Advice on cousin's wedding outside of church

[katholicchik]

Originally Posted by CMatt25

What point? I wouldn't try making a point that you are a better or more faithful Catholic. Despite I'm sure all your good intentions, that might not come across as you might hope. You might be perceived as thinking you are "holier than thou" even though that might not at all be your intention. And might drive your family further away from where you would like them to be.

I never considered I'd be making a point that I'm a better catholic (which is not at all what I would conclude anyway). I mean, I would be making the point that there is a problem at the very least. Not ignoring the issue completely.

It really, really, really eats away at me that she would just dump her upbringing and catholic faith for a wedding. I know it doesn't mean that she is turning her back on God or the church, but it just feels as though she is making very light of a sacrament. and has no desire to be in the church or have the Eucharist present etc. AND my biggest worry, she will in fact not want to correct the marriage in the church so she will just abandon it. And if I do not go, it will certainly send some message. But yes not sure if it will send that message or just seem to say I think I am awesome.

to clarify, I am not awesome. lol.

I think my family is in fact well aware of this, but I am not sure if they know that I know I am not awesome.

I shall have a shirt made.

*hangs head*

[katholicchik]

Originally Posted by Augusta Sans

Also, you might see your cousin's wedding as an opportunity for you to practice the virtues of forgiveness and humility. I believe every trial life presents, whether it be big or small, is an opportunity for us to become closer to God.

Best wishes to you. I have a feeling that no matter what you choose to do, you will do it with grace and humility!

thank you. I need every opportunity for grace I can get!!

[Phemie]

Originally Posted by Augusta Sans

And I truly like the idea of giving them his and hers rosaries, and following up a few months later with a very kind-hearted letter explaining the convalidation process. If she ignores you, later on when she becomes pregnant might be another time to revisit the convalidation suggestion. (I've noticed my non-religious friends go through spiritual crises when they realize that their children will have no religion if the expecting parents don't shape up.)

His and hers rosaries when the groom isn't Catholic seems to me to be over the top, and pretty insensitive, regardless of how expensive. Heck, I'm a practicing Catholic and got a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic (1917 Code) and would have loved a rosary but I wouldn't have thanked anyone who tried to impose their piety on my non-Catholic husband by giving him one too.

[Contra Mundum]

Originally Posted by katholicchik

It really, really, really eats away at me that she would just dump her upbringing and catholic faith for a wedding.
AND my biggest worry, she will in fact not want to correct the marriage in the church so she will just abandon it.

I think you have a very real reason to be concerned here. Thing is, whether you come to her wedding or not might have no impact on her. She might not interpret your absence in the way you would like. Since you have no problem telling the truth you could explain to her why you feel you shouldn't go (ie to support an invalid marriage). What the rest of the family thinks (that you're a jerk) really shouldn't matter. You can't please all the people all the time, right?
I say have a chat with your cousin and express your concern for her future. Explain what it means to be in an invalid marriage. See what she has to say for herself and then make your decision.

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by Phemie

His and hers rosaries when the groom isn't Catholic seems to me to be over the top, and pretty insensitive, regardless of how expensive. Heck, I'm a practicing Catholic and got a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic (1917 Code) and would have loved a rosary but I wouldn't have thanked anyone who tried to impose their piety on my non-Catholic husband by giving him one too.

exactly

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by Contra Mundum

Thing is, whether you come to her wedding or not might have no impact on her. She might not interpret your absence in the way you would like.

Exactly. The cousin may no longer desire to practice the Catholic faith to the degree OP does. So are the devoutest Catholics supposed to live in a cocoon and not for instance attend weddings of those friends and relatives with a different faith or a different degree of faithfulness?

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by katholicchik

I never considered I'd be making a point that I'm a better catholic (which is not at all what I would conclude anyway). I mean, I would be making the point that there is a problem at the very least. Not ignoring the issue completely.

It really, really, really eats away at me that she would just dump her upbringing and catholic faith for a wedding. I know it doesn't mean that she is turning her back on God or the church, but it just feels as though she is making very light of a sacrament. and has no desire to be in the church or have the Eucharist present etc. AND my biggest worry, she will in fact not want to correct the marriage in the church so she will just abandon it. And if I do not go, it will certainly send some message. But yes not sure if it will send that message or just seem to say I think I am awesome.

to clarify, I am not awesome. lol.

I think my family is in fact well aware of this, but I am not sure if they know that I know I am not awesome.

I shall have a shirt made.

