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Old Jun 27, '11, 4:41 am
StellaMaris3 StellaMaris3 is offline
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Lightbulb Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

Hello,

I'd like to know whether other Catholic vegans would like veganism to be considered the only viable diet and lifestyle choice for all Catholics.

I for one am championing this cause because I believe it is central to Christ's message (after all, he was crucified right after he freed the animals from the Temple/ Butchery stating "I desire Mercy not sacrifice".

It's time now that the Catholic Church helps return the vegan kingdom back to earth as the prophet Isaiah foretold. Jesus was a vegan, the disciples were vegan and so too the first Christians. LET'S END ANIMAL CRUELTY AND TORTURE. LET'S STOP ANIMAL SUFFERING. ANIMALS WANT TO LIVE!!!

What are your thoughts?

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3
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  #2  
Old Jun 27, '11, 9:00 am
StellaMaris3 StellaMaris3 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

PS I posted this elsewhere but thought it relevant to post here too:


Biblical and historical evidence clearly show that Jesus and the early Christians and Church Fathers were veg*ns. In fact, St Jerome, the Catholic writer of our first Bible i.e. Vulgate, was a veg*n!

Here are some more evidences:

1. There was no lamb as the Last Supper (the Passover meal), only bread and wine. This is not something a Jewish person would tolerate.

2. Jesus freed the animals in the Temple which really operated as a butchery, declaring, "I desire MERCY not sacrifice". He was taken into custody soon after and in that sense can be considered an animal liberator.

3. All the apostles were veg*n including Paul (he converted later).

4. It was only in the 300s AD that Constantine allowed meat eating in his "Christian kingdom". Before this time, Christians were veg*ns.

For example, historically cited early Christian veg*ns include:

- The Ebionites
- Clement of Alexandria
- Origen
- Tertullian
- Hieronymus
- Boniface
- St. Jerome
- John Chrysostom
- Basil the Great.

e.g. . Clement wrote, "It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. The Apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh".

5. Also, another early Christian document, Clementine Homiles (a second-century work based on the teachings of St. Peter) states: (Homily XII) "The unnatural eating of flesh meats is as polluting as the heathen worship of devils, with its sacrifices and its impure feasts, through participation in it a man becomes a fellow eater with devils".

6. In some early church writings, Matthew, Peter and James were cited as all veg*n. i.e. The apostle Matthew partook of seeds and nuts and vegetables without flesh.

7. Clement of Alexandria (The Instructor, book 2, chapter 1): Peter said, "I live on olives and bread to which I rarely only add vegetables."

8. Clement of Alexandria stated that sacrifices were invented by men to be a pretext for eating flesh.

9. James was said to be holy from his mothers womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh. Hegesippus, quoted in The Church History of Eusebius, book 2, chapter 23.

10. NOWHERE in the New Testament is Jesus depicted as eating flesh.

11. Saint Augustine stated: Jacobus lived of seeds and vegetables and did not accept meat or wine.

12. Saint Basil stated: The steam of meat meals darkens the spirit. One can hardly have virtue if one enjoys meat meals and feasts. In the earthly paradise, no one sacrificed animals, and no one ate meat.

13: Saint Jerome stated: The eating of meat was unknown up to the big flood, but since the flood they have the strings and stinking juices of animal meat into our mouths, just as they threw in front of the grumbling sensual people in the desert. Jesus Christ, who appeared when the time had been fulfilled, has again joined the end with the beginning, so that it is no longer allowed for us to eat animal meat.

14. St Francis of Assisi stated: All things of creation are children of the Father and thus brothers of man, God wants us to help animals, if they need help. Every creature in distress has the same right to be protected.


There's much more evidence which I can post later. As you can see, veg*nism is clearly a Catholic Tradition and ALL CATHOLICS SHOULD BE VEGAN!!! Please help to stop animal suffering and stop animal torture by becoming a veg*n. Animals want to live for their own reasons. If we are kind to animals, then we will be kind to humanity too : ) The prophet Isaiah foretold that this is God's Divine Will: a vegan Heaven on earth.

