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Sep 22, '11, 2:55 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: September 21, 2011
Posts: 56
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Re: Why is Cardinal Scola's Pallium upside down? (also is this the first time it's ever been given outside of Mass?)
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Originally Posted by PazzoGrande
I wondered if the Pope gave Scola a special conferral so as to signal something.
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I see an awkward fumbling with a flimsy garment that's hard to figure out unless it's handed to you in a certain way.
I've seen this sort of thing happen before.
- handing someone the wrong diploma,
- putting a crown on the king's head crooked,
- gloved hands slipping off the coffin handles and the coffin hits the sidewalk corner-first with a huge crunch,
- dropping the wedding rings on the floor and having them roll in two different directions down the altar steps and under the pews.
It's the sort of thing you see but you just move on and pretend it never happened; you joke about it at the reception afterward. "I may have taken your exam, but I won't take your diploma." "His Majesty's government leans a little to the left as well." "Uncle Bart started turning in his coffin long before he was in the grave!" "Our rings were more scared than we were!"
But if you want to make up an edifying legend about it, how about saying that it was put on upside down deliberately because wearing the pallium isn't about the ceremony, it's about your responsibility and your teaching authority?
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Sep 22, '11, 3:52 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,022
Religion: Catholic. God's a Texas fan: He made sunsets burnt orange.
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Re: Cardinal Scola
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Originally Posted by JGMendes4049
Sometimes, when an archbishop is appointed to a diocese where the ordinary is usually a bishop, the Pope gives him the title of archbishop ad personam, so that they're called the Archbishop-Bishop of Anydiocese.
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But those archbishops aren't metropolitans and aren't entitled to the pallium without some kind of dispensation. Same thing with titular archbishops and archbishops of non-metropolitical archdioceses.
The pallium is the exclusive vestment of a metropolitan.
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Sep 22, '11, 4:00 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,022
Religion: Catholic. God's a Texas fan: He made sunsets burnt orange.
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Re: Why is Cardinal Scola's Pallium upside down? (also is this the first time it's ever been given outside of Mass?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorDominican
But if you want to make up an edifying legend about it, how about saying that it was put on upside down deliberately because wearing the pallium isn't about the ceremony, it's about your responsibility and your teaching authority?
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The pallium is not a symbol of teaching authority. It is a symbol of metropolitical authority. A metropolitan is first among equals in his province. The pallium symbolizes that primacy of honor. Otherwise, the metropolitan of a province has the same teaching authority as the bishops of the suffragan dioceses in his province. Example: Daniel Cardinal DiNardo, Archbishop of Galveston-Houston and Metropolitan of the Galveston-Houston Province has no more teaching authority than Bishop Daniel Flores of the Diocese of Brownsville. However, when the Cardinal visits the Diocese of Brownsville, he wears his pallium to indicate his primacy of place over Bishop Flores.
At least that is the way I understand it.
The exception would be the pope's pallium. In that case, it is a sign of his Petrine Ministry.
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Sep 22, '11, 4:07 pm
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Join Date: September 4, 2011
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Re: Why is Cardinal Scola's Pallium upside down? (also is this the first time it's ever been given outside of Mass?)
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Originally Posted by PacoG
The pallium is not a symbol of teaching authority. It is a symbol of metropolitical authority. A metropolitan is first among equals in his province. The pallium symbolizes that primacy of honor. Otherwise, the metropolitan of a province has the same teaching authority as the bishops of the suffragan dioceses in his province. Example: Daniel Cardinal DiNardo, Archbishop of Galveston-Houston and Metropolitan of the Galveston-Houston Province has no more teaching authority than Bishop Daniel Flores of the Diocese of Brownsville. However, when the Cardinal visits the Diocese of Brownsville, he wears his pallium to indicate his primacy of place over Bishop Flores.
At least that is the way I understand it.
The exception would be the pope's pallium. In that case, it is a sign of his Petrine Ministry.
