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  #46  
Old Aug 15, '11, 3:32 pm
otjm otjm is offline
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Default Re: was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnridgway View Post
Thanks for this, but it does sound very unfair,
A man who is a Roman Catholic and married may not become a priest.
A man who is a priest, either Roman, Eastern or Orthodox, may not marry
.
yet a convert who is married can become a priest.
There are numerous people who feel the same. However, the tradition of not remarrying (after the death of the wife) goes back, it appears, to the earliest Church. And even that rule is not absolute within the Eastern rite (and I would suspect potentially in the Latin rite); where a married priest has young children and the wife dies, with permission he may remarry again in the Eastern rites (or at least in some of them); and I suspect that may occur in the Latin rite among deacons should it occur (I have not heard of specific instances).

It is, however, a really long standing tradition, as in, not likely to change.

I would bet that we would be more likely to see the Latin rite marry ordained men before we ever saw a lifiting of the rule of no remarriage; and as to the odds of the Latin rite, well, we would all probably do better at the craps table in Las Vegas.
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  #47  
Old Aug 15, '11, 3:41 pm
otjm otjm is offline
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Default Re: was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

[quote=InquisitorMax]The idea that, because something was the case in the ancient Church, it should be reverted to, and can be reverted to, without negative consequence, is a bad one.[quote]And the idea that because the early Church did something one way and the alter church did it another way, that the latter is better than the former is also a bad one. those who are hidebound to what occurred 75 years ago too often bring out the charge simply because they don't like change. The Church is our guide; not some self-proclaimed psuedo magisterial theologian; it is also our guide, not some self-proclaimed, psuedo magisterial psuedo theologian. We have had enough problems on both ends of that spectrum; priests and bishops playing fast and loose, and laity critiquing the Church from their own perspective. Both lack a firm foundation in what the Church thinks and does.
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  #48  
Old Aug 15, '11, 3:53 pm
otjm otjm is offline
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Default Re: was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

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Originally Posted by Jim27290 View Post
The Ordinariate creating a "protestant/Catholic mix"??



Most of the Ordinariate have been Roman Catholic in every way (vestments, incense, sanctus bells, prayers for the Pope, Saints, Mariology, doctrine) except open communion with Rome since the Oxford Movement... the only difference now is that they are in communion with the Pope rather than just sending him a Christmas card each year.

Personally I don't quite understand them, in my book if you believe what Rome teaches and worship the same as Rome and want to become part of the Roman Catholic church then go on ahead and join it! I don't think you need to wait until they make a whole hoo haa and create special categories for you...
Again, a bit of history; Trent suppressed rites within the Latin rite that were not at least 200 years old. Many assume, incorrectly that after Trent the Latin rite was one and unique. It wasn't; there were a handful of rites (among them, the Dominican) which survived Trent; and if I recall correctly, the rite which the Anglicans used was one of those rites. I don't pay a great deal of attention to the matter - isn't their rite referred to as the Saurum rite? and so there is nothing particularly strange about the issue; it is just that most Latin rite Catholics know little of their own history.

So they have joined it; but just as an Orthodox group could (and many have) joined the Church does not mean they should give up their rite either. In fact, prior to Vatican 2 many of the Eastern rite churches were being forced into Latinization, something that John Paul 2 made perfectly crystal clear was not to continue. So iot is certainly of the mind of the recent Church (JP2 and since) that the ancient rites are to be honored, not done away with. As another poster said, universal does not mean identical. There not only is no harm in allowing the Anglicans to continue their rite (corrected for any straying previously), but wealth to the Church in encouraging it to continue. your position would be a bit akin to saying that anyone who wanted to be a monk has to be a Benedictine.
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  #49  
Old Aug 15, '11, 4:12 pm
otjm otjm is offline
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Default Re: was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

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Originally Posted by Jim27290 View Post
As a Protestant I consider that part of my job description... on some points at least
Welcome to the forum!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim27290 View Post
I fail to see how a group of Anglicans who were Roman Catholic in all but name will bring anything new to Rome considering the majority of them have been aping it's missal and it's worship/beliefs since the late 1900's.
There is more to Catholicism then the missal and beliefs. Tradition with a small "t" is important to, while distinguishable fro Tradition with a "T". Practice is also important, and within the Western World Catholic Church, practice has it s problems; those who actually practice what the Church professes (and here I refer primarily to morals) is of vital importance.



.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim27290 View Post
how many have joined the Ordinariate here in my native Ireland (North and South)?? The answer is NONE.
Which proves what? Not a lot. No one is expecting this to occur within a month, or a year; it will be an on-going process for some time. As to Ireland - North or South - unless and until we have a count of how many High Anglican parishes there are, the question is essentially without substance. If there are none, then what is the surprise? None at all. If there are some, then one would sit and watch - for a number of years, perhaps. Rome doesn't expect this to be a one time event; why should we?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim27290 View Post
.. though I would disagree that differences in worship style and/or liturgy is the proof that the church is universal.
And why is it not evidence of universality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim27290 View Post
But something I will say is that there's not many Roman Catholics left in Ireland who would say he's doing a great job.
That was said in the US when the fur hit the fan over sexual abuse. However, the statement was the creation of the news services, who were simply editorializing rather than actually doing any research. People who react emotionally are generally not a reliable source of judgement on a whole lot of issues; and when those people are relying on secular media and secular politicians for judgements, they are not doing research; they are simply giving a knee-jerk reaction. Let's stick to the topic of Anglicans; I would certainly invite a different thread concerning Irish attitudes about the Pope.
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  #50  
Old Aug 16, '11, 1:47 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: was the compromise of the catholic faith a compromise to much?

Quote:
how many have joined the Ordinariate here in my native Ireland (North and South)?? The answer is NONE.
Yes, but it might be helpful for the readers to understand the history of the Church of Ireland to put that into context don't you think?
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