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3
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Old Jun 27, '11, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by StellaMaris3 View Post
PS I posted this elsewhere but thought it relevant to post here too:


Biblical and historical evidence clearly show that Jesus and the early Christians and Church Fathers were veg*ns. In fact, St Jerome, the Catholic writer of our first Bible i.e. Vulgate, was a veg*n!

Here are some more evidences:
2. Jesus freed the animals in the Temple which really operated as a butchery, declaring, "I desire MERCY not sacrifice". He was taken into custody soon after and in that sense can be considered an animal liberator.

3. All the apostles were veg*n including Paul (he converted later).

4. It was only in the 300s AD that Constantine allowed meat eating in his "Christian kingdom". Before this time, Christians were veg*ns.

For example, historically cited early Christian veg*ns include:

- The Ebionites
- Clement of Alexandria
- Origen
- Tertullian
- Hieronymus
- Boniface
- St. Jerome
- John Chrysostom
- Basil the Great.

e.g. . Clement wrote, "It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. The Apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh".

6. In some early church writings, Matthew, Peter and James were cited as all veg*n. i.e. The apostle Matthew partook of seeds and nuts and vegetables without flesh.

7. Clement of Alexandria (The Instructor, book 2, chapter 1): Peter said, "I live on olives and bread to which I rarely only add vegetables."

8. Clement of Alexandria stated that sacrifices were invented by men to be a pretext for eating flesh.

9. James was said to be holy from his mothers womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh. Hegesippus, quoted in The Church History of Eusebius, book 2, chapter 23.

10. NOWHERE in the New Testament is Jesus depicted as eating flesh.

11. Saint Augustine stated: Jacobus lived of seeds and vegetables and did not accept meat or wine.

12. Saint Basil stated: The steam of meat meals darkens the spirit. One can hardly have virtue if one enjoys meat meals and feasts. In the earthly paradise, no one sacrificed animals, and no one ate meat.

13: Saint Jerome stated: The eating of meat was unknown up to the big flood, but since the flood they have the strings and stinking juices of animal meat into our mouths, just as they threw in front of the grumbling sensual people in the desert. Jesus Christ, who appeared when the time had been fulfilled, has again joined the end with the beginning, so that it is no longer allowed for us to eat animal meat.



There's much more evidence which I can post later. As you can see, veg*nism is clearly a Catholic Tradition and ALL CATHOLICS SHOULD BE VEGAN!!! Please help to stop animal suffering and stop animal torture by becoming a veg*n. Animals want to live for their own reasons. If we are kind to animals, then we will be kind to humanity too : ) The prophet Isaiah foretold that this is God's Divine Will: a vegan Heaven on earth.

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3
Hi,

I would love for all Catholics to be vegan, but some small minor areas of the world it may not be possible, so I would be hesitant to see it mandated, as it was, according to your references in the early Church.

You have some fascinatin references; what books are you getting them from? Early Church fathers?

Looking at #10, are you stating Jesus was a vegan?
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Old Jun 30, '11, 9:26 am
StellaMaris3 StellaMaris3 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

Hi CreationLover,

Thanks for your reply once again

You''ve made an interesting comment. One that would most definitely resonate with many non-vegans as a plausible justification for preventing the wholesale abolition of animal cruelty and torture. But I say this in defense of universal vegansim: just as slavery was/is an immoral practice that was once widely and vocally supported, so too will the practice of butchering and eating/ hurting animals (now currently tolerated), be seen as utterly barbaric and deprave. Animal cruelty and the meat industry will be viewed as one of the darkest epochs/ practices of human history.

In my own understanding of what God has intended (via the prophecy of Isaiah for a future vegan kingdom, Jesus' merciful action in the temple/ butchery and apostolic tradition), ALL life is sacred.

Moreover, in this day and age, no matter where people live, people have access to food as supermarkets are ubiquitous (that is, unless they're very poor and thus they would certainly be vegan -- as the very poor don't eat meat).