*hangs head*

I can tell it eats at you. And I think sometimes more devout or faithful, though not perfectly awesome Catholics as yourself can overlook how another might perceive the point they try to make. And it can drive folks further away. But anyway peace be with you and with your cousin and her future husband. May God bless you and them.

[Annabelle Marie]

Originally Posted by CMatt25

Exactly. The cousin may no longer desire to practice the Catholic faith to the degree OP does. So are the devoutest Catholics supposed to live in a cocoon and not for instance attend weddings of those friends and relatives with a different faith or a different degree of faithfulness?

Maybe? It would depend. Why can you not have a conversation with them about the laws of the Church? I sure wish someone had told me....they may have thought we "knew".

I'm sure you know that any baptized Catholic is bound by the marriage laws of the Church.

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by Annabelle Marie

Maybe? It would depend. Why can you not have a conversation with them about the laws of the Church? I sure wish someone had told me....they may have thought we "knew".

I'm sure you know that any baptized Catholic is bound by the marriage laws of the Church.

Annabelle Marie, maybe OP's cousin does not desire to practice to the degree of OP or maybe the devoutest should live in a cocoon?

Sure people can converse but OP has already talked to her aunt (cousin's mom) and OP has previously expressed her disapproval of her cousin's lifestyle directly to her cousin already. At what point does OP accept her cousin has been given free will to practice her faith, beliefs, spirituality as she feels led.

But yes I'm aware.

Peace.

[Contra Mundum]

Originally Posted by CMatt25

At what point does OP accept her cousin has been given free will to practice her faith, beliefs, spirituality as she feels led.

This is one part of the story I think. OK, the cousin will decide in the end on how she's going to get married but the OP also has a decision to make, and that was her initial dilemma: whether to attend or not.
Of course, people are free to make all sorts of decisions but that doesn't mean that others have to be OK with it. It is one thing for the OP to wish her cousin happiness but a completely different issue when it comes to approving her actions. She doesn't have to do that. Standing up for the faith very often results in friction with other people. Jesus told us so, right?

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by Contra Mundum

This is one part of the story I think. OK, the cousin will decide in the end on how she's going to get married but the OP also has a decision to make, and that was her initial dilemma: whether to attend or not.
Of course, people are free to make all sorts of decisions but that doesn't mean that others have to be OK with it. It is one thing for the OP to wish her cousin happiness but a completely different issue when it comes to approving her actions. She doesn't have to do that. Standing up for the faith very often results in friction with other people. Jesus told us so, right?

Of course the OP has the right to attend or make another point of disapproving about her cousin's lifestyle and now her faith choices by not attending. I'm just not certain for a Catholic or anyone for that matter to attend a wedding of someone's whose faith or beliefs they do not share, constitutes giving approval of the other person's beliefs.

[Contra Mundum]

Originally Posted by CMatt25

I'm just not certain for a Catholic or anyone for that matter to attend a wedding of someone's whose faith or beliefs they do not share, constitutes giving approval of the other person's beliefs.

But as I understand it, the cousin does share the OP's faith. That's the problem in this situation.

[CMatt25]

Originally Posted by Contra Mundum

But as I understand it, the cousin does share the OP's faith. That's the problem in this situation.

Ok maybe I misunderstood then and the cousin holds to the same faith beliefs as faithfully as OP does.

[cmscms]

Originally Posted by katholicchik

IIt really, really, really eats away at me that she would just dump her upbringing and catholic faith for a wedding. I know it doesn't mean that she is turning her back on God or the church, but it just feels as though she is making very light of a sacrament. and has no desire to be in the church or have the Eucharist present etc. AND my biggest worry, she will in fact not want to correct the marriage in the church so she will just abandon it. And if I do not go, it will certainly send some message. But yes not sure if it will send that message or just seem to say I think I am awesome.

It hurts Jesus as if there is no tomorrow when people reject him, but he probably doesn't let it eat away at him. He realises people have their own free will.

It sounds like you have tried your best to let your cousin know the teachings of the Catholic church. You have done your job and now it is time to let it go and accept her decisions. I understand caring that our love ones are falling away from the church, but there is something unclear to me as to the manner in which you seem to care. A genuine concern would lead a Catholic to prayer, not uphill battle.

Also, I have NO idea what she decided as a teen she no longer wants to spend time with you. However, it has been my experience that trying to get a person to like you again after they have known you reallt well and grew away is often perceived as an annoyance to the said friend.

