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  #1  
Old Oct 3, '11, 12:59 pm
DL82 DL82 is offline
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Default Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Is there humility in accepting that the market knows best in assigning a high (6 figure) salary to research consultants, but a lower (c. $50k) salary to teaching at a small ecumenical Catholic/Anglican college?

The second, which makes enough to live comfortably, is a definite possibility. The first, which I could get if I were motivated to work for it, could be an option in a year or two.

As a married man, is it objectively better always to go for the job that would provide the best material benefits for my family, even if it means 80 hour weeks with lots of travel, instead of 30 hour weeks in a friendly campus environment. (The 'its not worth it if you die of a heart attack' argument is a red herring, btw, as big consultancy firms take good care of their assets, with good healthcare, on-site gyms, and I would take out a multi-million dollar insurance policy just to be safe.)
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  #2  
Old Oct 3, '11, 2:15 pm
Catholic1954 Catholic1954 is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

As long as it is good, honest work, that you enjoy, and can comfortably support your family, it doesn't matter how much money you make. Go for the bucks (or whatever they call it in Scotland) and don't forget Catholic Charities!
  #3  
Old Oct 3, '11, 2:29 pm
jhynds jhynds is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

I did the early in life 6-figure route and in a perfect world, i wish i'd gone a smaller route.
I am not sure my spouse would be the same person, as we met in my high paying industry & after i was making good money. I idealize the 30 hour week and lower pay as being less stressful, and while i have what are called financial opportunities, I miss the calm of not ever really turning off the career, not even on the weekends or vacation.... I also traveled a lot. When i was single it was great, when i got married i could not "just stop" traveling. I had to seek non traveling management roles in order to stay home more.
So, if at the end of the day you can go for a walk with a loved one and both of you are happy.... go that route.
  #4  
Old Oct 3, '11, 2:39 pm
DL82 DL82 is offline
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Red face Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhynds View Post
I did the early in life 6-figure route and in a perfect world, i wish i'd gone a smaller route.
I am not sure my spouse would be the same person, as we met in my high paying industry & after i was making good money. I idealize the 30 hour week and lower pay as being less stressful, and while i have what are called financial opportunities, I miss the calm of not ever really turning off the career, not even on the weekends or vacation.... I also traveled a lot. When i was single it was great, when i got married i could not "just stop" traveling. I had to seek non traveling management roles in order to stay home more.
So, if at the end of the day you can go for a walk with a loved one and both of you are happy.... go that route.
This presumes that my wife and I consider going for a walk and being happy to be our highest value. Our highest value is to provide the best (materially and spiritually) for our children. If I am away 6 days in 7 but can come home, resolve any discipline issues with the kids, take them to Mass and then out for lunch, before kissing goodbye to my wife and knowing that I have provided what she needs to homeschool our kids or send them to the best private Catholic school in the area, if my kids can see a father who is willing to sacrifice for them and for the objective pursuit of the best, we will be happy.
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Old Oct 3, '11, 2:51 pm
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Rascalking Rascalking is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DL82 View Post
This presumes that my wife and I consider going for a walk and being happy to be our highest value. Our highest value is to provide the best (materially and spiritually) for our children. If I am away 6 days in 7 but can come home, resolve any discipline issues with the kids, take them to Mass and then out for lunch, before kissing goodbye to my wife and knowing that I have provided what she needs to homeschool our kids or send them to the best private Catholic school in the area, if my kids can see a father who is willing to sacrifice for them and for the objective pursuit of the best, we will be happy.
Woah! You can't travel 6 or 7 days a week and provide a home for your family. My old man traveled quite a bit (Usually Tuesday-Thursday, sometimes more) but he would NEVER be gone as much as what your saying.

There is a middle ground here.
  #6  
Old Oct 3, '11, 3:01 pm
DL82 DL82 is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

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Originally Posted by Rascalking View Post
Woah! You can't travel 6 or 7 days a week and provide a home for your family. My old man traveled quite a bit (Usually Tuesday-Thursday, sometimes more) but he would NEVER be gone as much as what your saying.