In this way, I can't see how any animal suffering can be justified. The problem is that animals have for far too long been looked upon erroneously as "food" instead of God's beloved creation.

Animals are not food. This is an evil conditioning. Therefore, in no way should people look at animals as a food source. (NB Btw, I don't believe in preserving my own life at the expense of an animal's life, I believe in preserving mercy, goodness and love at any price, including my own life. This is a vegan position). However, there's no need to forsake one's own life to become a vegan. In fact, the wonderful part about being a vegan (especially a mostly raw, organic vegan), is that it endows you with longevity, health and happiness!!! And vegan cuisine is sooooo delicious too

Yes, being vegan makes you healthy. I'm sure you know that too CreationLover ! And, you'll also know that it's an easy choice to make and simple to do (if done properly and nutritiously). There are soooo many yummy vegan products and lovely fresh fruits and vegetables to choose from. There are even outstanding vegan meat replacements for people that like the taste of meat. So there's really no excuse whatsoever not being vegan -- not for taste, not for ethics, not for biblical precedence, not for apostolic tradition and certainly not in the name of Jesus. Being vegan is inherently Catholic & Jesus-centered!

Besides, meat and dairy are closely linked to cancer, diabetes, heart disease and other illnesses. In fact, it's loaded with hormones, pesticide, heavy metals, putrefaction, bacteria, virus, antibiotics and who knows what else?! Why on earth would people eat meat & dairy.

As for the references, I obtained them from Christian vegan/ vegetarian websites, Catholic websites and animal activist websites. You can also find them in animal rights handbooks. I will post some book references and websites for you.

Pax vobis,
StellaMaris3

Last edited by StellaMaris3; Jun 30, '11 at 9:38 am.
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Old Jun 30, '11, 11:12 am
StellaMaris3 StellaMaris3 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

PS Re Jesus

Yes, I am stating that Jesus was a vegan (possibly a vegetarian). There is ABSOLUTELY NO Biblical evidence of him EVER eating flesh of any kind and his disciples all forsook flesh too. They were all vegan (possibly vegetarian) and so too the first Christians and early Church Fathers, (including the writer of the first Catholic Bible, St Jerome). As you can see, the evidence in favor of veganism is utterly and unequivocally valid and compelling.
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Old Jun 30, '11, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

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Originally Posted by StellaMaris3 View Post
PS Re Jesus

Yes, I am stating that Jesus was a vegan (possibly a vegetarian). There is ABSOLUTELY NO Biblical evidence of him EVER eating flesh of any kind and his disciples all forsook flesh too. They were all vegan (possibly vegetarian) and so too the first Christians and early Church Fathers, (including the writer of the first Catholic Bible, St Jerome). As you can see, the evidence in favor of veganism is utterly and unequivocally valid and compelling.
As creationlover noted, this becoms a point of conflict sometimes, what Jesus ate or didn't eat... Having been raised a devout Jew there are many who would argue that he must have eaten lamb, and the several scriptural references to meals which included fish....

BUT --- What is absolutely true is that Jesus or the disciples, or members of the early church OR even our own great grandparents never ate meat raised on factory farms which are cruel, cause degredation to the environment, the water and land.... So yes TODAY I think an informed Catholic should consider moving to a plant based diet out of care for the gifts God has given to all of us living today and generations to come... And I believe the teaching of the Church support this.

God bless
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Old Jul 2, '11, 3:18 am
StellaMaris3 StellaMaris3 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

Hi 4Elise,

Thanks for your reply

However, there were many Jewish sects that were vegan.This is a fact. One famous example are the Essenes which some scholars believe Jesus was an adherent . Even John the Baptist did not eat flesh.

So this is a mistaken belief i.e. that all Jews ate meat not founded in fact. In contrast, all the scriptural evidence and Church Father testimonies support that Jesus was a vegan. That's why all the apostles including Paul converted to a vegan possibly vegetarian diet. And there are many non-scriptural evidences that directly state Jesus was a vegan. I think perhaps Constantine made sure these direct quotes of Jesus being a vegan were kept out of public knowledge.

