be considered a mortal sin. We can learn to control our dreams and if someone is seeking this sort of thing out it could be a mortal sin. Remember the three conditions for mortal sin: full knowledge, full consent, and grave matter. All three could be met here if someone desired to have a nocturnal emission.

Someone might argue that because the nocturnal emissions happen in a dream that there is not full consent of the will but if someone wishes that this happens before they fall asleep and then has good control of their dreams they could easily consent to this

With that being said, it is difficult to say whether or not that could be considered FULL consent but evaluate what is happening to you and if this sort of situation is true and you are seeking out a nocturnal emission then you need to take control of that.

Another reader had a good point, if you are dwelling on lustful thoughts in your life you are probably setting yourself up for nocturnal emissions.

If you are not seeking this out and it happens in sleep then it is in no way a mortal sin. Now that doesn't mean that if you can stop yourself you don't have to. You should try but if you cannot I would just confess it the next time you can as it is probably not a mortal sin because the arousal happened and you had no or very little chance to stop it.

If there are mitigating circumstances in almost any type of sin that could be considered mortal then it is probably not mortal provided you are evaluating the sin with a properly informed conscience.
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  #44  
Old Dec 4, '10, 9:24 am
j35u5fr34k j35u5fr34k is offline
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by OraLabora View Post
If any non-sexually active men experience discomfort from this, then I suspect that this lessens the culpability of masturbation if that is used as a means of alleviating the discomfort.
Ummmm, WRONG. There is no necessity to masturbate. People need to be careful what they post here as you could be leading people down the wrong road and therefore YOU will be culpable for their sin.
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  #45  
Old Dec 4, '10, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

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Originally Posted by Epistemes View Post
Do nocturnal emissions/wet dreams cause us to fall into mortal sin?
Ah, geeze. I'd say NO...that's just something a male's body is going to DO, like arousal in the AM when you wake....it just is....is all.

I really, really wonder. WHY do you all torture yourselves so over everything and worry about if it's sinful? If you know in your heart if it's right, if you wouldn't be ashamed to tell your mother/father/guardian about it, then I'd venture to say it's OK? Right?
Am I missing something here? I want to CRY when I see all the posts about all the supposed "sins". I would think your God would want you to enjoy life and not worry over every little thing, yeah?
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