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I think VictorDominican wrote that as a joke, not meant to be taken seriously, that it was just a way of putting symbolism on a mistake.
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Sep 22, '11, 4:48 pm
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Join Date: March 11, 2011
Posts: 887
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Why is Cardinal Scola's Pallium upside down? (also is this the first time it's ever been given outside of Mass?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PazzoGrande
I'd assume it's because it was just handed to him upside down and he didn't pay attention as it went on. Not every little mistake is because of the burdens of running the Church.
He does work hard but I think we're reading too much into it when we make it as if everything is a little martyrdom.
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You're probably right.
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Sep 22, '11, 7:05 pm
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Join Date: May 10, 2011
Posts: 1,257
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Cardinal Scola
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoG
But those archbishops aren't metropolitans and aren't entitled to the pallium without some kind of dispensation. Same thing with titular archbishops and archbishops of non-metropolitical archdioceses.
The pallium is the exclusive vestment of a metropolitan.
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I'm talking about the title, not the pallium here. Metropolitans who become non-arch bishops or non-metropolitan archbishops lose their right to use the pallium.
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Sep 22, '11, 7:51 pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: July 21, 2010
Posts: 166
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Why is Cardinal Scola's Pallium upside down? (also is this the first time it's ever been given outside of Mass?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PazzoGrande
The Holy Father put the pallium on him upside-down. Was that just a mistake, or was that done for a reason? (I also noticed he sometimes puts on the biretta incorrectly when he puts it on a new Cardinal, so I guess it could just be a mistake.) Also, was this the first time the Holy Father gave a Pallium outside of the regular Pallium Mass?
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I'm in the "just a mistake" camp.
As far as presenting the pallium outside of the regular Pallium Mass, according to Father Guy Selvester, the Pallium Mass is a recent tradition while conferral of the pallium to individual metropolitans shortly after their appointments is the older tradition. http://omniapost.blogspot.com/2011/0...um-custom.html
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Sep 23, '11, 3:46 am
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Banned
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Join Date: August 14, 2011
Posts: 226
Religion: Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic
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Re: Why is Cardinal Scola's Pallium upside down? (also is this the first time it's ever been given outside of Mass?)
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Originally Posted by PazzoGrande
Nevertheless, in cases like that, I'd think it would be either given to a delegate or the person would just have to wait for the one next year.
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The pallium cannot be given to a delegate.
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I wondered if the Pope gave Scola a special conferral so as to signal something. They say that when he nominated Scola to Milan, it was him signalling that he would favour Scola's candidacy to become the next pope; if that's so, this special treatment could be the Holy Father underlining that.
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It is improper for a Pope to suggest who should be his successor.
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Sep 23, '11, 3:50 am
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Banned
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Join Date: August 14, 2011
Posts: 226
Religion: Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic
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Re: Cardinal Scola
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMendes4049
Sometimes, when an archbishop is appointed to a diocese where the ordinary is usually a bishop, the Pope gives him the title of archbishop ad personam, so that they're called the Archbishop-Bishop of Anydiocese. Is it possible that Cardinal Scola will be given the title of patriarch ad personam, becoming the Patriarch-Archbishop of Milan? Is there any precedent of a situation like this happening?
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The title of patriarch is never conferred ad personam.
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Sep 23, '11, 4:55 am
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Religion: Syro-Maronite ("old style")
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Re: Why is Cardinal Scola's Pallium upside down? (also is this the first time it's ever been given outside of Mass?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diakonia
The pallium cannot be given to a delegate.
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Yes, that's true but in the past, at least, IIRC it was not unusual for a pope to send the pallium rather than personally confer it.
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Sep 23, '11, 3:00 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: September 21, 2011
Posts: 56
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Re: Why is Cardinal Scola's Pallium upside down? (also is this the first time it's ever been given outside of Mass?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoG
The pallium is not a symbol of teaching authority.
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I thought a pallium was originally the uniform of a philosopher, hence teaching authority.
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