Other quotes (which I posted elsewhere but thought relevant to paste here too include the following):

Vegan/ vegetarianism: Original Ideal and Ultimate Hope

And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food".
Genesis 1:29-30

Then I will make a covenant on behalf of Israel with the wild beasts, the birds of the air, and the things that creep on the earth, and I will break bow and sword and weapon of war and sweep them off the earth so that all living creatures may lie down without fear.
Hosea 2:18

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
And the calf and the lion and the fatling together,
And a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall feed;
Their young shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The suckling child shall play over the hole of the asp,
And the weaned child shall put his hand on the adders den.
They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain;
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.
Isaiah 11:6-9

He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.
Revelations 21:4

God Cares About Animals
The Lord is good to all men, and his tender care rests upon all his creatures.
Psalms 145:9

Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow and reap and store in barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them.
Matthew 6:26

God Wants Us To Care About Animals

A righteous man cares for his beast.
Proverbs 12:10

When you see the donkey of someone who hates you lying helpless under its load, however unwilling you may be to help it, you must give him a hand with it.
Exodus 23:5

When you see your fellow countrymans donkey or ox lying on the road, do not ignore it; you must help him to lift it to its feet again.
Deuteronomy 22:4

He who slaughters an ox is like him who kills a man.
Isaiah 66:3

Animal Sacrifices Are Rejected by God
The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the LORD.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
The offer of your gifts is useless, the reek of sacrifice is abhorrent to me.
Isaiah 1:11-12

There is blood on your hands; wash yourselves and be clean.
Isaiah 1:16

For a desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God, rather than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6

If you had known what that text means, "I require mercy, not sacrifice", you would not have condemned the innocent.
Matthew 12:7

Sacrifices were invented by men to be a pretext for eating flesh.
Clement of Alexandria

Other Christian Testimony
The eating of meat was unknown up to the big flood, but since the flood they have the strings and stinking juices of animal meat into our mouths, just as they threw in front of the grumbling sensual people in the desert. Jesus Christ, who appeared when the time had been fulfilled, has again joined the end with the beginning, so that it is no longer allowed for us to eat animal meat.
St Jerome

The steam of meat meals darkens the spirit. One can hardly have virtue if one enjoys meat meals and feasts. In the earthly paradise there was no wine, no one sacrificed animals, and no one ate meat.
St Basil

All things of creation are children of the Father and thus brothers of man ... God wants us to help animals, if they need help. Every creature in distress has the same right to be protected.
St Francis of Assisi

Let no one regard as light the burden of his responsibility. While so much ill-treatment of animals goes on, while the moans of thirsty animals in railway trucks sound unheard, while so much brutality prevails in our slaughterhouses ... we all bear guilt. Everything that lives has value as a living thing, as one of the manifestations of the mystery that is life.
Albert Schweitzer (not Catholic but a Christian).

Lastly, Id like to state it's great to hear you support a Catholicism that supports vegan/vegetarian principles.And I'd like to say a BIG THANK YOU !! for starting this important discussion group Elise It's so wonderful that YOU created this platform on Catholic.com !!!!

Dominus vobis,
StellaMaris3
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Old Jul 19, '11, 12:14 pm
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

John the Baptist was not a Vegan. He ate locusts, which are animals (insects), and interestingly enough, not Kosher!

If Peter was a Vegan, it is interesting as he was a fisherman. And Jesus helped him bring in a large haul when the nets came up empty. Jesus also multiplied the fish for folks to eat. If he wanted to preach on or promote Veganism, he had a perfect teaching moment there.

I think Veganism is a wonderful and healthy concept for those privileged enough to carry out. However in many parts of the world, the poor eat whatever the poor can get their hands on - whale blubber is a main food source for some Inuit who cannot grow fresh produce. Fish is a main food source for poor people who live in coastal areas and do not own land to grow plants and have no money to buy fresh produce. Some tribes in Africa survive on the milk and blood carefully drained from live livestock as the land is too dry to grow crops.

