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  #106  
Old Nov 10, '11, 4:22 pm
blackirish blackirish is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

I've been attending a Celebrate Recovery group for a little over a year now and it has been a real blessing. I have been battling a sexual addiction for over 30 years and have finally found something that helps. I thank God for Celebrate Recovery and my accountability group.

Good Luck and God bless.
  #107  
Old Nov 10, '11, 5:16 pm
Faith1960 Faith1960 is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMShermanEsq View Post
Based on my knowledge, training, and experience, less than 40% of the people who attend Celebrate Recovery are recovering from drug or alcohol addiction. The other 60% are there to find healing for issues such as OCD, anger, anxiety, and so on.

Actually, AA's success rate is controversial.
__________________


"I can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:13
  #108  
Old Nov 10, '11, 6:37 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackirish View Post
I've been attending a Celebrate Recovery group for a little over a year now and it has been a real blessing. I have been battling a sexual addiction for over 30 years and have finally found something that helps. I thank God for Celebrate Recovery and my accountability group.

Good Luck and God bless.
Praise God for that. Paul would say you are battling concupiscence but whatever. Groups are filled with testimonials. Testimonials are proof of testimonials. For every problem that exists there is a testimonial something that it worked for them. This is fine. The problem is how do we decide what the problem is, apply a solution, and then perform a statistic analysis as to the effectiveness in large groups. I thank God you are no longer suffering from whatever it is you have a problem with. Sexual addiction as you know covers in the jargon many things. My experience with this group includes Bestiality, Love and Sex Addiction, Incest, Pornography, Masturbation, and the numerous other paraphelias, a list too long to type....Whatever you struggle with I am grateful you found something for you.
  #109  
Old Nov 10, '11, 6:59 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith1960 View Post
Actually, AA's success rate is controversial.
So true. It is difficult to find CR success rates because it their stated purpose...The ultimate goal of the CR program, beyond recovery, is discipleship., in other words to turn someone into a Protestant. This is no different than AA, giving up the so called "addiction" for addiction to AA.

Accroding to AA,

Quote:
“After just one month in the Fellowship, 81% of the new members have already dropped out. After three months, 90% have left, and 95% have discontinued attendance inside one year.” (Kolenda, 2003, Golden Text Publishing Company).
Other data shows that there is a rate of spontaneous recovery if you believe in recovery and that the success rate for AA is as follows:


Quote:
Even the most ardent true believers who will be honest about it recognize that A.A. and N.A. have at least 90% failure rates. And the real numbers are more like 95% or 98% or 100% failure rates. It depends on who is doing the counting, how they are counting, and what they are counting or measuring.

A 5% success rate is nothing more than the rate of spontaneous remission in alcoholics and drug addicts.
A Harvard study notes that the rates of spontaneous remission and the success of AA are about the same

Quote:
Alcoholism is in the middle. The Harvard Medical School reported that in the long run, the rate of spontaneous remission in alcoholics is slightly over 50 percent. That means that the annual rate of spontaneous remission is around 5 percent.

Thus, an alcoholism treatment program that seems to have a 5% success rate probably really has a zero percent success rate
The following website provides the following informatioin.

http://www.addictioninfo.org/article...ess/Page1.html

Quote:
Using the figure of five years' sobriety as the criterion of success, one arrives at an AA success rate of approximately 2.6% to 3.5% (in comparison with the total number of "alcoholics" in the U.S. and Canada). And the success rate is lower than that if one defines "success" as AA does-as lifelong abstinence
.

The take home message is that CR inculcates members in Protestant thought and since the remission rate is the same as compared to doing nothing then when remission occurs credit is given to the program for those that stay....and we get a testimonial.

CR sole purpose is to inculcate protestant thought with the intent to perform discipleship at the weakest moments in a persons life.
  #110  
Old Nov 10, '11, 7:34 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackirish View Post
I've been attending a Celebrate Recovery group for a little over a year now and it has been a real blessing. I have been battling a sexual addiction for over 30 years and have finally found something that helps. I thank God for Celebrate Recovery and my accountability group.
Good Luck and God bless.
Recall from my Post 101 as AA parallels Methodism...