It hurts, I know it does. But your best bet right now is to accept her decision. To push the situation will fuel her dislike even more

If you wish to attend the wedding to get to at least see her and be part of a family get together, that is totally OK. It is really up to you. However, I would not hold out any hope that it will bring the friendship back

CM

[ThyKingdomCome]

A couple of thoughts:

1-while looking at which option will be more difficult can help you judge your motives, it is not your goal to do whichever is harder for you. The goal is to do whatever will be the most likely to further the Kingdom of God, if possible. Sometimes the thing that is easier, is also the right choice. Other times not. I'm not saying you don't understand this cl, but I thought the clarification would be helpful given the fair amount of discussion of which choice would be harder.

2-while it is true that there is room for discernment about whether or not it is ok to attend an invalid wedding, the two choices are not equal. The default position is that you would NOT attend such a wedding. There are exceptions to this rule in which prudence MIGHT dictate that attending will help you to further the Kingdom of God in the long run. But I think it is helpful to start with the idea of :I should not attend this wedding, first - and then see if the situation really warrants making an exception.

3.There is very little way (if any at all) to politely attend a wedding and reception without implying approval. First there is the receiving line - it will be very tricky to hug the new bride and groom without saying "Congratulations." Then there all the other interactions you might have with them. Then there is the entire reception - sitting at the table, while the other guests discuss the merits of the wedding, the merits of the couple, how they're so glad they're being "true to themselves" and not worrying about following silly rules, how making the day "special for the bride" is all that really matters, etc. etc. etc. For that matter, simply BEING there, smiling and clapping, indicates a happiness about the event (and happiness implies approval), even to people who you don't speak directly to.

4. Remember that you are called to be a witness to the faith - not just to the bride and groom, but to all people. So while remaining in the life of the bride could be a way to witness to her, you also have to consider what witness/lesson all the other family members will be taking from your actions. If you decide to go, will they get the message that this wedding must not be all that bad if even the wacky religious family member decides to go? Or will your charitable refusal to attend witness to them to following the rules of the church is so important that it is worth missing the wonderful wedding and risking alienation. Is it possible that some other guest at the wedding, maybe one who doesn't know you well enough to know you disagree with this wedding, but who knows you well enough to know that you are a practicing Catholic - is it possible that such a person might see you there and think "ah yes, so Catholics are ok with this sort of situation!" Will that person be deciding if THEY should have their wedding in a church, or will they be deciding how strongly they should encourage their child to marry in the church?

I know I sound like I'm stretching things a bit to go so far as to wonder about the ramifications of your decision of random guests at the wedding. But this is an illustration of scandal. I would say that one in this situation needs to consider the whole picture when making this decision. And you need to weigh the benefits of attending the wedding against the risk of scandal.

By the way, I'm not just saying this. I've been there. Twice. My dh's cousin got married in an invalid wedding (Catholic bride marrying a divorced with no anulment non catholic man, in a non Catholic ceremony) a few years ago. We went as far as agreeing to have our children be flower girl/ring bearer in the wedding before we learned about the details. Once we found out the situation (and I actually asked about this in "Ask an Apologist" and followed the advice of Fr. Serpa), we sent a letter to the cousin (because we were concerned that a phone call might become too emotional and because we wanted her to have our reasoning in writing so she could refer back to it in the future if she wished). In the letter, we expressed our love for her, our respect for her ability to make her own choices, our wishes for the best for her. And we explained briefly why this wedding wasn't allowed in the church, and in particular that we had an obligation to be true to our own faith - and that it we couldn't in good conscience attend or bring our children.

This did not happen in a supportive environment. We were the only people in our family who even was bothered by the situation, let alone decided not to attend. One family member became extremely angry at us and was really horrible about the whole situation. But we stayed true to our conscience, and guess what? Everyone got over it. We don't have any different relationship with anyone in the family than we did before the wedding, even though we bucked the status quo.

Then a year or two later, something similar happened with dh's sister - again an invalid wedding, this time with between his Catholic sister and a Catholic groom - who both could've/should've known better. We made the same judgment as before, and this time, had the conversation in person with the couple. No one had a fit or freaked out. In fact, they probably weren't surprised the second time around.

In the end, our relationships have not been hurt. And we have had some hints that seeds may have been planted. We are seen as the ones who make decisions based on right or wrong and not based on being liked. Even if we don't get a train of people following us, I think it is good to be a consistent presence that witnesses to the Truth.

As you can see, I lean heavily towards the "don't go" camp. I can't make the decision for you though. I wish you the best as you discern the best course.