Why is "The Life of Brian" considered "morally offensive"?

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by patrick457

Well, those darned hecklers standing by would have been cracking jokes and taunts at Jesus' expense, as the Gospels show us ("Thou that destroyest the temple...").

Taunts of that kind are worlds different to comic songs and jokes about being crucified in an exclusively Jewish section of Golgotha

To be serious. IMO this is where the film requires us to have some suspension of disbelief. Would a crucified man really react that way in real life? Probably not.
Not to mention that suddenly showing someone die in a respectful manner would have been out-of-character for the film - who heretofore has taken everything lightly, and for that matter, the Pythons, who hold nothing sacred, as you may know.

As Python themselves noted, some subjects are beyond comedy - they didn't dare ACTUALLY treat the life of Christ as a joke, why then the very real tragedy and horror of crucifixion?

This from the same group who followed Brian up with The Meaning of Life years afterward, with Death showing up at a party to claim souls and lead them to a rather materialistic sort of Heaven. And Every Sperm is Sacred.

Every Sperm is Sacred, while intended to be a comic mocking of both Catholic and Protestant attitudes to birth control, actually at heart states a very beautiful truth - every sperm IS sacred, containing within it the mysterious seed of God's gift of life, and what a wonderful thought that is.

Well, that's exactly what Python-style humor is: it can at times be surreal, offensive and even - dare I say - crass (Mr. Creosote, the Undertakers Sketch, Sam Peckinpah's Salad Days, and that lost "Wee-Wee" sketch - something that even John Cleese thought was not in good taste - come to mind here for some of the grossest and most crass material they've done).

Important difference being your examples aren't parodies of real events surrounding death, or real deaths, but pure fantasy. No-one ever in real life died while gorging at dinner a la Monsieur Creosote, or fell victim to a killer bunny a la Holy Grail or in real life had an undertaker suggest cannibalising their loved ones a la the Undertakers Sketch.

On the other hand, people REALLY were crucified.

[patrick457]

Originally Posted by LilyM

Taunts of that kind are worlds different to comic songs and jokes about being crucified in an exclusively Jewish section of Golgotha

Well, you've gotta always look at the bright side of death, after all.

As Python themselves noted, some subjects are beyond comedy - they didn't dare ACTUALLY treat the life of Christ as a joke, why then the very real tragedy and horror of crucifixion?

Two words: black comedy.

A bit unrelated, but our whole discussion brought to mind that part in Petronius' Satyricon where the centurion neglects his job of guarding the bodies of dead crucified criminals, due to a widow starving herself to death at her husband's grave. Meanwhile the body of one of the thieves is stolen, and the centurion is about to commit suicide rather than face crucifixion himself. The widow instead puts the body of her once beloved husband on the empty cross so that nobody will know of the theft!

Every Sperm is Sacred, while intended to be a comic mocking of both Catholic and Protestant attitudes to birth control, actually at heart states a very beautiful truth - every sperm IS sacred, containing within it the mysterious seed of God's gift of life, and what a wonderful thought that is.

Yep. Sure makes me glad that The Adventures of Martin Luther didn't make it into the final cut of that film. That would have kinda ruined the message.

Important difference being your examples aren't parodies of real events surrounding death, or real deaths, but pure fantasy. No-one ever in real life died while gorging at dinner a la Monsieur Creosote, or fell victim to a killer bunny a la Holy Grail or in real life had an undertaker suggest cannibalising their loved ones a la the Undertakers Sketch.

On the other hand, people REALLY were crucified.

Hmm, good point.

[Petergee]

Oh yeah, "It's not about Jesus". Really?

The whole thrust of the film is that first century Judea was chock-a-block full of people who were willing to irrationally acclaim anybody at all as the Messiah on the most flimsy pretext. If that's not anti-Christian I don't know what is.

Yes the final cut of the film was carefully edited to create ambiguity about ewehether Christ and Christians wewre actually being targeted, but the whole concept of the film was as an argument for atheism. The book with "additional scenes" which was sold by the Pythons as a companion sale to the film, contains scenes such as St Joseph telling the BVM that she's been taken in by some spieler who deflowered her claiming he was the Holy Ghost.