8) Accountability with a group leader, “the conversational plan” The group leader opens the meeting and announces the topic of conversation. Then the group leader gives his or her own experience concerning it, and the asks volunteers to do the same, all the while making all they say come out in the form of natural conversation. There was no discussing anything but experience.

9) Accountability with a group leader, “free talk” This method arose from disliking the old method of a brief testimony from each person and a reply from the leader (intended to avoid rambling and unprofitable conversation). Instead, crosstalk was encouraged. The leader gives out a scripture promise at the close of a meeting for the succeeding one. There was something of a system of texts, beginning with the Christian life, and then expressing different stages of advancement.

10) Accountability with a group leader (Probationers Class)Some societies had a 3 month probationary period. These societies allowed first two visits to a Methodist class society to check it out, one every other week, to protect the sensitivities of the current members. Evidently the probationary period was sometimes served as a part of a Class Society meeting and sometimes the probationary period was served as a separate meeting from the class. These were ministered to as those with convincing or convicting grace. The Method for this class is unknown, but it probably followed closely one of the 3 “older methods” of the class society. It is being listed as a separate method because the class was offered to those who were on a probationary status, and after satisfactory completion they would move onto a regular Class Society.

11) Group Accountability (Band Society)Where the Class Society was focused to be an entry point to Methodism, the Band Society was for those who experienced justifying grace, sought sanctification and wanted to maximize James 5:16: “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

This was a small group without an appointed group leader, crosstalk throughout, divided by sex, age, and marital status, usually 4-6 members. The meetings were closed. They observed the “General Rules”, and the “Directions Given to the Band Societies”.

12) Group Accountability (Select Society)
No specific method of holiness. No group leader. Members “selected” by John Wesley or another official with senior ranking in the Methodist Societies. Usually a group of 4-6, they observed the “General Rules” and the “Directions Given to the Select Society” and practiced accountability for sanctification and for their gifts of the spirit.

13) Accountability with a Group Leader (Penitent Society)This group was comprised of persons who were backsliders from either the class or the band societies. The accountability method is unknown. Meetings were usually conducted on Saturday evening to separate them from the Class and Band Society meetings usually held on Thursday evening. John Wesley presided over many of these meetings with the “no one left behind” approach for those who wanted to repent and come back. They practiced accountability for their convicting grace

CR/Methodism in action......
  #111  
Old Nov 10, '11, 10:05 pm
JMShermanEsq JMShermanEsq is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
In my opinion [Celebrate Recovery] is taking people at their weakest moments and recruiting them into Protestant thought.
As a follower of Jesus Christ, it is my obligation (and yours) to meet people in their weakest moments and introduce them to Jesus Christ who told us "Come to me, all of you who are tired and have heavy loads, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28 (NCV). We introduce people to Jesus Christ at Celerate Recovery. I assure you we have no interest in recruiting people to Protestant thought because Protestant thought (or Catholic thought) without Christ will not benefit their recovery or their soul.

Blessings!
  #112  
Old Nov 10, '11, 10:13 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMShermanEsq View Post
As a follower of Jesus Christ, it is my obligation (and yours) to meet people in their weakest moments and introduce them to Jesus Christ who told us "Come to me, all of you who are tired and have heavy loads, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28 (NCV). We introduce people to Jesus Christ at Celerate Recovery. I assure you we have no interest in recruiting people to Protestant thought because Protestant thought (or Catholic thought) without Christ will not benefit their recovery or their soul.

Blessings!
As a follower of Christ I am obligated to introduce people to the truth, for without it Christ will not benefit their salvation or their soul.

Repent, as you recall, is to "change your mind"...I am concerned that the changing of the mind with abberrant thought may not aid much, in the long run, in my opinion.

I am the way the truth and the light, to be free, truly free of all infirmities....the truth will set you free.

The defense rests.
  #113  
Old Nov 10, '11, 10:21 pm
JMShermanEsq JMShermanEsq is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
If this program were run by Mormons, Jehovah Witness, Muslims with the same intent to cause these people to join I wonder what your expert opinion would be.
The only relevant question for this thread is whether I would recommend a Celebrate Recovery to someone if the program is run out of a Catholic Church. The answer is YES because Catholics worship the same Jesus Christ that I worship.

If, however, you are equating Protestants with Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and Muslims . . . shame on you. I'm sure your Church would not agree.

