Stillchecking;7933485]Wow, there's lots to respond to. We have different presuppositions. Your's is that the catholic church was the only church from the time of Christ to the reformation. You were not there in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc centuries. So you are not giving an eye witness account, but are relying upon what you read and have been told. People being what they are, independent thinkers, towns scattered far and wide, it is not even logical to assume there was only one church to which everyone bended their knee. There most certainly were christians outside the catholic church. Their names given to them by their assailants, they were called Paulicians, Arnoldists, Henricians, Petro Brussians, Albigenses, Waldenses, Ana-Baptists etc. Gee wiz there's plenty of history that has been written on this subject.
And wowwwww, there's a lot of gossip and innuendo you use to reply too.
The History is they're not Christian, check again. They use to be called heresy's and heretics and still are except the non-Catholics have raised them to New historical prominence.
To be Christian, is to believe/confess that Jesus is God’s Word made Flesh
: You really need to look things up prior to using them as 'proof'
[Contempt is hating something prior to investigation..... and that in my book is Sin.
No one is saying there weren't other church's with other beliefs but they were not Christian by the very definition. You haven't investigated the Roman Catholic Church, you believe without your own investigation, but rely on what you have heard about it from biased parties... yet you come into our community and tell us we are doing it all wrong? You know and only believe the stories told by non-Catholics.]
In the 2nd third centuries even in the first Century yes there were groups claiming to be Christian but not of Christ, Johns Gospel was written in defense of Christ as God in the flesh against Gnosticsm. and then there were the Judaizers who insisted on following Jewish law to be Christian. Most if not all of Pauls letters to the Church are against false teachings from people coming into the communities and preaching another Christ.
ooooo.. this is a very good example
(not named after the apostle)
Paulicans, 650 a.d
and 872 a.d in Armenia were a Christian Adoptionist sect
and militarized revolt movement
, also accused by medieval sources as Gnostic and quasi
Manichaean Christian. They flourished between 650 and 872 in Armenia and the Eastern Themes of the Byzantine Empire. According to medieval Byzantine sources, the group's name was derived after the third century Bishop of Antioch, Paul of Samosata.
Quasi: resembling/ seeming
, sometimes called dynamic monarchianism, is a minority Christian belief
that Jesus was adopted as God's son (Son of God) at his baptism.
The reverence for the Cross they looked upon as heathenish. The outward administration of the sacraments of the Lord's Supper and baptism they rejected.
while they maybe far out at least they believed we are saved by Christ's Baptism.
did he say minority Christian belief??? that's not christian at all!
But if this is from whence you congregation stems from, so be it. It's not Christian and it's certainly not Catholic.
Augustine was Manichean before he discovered the Truth
Manichæism is a religion founded by the Persian Mani in the latter half of the third century. It purported to be the true synthesis of all the religious systems then known, and actually consisted of Zoroastrian Dualism, ... As the theory of two eternal principles, good and evil, ... It would therefore mean "the illustrious
I love this example Anabaptists before the Reformation??? they were formed after the reformation 16th century and these followed in their steps..but all were break-offs of the Roman Church
Baptists, Quakers, Methodists, Moravians, and others...
More than four centuries ago in Zurich, Switzerland, a new fellowship of Christian believers was formed. Martin Luther had separated himself
from it but had continued the practice of infant baptism. Ulrich Zwingli also had separated from Romanism
, but continued to grant to the political rulers the right to decide the policies and practices of the church.
Arnoldisits: 'Bogolism' It may have originated in a form of Manichaen belief, itself a melange of Persian Zoroastrianism and early Christian Gnostic dualism (they often retained early Christian beliefs and practices that other strands of Christianity abandoned).
These people lived in some isolated valley in France, As Walter Mapp writing around 1182 says:
"Everywhere among Christians they have lain hidden since the time of the Lord's Passion, straying in error."
[There's a community I want to use as my Communities historical beginnings
So ya, my faith does not come from Rome or any of the reformed churches. My faith comes from the bible. My faith rejects those extra catholic teaching outside of the bible
They weren't extra!!! in fact Biblically based and practiced, But Luther removed six books from the Bible which went against his theology, James and Hebrews he also threw out.. but his constituents talked him out of it.
Hardly, the bible tells us man's history with God/ our Mistakes and how we overcame them.. Faith comes by Hearing.. someone taught you what they believed and what it has done for them.. it's called ' Witness'Without witness there'd be no bible at all. Your Bible come through the Authority Of Jesus Christ through His Living witness the Catholic Church. Before the Bible was the Catholic Church whom Jesus sent with all the authority of Heaven to be here when he returns.