There is a middle ground here.
Maybe some hyperbole there, I don't expect to have to travel that much, but even if I did, I would do it, because there are objective goods to marriage other than feeling good and spending time taking long walks together.
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Old Oct 3, '11, 3:08 pm
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DL82 View Post
Maybe some hyperbole there, I don't expect to have to travel that much, but even if I did, I would do it, because there are objective goods to marriage other than feeling good and spending time taking long walks together.
Well, I'm not going to tell you how to run your life or your marriage. Do whatever you want.

What I will say is that I virtually guarantee that you'll make your life miserable and put your kids and marriage in jeopardy if you dedicate yourself to working those hours.

My view of marriage is different than yours. Yes, I know it's not about long walks and feeling good, but that stuff does matter.
  #8  
Old Oct 3, '11, 3:28 pm
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NiceMimi NiceMimi is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Been there, done that. My two cents: go for the job at the college. Live within your means at that salary. Come up with creative ways to come up with the extra money, and you won't regret it.
  #9  
Old Oct 3, '11, 4:26 pm
Reepicheep Reepicheep is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Will the high-paying job leave you time to be with your wife?
Will you be able to spend as much time as you want with your children?
Which do you think your wife and children will want -- more money or more time with you?
Which do you think you will want -- more money or more time with them?
I advise you to base your decision on your answers to these questions.
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  #10  
Old Oct 3, '11, 5:29 pm
bstorm bstorm is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

I assume you are thinking about being a tenure-track college professor - is that correct? Or are you talking about a non-tenure track position? Are you sure that would translate to a 30-hour work week only? What would be your teaching/service/research load like? Sounds to me like you are idealizing the life of a college professor. I would not recommend anybody to get a teaching job thinking it would translate to an easy, relaxed life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DL82 View Post
Is there humility in accepting that the market knows best in assigning a high (6 figure) salary to research consultants, but a lower (c. $50k) salary to teaching at a small ecumenical Catholic/Anglican college?

The second, which makes enough to live comfortably, is a definite possibility. The first, which I could get if I were motivated to work for it, could be an option in a year or two.

As a married man, is it objectively better always to go for the job that would provide the best material benefits for my family, even if it means 80 hour weeks with lots of travel, instead of 30 hour weeks in a friendly campus environment. (The 'its not worth it if you die of a heart attack' argument is a red herring, btw, as big consultancy firms take good care of their assets, with good healthcare, on-site gyms, and I would take out a multi-million dollar insurance policy just to be safe.)
  #11  
Old Oct 3, '11, 6:19 pm
DL82 DL82 is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstorm View Post
I assume you are thinking about being a tenure-track college professor - is that correct? Or are you talking about a non-tenure track position? Are you sure that would translate to a 30-hour work week only? What would be your teaching/service/research load like? Sounds to me like you are idealizing the life of a college professor. I would not recommend anybody to get a teaching job thinking it would translate to an easy, relaxed life.
The British university system is slightly different, but it is full-time permanent, I.e. tenure track by US standards, but at a small teaching-focused college, which has a workload requirement of 1500hrs/yr I.e. 30hrs/wk. I know I will do a lot more work than that, but I get to teach and learn about things I care about and make a difference to young people as they embark on a meaningful career in teaching.

On the other hand, I prefer to leave questions of meaning to those who deal with ultimate meaning, I.e. those in the religious and priestly vocations. As a married lay person, the worldly goods I can contribute are values that are easier to quantify, I.e. monetary values, which are the most accurate measure of what society collectively values. I ought to have the selflessness to put aside what I enjoy to do the best I can in the objectively best career I can pursue. My wife and future children deserve as much, so does the Church and any charities that stand to gain by my work.
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  #12  
Old Oct 3, '11, 6:34 pm
DL82 DL82 is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reepicheep View Post
Will the high-paying job leave you time to be with your wife?
Will you be able to spend as much time as you want with your children?
Which do you think your wife and children will want -- more money or more time with you?
Which do you think you will want -- more money or more time with them?
I advise you to base your decision on your answers to these questions.
What my wife would want - she will say time with me, but I know that growing up where money was tight, deep down the money would mean a lot.