The human body is an amazingly adaptive creature and often survives and indeed thrives on what we in the West might consider an unhealthy reliance on one particular type of food.
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Old Jul 19, '11, 4:42 pm
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

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John the Baptist was not a Vegan. He ate locusts, which are animals (insects), and interestingly enough, not Kosher!

If Peter was a Vegan, it is interesting as he was a fisherman. And Jesus helped him bring in a large haul when the nets came up empty. Jesus also multiplied the fish for folks to eat. If he wanted to preach on or promote Veganism, he had a perfect teaching moment there.

I think Veganism is a wonderful and healthy concept for those privileged enough to carry out. However in many parts of the world, the poor eat whatever the poor can get their hands on - whale blubber is a main food source for some Inuit who cannot grow fresh produce. Fish is a main food source for poor people who live in coastal areas and do not own land to grow plants and have no money to buy fresh produce. Some tribes in Africa survive on the milk and blood carefully drained from live livestock as the land is too dry to grow crops.

The human body is an amazingly adaptive creature and often survives and indeed thrives on what we in the West might consider an unhealthy reliance on one particular type of food.
I agree. And I am a vegan.
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Old Jul 19, '11, 10:47 pm
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

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I agree. And I am a vegan.
Me too.
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Old Sep 25, '11, 2:52 pm
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

I always thought Luke 24:41-43 stated explicitly that Jesus at least ate fish. Here's an interesting rebuttal.
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Old Sep 28, '11, 3:31 pm
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Talking Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

According to Genesis humans were originally VEGAN. Original Sin ended this dietary status.

The human body is meant to last 120 years. However, a diet filled with animal flesh and blood cut the life expectancy by at least 20 years. Other factors such as disease and sanitation cut the expectancy even further.

Can vegetarians or near vegetarians approach or surpass 100 years old? YES! Jack LaLane, an Episcopal because his mother left Catholicism, died last year at 96!

Vegetarianism, esp. veganism, eliminates animal flesh-caused diseases. CNN showed that earlier this month or last month.
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Old Oct 13, '11, 9:41 am
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

Proud Vegan here. God Bless
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Old Oct 19, '11, 2:24 am
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by StellaMaris3 View Post
PS I posted this elsewhere but thought it relevant to post here too:


Biblical and historical evidence clearly show that Jesus and the early Christians and Church Fathers were veg*ns. In fact, St Jerome, the Catholic writer of our first Bible i.e. Vulgate, was a veg*n!

Here are some more evidences:
That's amazing.

Every group of people wants Jesus to be similar to them. There are black groups saying He was black, feminist groups saying He was female (God forbid!), Russian nationalists stating He was Russian, Nazi followers declaring Him being of "Arian origin". Now another revelation! He was a Vegan.

FYI, He was male carnivore (actually, omnivore as most people are) of Jewish origin, as were most of the Apostles. He was a religious Jew, and religious Jews eat lamb with bitter herbs on Passover. Lamb. Not carrot. He was feeding people with fish and bread, not cabbage. As for the freeing livestock at the Temple, He was kicking salesmen out together with their livestock because they turned the Temple into a marketplace, not because He wanted to save the animals.

Lastly, animal sacrifices in the Temple were an obligatory part of Jewish worship at that time.

By the way, if people are supposed to be vegan, why you have fangs?
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Old Oct 19, '11, 2:37 am
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Default Re: Catholic Veganism: All Catholics should be vegan!

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I always thought Luke 24:41-43 stated explicitly that Jesus at least ate fish. Here's an interesting rebuttal.
This is beautiful. I like this way of argumentation.

Quote:
This is the only passage in the entire New Testament where we are told that Jesus in fact ATE MEAT.
There is NO passage in the New Testament where we are told that Jesus:

1. Ate rice, garlic, onion, carrot, cabbage and many other vegetables and fruit.
2. Did many other things He was supposed to do as a human being.

And?

By the way, to date there has been no passage whatsoever anywhere in the World stating that I, DenisS, eat meat. However, I do eat meat, and have been eating meat all my life.
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