[InspiritCarol]

Originally Posted by Petergee

Oh yeah, "It's not about Jesus". Really?

The whole thrust of the film is that first century Judea was chock-a-block full of people who were willing to irrationally acclaim anybody at all as the Messiah on the most flimsy pretext. If that's not anti-Christian I don't know what is.

Yes the final cut of the film was carefully edited to create ambiguity about ewehether Christ and Christians wewre actually being targeted, but the whole concept of the film was as an argument for atheism. The book with "additional scenes" which was sold by the Pythons as a companion sale to the film, contains scenes such as St Joseph telling the BVM that she's been taken in by some spieler who deflowered her claiming he was the Holy Ghost.

~phew~ Thank you for stating the obvious, "Petergee".

Ah well. Sometimes the obvious escapes people; and I mean no offense when I say that. I miss stuff too. ~lol~

BTW, my absolute favorite COMPLETELY OFFENSIVE Monty Python moment is the "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch" scene in "The Holy Grail". And YES it IS also VERY offensive.

From wikipedia:
Instructions for its use can be found in the (fictitious) Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9-21, parodying the King James Bible and the "Athanasian Creed". http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed.

“ ...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu... [At this point, the friar is urged by Brother Maynard to "skip a bit, brother"]... And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.[1]

Yes, I squirmed a bit, but I laughed my head off too. Do I need to go to confession? (That's a real question - cause, gosh, I guess I could be way off base here). ~still laughing though~

[patrick457]

Originally Posted by InspiritCarol

BTW, my absolute favorite COMPLETELY OFFENSIVE Monty Python moment is the "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch" scene in "The Holy Grail". And YES it IS also VERY offensive.

From wikipedia:
Instructions for its use can be found in the (fictitious) Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9-21, parodying the King James Bible and the "Athanasian Creed". http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed.

“ ...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu... [At this point, the friar is urged by Brother Maynard to "skip a bit, brother"]... And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.[1]

Yes, I squirmed a bit, but I laughed my head off too. Do I need to go to confession? (That's a real question - cause, gosh, I guess I could be way off base here). ~still laughing though~

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by patrick457

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

No - not the comfy chair!!!!!!!

[patrick457]

Originally Posted by Petergee

Oh yeah, "It's not about Jesus". Really?

The whole thrust of the film is that first century Judea was chock-a-block full of people who were willing to irrationally acclaim anybody at all as the Messiah on the most flimsy pretext. If that's not anti-Christian I don't know what is.

Yes the final cut of the film was carefully edited to create ambiguity about ewehether Christ and Christians wewre actually being targeted, but the whole concept of the film was as an argument for atheism. The book with "additional scenes" which was sold by the Pythons as a companion sale to the film, contains scenes such as St Joseph telling the BVM that she's been taken in by some spieler who deflowered her claiming he was the Holy Ghost.

Not surprising given that the guys who made it are not too keen about organized religion.

Reminds me of two things: one is that (offensive, yeah ) Rowan Atkinson sketch parodying the whole controversy surrounding the film, where this movie called General Synod's Life of Christ is perceived as an attack on the 'Church of Python' and 'Our Lord, John Cleese' ("I mean, look, even the initials, J.C., are exactly the same!"). Another is Atkinson's Hell sketch, where you have the Devil rounding up "everyone who saw Monty Pythons' "Life Of Brian"" because "I'm afraid He can't take a joke after all."

[fons_vitae]

Originally Posted by InspiritCarol

You sound sincere so I'll bite.

LoB completely and thouroughly mocks religions, especially Christianity.

I'm not as much of a fan of Life of Brian as I once was, but I recall that it mocks almost everything else too: political ideologies (it almost seems conservative in its mockery of leftish "people's fronts"), prejudice, government, greed, incarceration, history, gender, etc. And furthermore, at least Brian emphatically isn't the Messiah, despite people erroneously thinking he is when Jesus is preaching on a neighboring hill!

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I saw a Python retrospective--------

I think it was Cleese who said ultimately LOB is not "Anti-Religion," but "Anti-Dogma."

One can take from that what one will.

Personally, I don't quite buy it.