What would I want - again I would say time with her, but deep down I know i'll always feel I'm not giving her what she deserves until it hurts.

More importantly, what would be good for her and our children - for them to have the best security, to know what sacrifice means and the married vocation means, to have access to the best education, better than I could give, I've never been great around kids anyway.
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  #13  
Old Oct 4, '11, 6:50 am
DL82 DL82 is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

I'd dearly love to be able to take the easier job, the one I've already been offered, the comfortable lecturer's job, but I can't see any reasons to justify it.

Can anyone give me a legitimate reason, not a Socialist reason or a touchy-feely reason, but an actual, objective good that would come of it that would be legitimately compatible with the married vocation?
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  #14  
Old Oct 4, '11, 8:47 am
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purplesunshine purplesunshine is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DL82 View Post
I'd dearly love to be able to take the easier job, the one I've already been offered, the comfortable lecturer's job, but I can't see any reasons to justify it.

Can anyone give me a legitimate reason, not a Socialist reason or a touchy-feely reason, but an actual, objective good that would come of it that would be legitimately compatible with the married vocation?
Not touchy feely?

Not socalist?

Working 6 days a week is tiring. You love your wife but when children come you will love them until you feel as if you have no breath. Right now you can speak rationally to your adult wife. She can stay up. Have you every tried that with a tired 2yo who is screaming "Daddy DADDY don't go I love you, I'll be a good boy?" This IS an emotional issue. If we were robots then we wouldn't have this sort of problem.

The other thing is that working at a university allows for you or your wife to take free courses. Your wife could work as a TA or note-taker (even at my small CC note-takers for disabled students earn $10-15 an hour) other similar job to earn money...it's a great in. And especally the first year you WILL work more like 60+ hours to prepare lessons grade and figure things out, but it will get better and you can do it with your wife nearby.

The other thing is that universities often have perks. They know where the cheapest housing is, they interact with the community. You are very tied in.

The sort of on-call councellor you are thinking of is a very socially isolating position. You can NEVER talk about work with your wife. Your wife cannot meet the people who you spend large amounts of time with. Not a great idea.
  #15  
Old Oct 4, '11, 8:57 am
DL82 DL82 is offline
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Default Re: Comfortable career in Catholic college or demanding career in consulting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplesunshine View Post
Not touchy feely?

Not socalist?

Working 6 days a week is tiring. You love your wife but when children come you will love them until you feel as if you have no breath. Right now you can speak rationally to your adult wife. She can stay up. Have you every tried that with a tired 2yo who is screaming "Daddy DADDY don't go I love you, I'll be a good boy?" This IS an emotional issue. If we were robots then we wouldn't have this sort of problem.

The other thing is that working at a university allows for you or your wife to take free courses. Your wife could work as a TA or note-taker (even at my small CC note-takers for disabled students earn $10-15 an hour) other similar job to earn money...it's a ogreat in. And especally the first year you WILL work more like 60+ hours to prepare lessons grade and figure things out, but it will get better and you can do it with your wife nearby.

The other thing is that universities often have perks. They know where the cheapest housing is, they interact with the community. You are very tied in.

The sort of on-call councellor you are thinking of is a very socially isolating position. You can NEVER talk about work with your wife. Your wife cannot meet the people who you spend large amounts of time with. Not a great idea.
Just to say, I'm not contemplating being a counsellor but a consultant, I.e. someone who gets sent in to help turn around a failing business or solve a strategic problem. It's not emotionally demanding so much as intellectually so. It is also intellectually taxing to keep the macro-economic picture in mind so as to know that you are serving the greater good even as you advise a company on how to lay off thousands of staff or complete a hostile takeover and strip a competitor's assets.

I think children, as they grow, understand when a father is leaving to provide, as opposed to abandoning them. I also want my children to learn while they are young that the substance of marriage is the cross. That we do not work to be happy, but to provide the best for others, family first, then the Church, that if they want to seek fulfillment in any way other than such sacrificial productivity they ought to do so in the religious or unmarried state.

The reputation of the university at which I have a job offer is such that I would never advise my wife or children to take courses there, even if they could do it for free.
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