What must I do to be saved?

[Rogare]

Originally Posted by pablope

[in his name.


Ignoring it? I did not, I said that is just one part or the beginning-to know who Christ is and to believe He is the son of God. John wrote to supplement the other Gospels.

You seem to focus only on John's or one section of John's Gospel.

I am simply highlighting John's Gospel because he plainly states: if you read what I have written, you will have enough information to believe that Christ is the Son of God and have life in His name.

and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (2 Timothy 3:15)


I remember this being discussed in another thread. I would repeat that this is the usual protestant tradition to miss v14, which states...

14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,

This speaks of oral teaching and guidance, not just scripture alone.

Friend, you are making this say what you want it to. A natural reading indicates that Paul is saying that the Scriptures are what can make Timothy wise unto salvation. Let me ask you this: what did Timothy learn aside from what was in the Scriptures that made Him wise unto salvation?

For this to be true, the Bible has to state it, right? So where does the Bible state this fact?

Where does the Bible say that Sacred Tradition is of equal authority to the Scriptures? The Bible speaks glowingly of itself as God's word; it doesn't have much positive to say about tradition.

Why is it out of context? Paul is speaking of what he taught, which he got from the Apostles-which later became Sacred Tradition, which predates any earliest writing of the NT and the Church surviving without Scripture for 400 years prior to the Bible being canonized.

The CC has understood the Bible for 1100 years prior to any protestant denomination.

So which or who do you think is being dishonest?

I would urge you to watch your words, and not label anything "dishonest". We may disagree and even though I disagree with some of your interpretations, I did not label anything as being dishonest.

In the immediate context, what is he speaking of? Why did he write 2 Thessalonians at all? He wrote it because they were bugging out over the second coming of Christ. The traditions Paul is speaking of concern what he had taught them about Christ's second coming. It has nothing to do with all the traditions that Church has added over the last 2000 years.

This verse speaks of the some aspects of Christ's life on earth. Correct, Christ handed the full deposit of faith to the Apostles, and the Church they built, which contains it and the CC proclaims this truth...and that is why the CC is the pillar and foundation of truth because Christ is the Truth.

I take it you hold a partim-partim view of Scripture. Tell me this; how on Earth did the Israelites ever figure out what Scripture was in the OT? They certainly didn't have an infallible Magisterium.

Keep in mind, when these epistles were written, their intended audience were already Christians, "saved" in your parlance and have received and believed the message of the Gospel.

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Who wrote Hebrews? Why did he write it? It's not 100% clear to whom Hebrews was intended for (aside from Hebrews ). We know there's no Church of Hebrews like there is the Church of Rome, Corinth, Galatia, etc. Therefore, it's impossible to say that Hebrews was written specifically for those that are saved. It is just as likely it is intended for unbelievers who were intellectually convinced of the gospel or those that were not yet convinced.

Who do you think are those who "have received the knowledge of the truth (heb 10)?

I have witnessed to my friend Rob many times. He has knowledge of the truth, yet he rejects it. Judas had received knowledge of the truth- He obviously was never saved.

Who do you think are those who "though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, (rom 11)?

I have discussed this elsewhere.

And who do you think are the following quotes being addressed to: "Otherwise, you also will be cut off "...."he will not spare you either"....."no sacrifice for sins is left".

I have addressed these elsewhere as well. I find God's word to be completely consistent. We can start a perseverance of the saints thread if you wish. Protestant theologians have addressed your "problems" for over half a millennium. Check out some good Protestant literature.

I am not that familiar with your reformed confessions, but I will say that God sees good in men, and wills all to salvation.

Where do you find support for these ideas?

Well, speaking of taking verses out of context, how did you come to the conclusion the thief was predestined?

If he was saved he was predestined unto salvation. It's that way with all the regenerate. We can discuss this in a different thread as well if you wish. A simple search on predestination will get you what you want.

It's okay to believe in predestination as a Catholic; Augustine and Aquinas both taught it