But still----I don't think LOB is as Heretical as some make it out to be. Still, the Crucifixtion Scen WAS Tasteless and Blasphemous, from my point of view.

[curlycool89]

Originally Posted by LilyM

The parody lies in the fact that Brian and co crack jokes and burst into song while up on their crosses - obviously a mockery and parody of the solemnity and profound nature of Jesus' crucifixion.

And indeed, all crucifixions, being deaths, should be treated respectfully. If a member of your family died in a car accident you probably wouldn't want a comedy film to make light of the whole idea of dying in a car accident, would you?

St. Lawrence of Rome was said to have said "turn me over ... I'm done on this side" while being roasted to death.

[colmcille1]

Hi all,
The crucifixion scene in LoB is the most offensive part of this movie. As pointed out by a previous poster the song could be sung outside of this movie; but only those who do not care about religion would do so and not see anything wrong with it.
Therefore context is everything. The pythons knew exactly what they were doing was deeply offensive. That was their stock-in-trade.
Mockery is easy. Faith is difficult. Choose Faith!
God Bless,
Colmcille.

[phoenixrrt62]

Originally Posted by InspiritCarol

~phew~ Thank you for stating the obvious, "Petergee".

Ah well. Sometimes the obvious escapes people; and I mean no offense when I say that. I miss stuff too. ~lol~

BTW, my absolute favorite COMPLETELY OFFENSIVE Monty Python moment is the "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch" scene in "The Holy Grail". And YES it IS also VERY offensive.

From wikipedia:
Instructions for its use can be found in the (fictitious) Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9-21, parodying the King James Bible and the "Athanasian Creed". http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed.

“ ...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu... [At this point, the friar is urged by Brother Maynard to "skip a bit, brother"]... And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.[1]

Yes, I squirmed a bit, but I laughed my head off too. Do I need to go to confession? (That's a real question - cause, gosh, I guess I could be way off base here). ~still laughing though~

FWIW- I loved that scene, too....too funny!!!! Love Monty Python

[fons_vitae]

Originally Posted by Monty Python

Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three.

As someone who partially grew up with the King James Version and later heard it Anglican churches, I still love this.

Originally Posted by curlycool89

St. Lawrence of Rome was said to have said "turn me over ... I'm done on this side" while being roasted to death.

Indeed, we often forget that the saints were more holy than merely "respectable," as G. K. Chesterton would say. I need to learn from them myself. That being said, I also feel the most squeamish at the Crucifixion singalong at the end of the film, mainly because they make their gloomy viewpoint so blunt in the lyrics ("Life's a piece o' s**t / When you look at it").

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Originally Posted by fons_vitae

As someone who partially grew up with the King James Version and later heard it Anglican churches, I still love this.


Indeed, we often forget that the saints were more holy than merely "respectable," as G. K. Chesterton would say. I need to learn from them myself. That being said, I also feel the most squeamish at the Crucifixion singalong at the end of the film, mainly because they make their gloomy viewpoint so blunt in the lyrics ("Life's a piece o' s**t / When you look at it").

St. Cassian Of Imola, the Christian Teacher-Martyr, was ordered stabbed to Death by his own students using their own Sharp Writing Styluses----he actually encouraged the Little Fiends to Stab Him harder and to even throw the Styluses at Him. He apparently went joyfully to his Death.
So I know what you mean.
Even Saints who are about to meet their Beloved Maker can rejoice.

[TurboVW]

"Life of Brian" has offending scenes, no doubt.

Also "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" had some offending scenes (from 1975...).

And their regular show in the late 60's and early 70's had offending vignettes. I'm sure there are many people who don't find anything about Monty Python's portrayal of the Spanish Inquisition funny at all.

Keep in mind, a lot of their humor was directed towards the Anglican Church during a time when society was changing sharply in England.

"Jesus Christ Superstar" and "Godspell" came out a good 10 years before Life of Brain, and I'm sure there are people who could find offensive things about those films, too. And a few years after LOB, "Last Temptation of Christ" was released.

Thus, there's been a lot of stuff that could be offensive that has been said and done before and after "Life of Brian"....which came out in '82 or '83....didn't think there's still controversy over this in 2010.