Blessings!
  #114  
Old Nov 10, '11, 10:34 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMShermanEsq View Post
The only relevant question for this thread is whether I would recommend a Celebrate Recovery to someone if the program is run out of a Catholic Church. The answer is YES because Catholics worship the same Jesus Christ that I worship.

If, however, you are equating Protestants with Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and Muslims . . . shame on you. I'm sure your Church would not agree.

Blessings!
I asked you what your expert opinion would be if CR was run out of Mormon, Jehovah Witness or Muslim organizations. You inferred something I did not write.

You then agreed that if CR would be run out of a Catholic Church you would recommend it. You say this because we worship the same Christ. Now I could say that we have no common worship in the Eucharist but I won't go there.

What you are saying is exactly what I was asking. You agree that since there is a common element, Christ, that the recommendation would be appropriate. If CR is to be useful then it has to be useful for all comers not just those that have Christ in common to be effective.

I am not saying that Christ is ineffective. I am saying that using this modality to address the issue is not necessarily effective. I do not believe that the Catholic Church would condone this modality as it borders on forced conversion in consideration that those that come may not be aware that conversion is the end goal and those that come are not looking to be converted and are looking for something else.

It is like this. In marriage you expect that your spouse is something and later you discover that they are not and you were decieved. For instance. You marry and later discover that your spouse failed to disclose to you something that made the marriage unreconcilable. I will say for instance crossdressing. If the spouse had known that the other was a crossdresser the marriage would never have taken place. This is the same for inviting someone in for something with the intenition of doing something else knowing that the person seeks something without wanting what it is being offered. This appears to me to be the same clandestine modus operandi of AA.

During the course of AA meetings it is read over and over again...as you hear of the stories of those that changed their lives...."if you want what we got...then" Sooner or later you ask "how do I get what you got"....then the process begins....

Shame on you for shaming me. I forgive you, for you did not know what you did. Your expert opinion needs some polishing.
  #115  
Old Nov 11, '11, 1:40 am
ufamtobie ufamtobie is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sufjon View Post
The Lord said to love people like me. I am your neighbor. As for the wolves, was He talking about people like me or people like Paul? He said by their works you shall know them. I never hunted down Christians or anyone else for that matter. Paul did. I never wrote denigrating things about women or homosexuals, all of whom are God's beloved children and call it God's words. Who are the wolves and who are the sheep? The sheep and the wolves are both creations of God. The one who loves the sheep as well as the wolf is the one who sees the Lord.
Sufjon,

Yes you are my neighbor, but what kind of neighbor are you, did Jesus Christ come in the Flesh or in Spirit?


Yes, perhaps you never hunted down Christians, but you are hunting down His Church that He established and calling it a "distraction", did you not say: "It is not about putting up walls. The church is inside you. Anything else is a distraction that causes divisions among people. Spending a lot of time on such things takes one away from one's Father's business.

We are the Church, if one is united to Christ, that being said He also established a Church building that we may enter and Worship Him there and this you call a distraction.




Quote:
He broke the bread and gave it to His disciples and told them to do that in memory of Him. That does not imply build a building to do it in. As I recall, he was in a regular home at the time.
sufjon, again, you are calling His Church building where we can worship Him in a distraction.....Yes, your recollection is correct it was an upper room, please don't use this for an explanation that there should not be a Church building to try to get your point across it won't work.



Quote:
Jesus prayed in the temple, prayed in the desert, prayed on the cross. All are places in God's kingdom. You don't need a church house.
Sufjon, Yes, yes, Jesus prayed in the temple, in the desert, on the cross and he is still praying for us in heaven. The point is if he prayed in a temple then we can also pray in the Church building the one He established... by the way the place you mentioned above is not the Kingdom of God but earth His footstool.



Quote:
Elections? Reports?
You said that Jesus never formed a Committee, wrong no matter what you call it ,He did form His Church he formed a committee/elections to Guide His Church.


Quote:
Again, Jesus prayed anywhere. His fathers House having many mansions more likely is referring to our hearts and souls as mansions. It certainly is not a commission to build a structure of any sort. That's a stretch, but an understandable one after listening to stretches all our lives. He gave us a place to come together, and we keep committing atrocities in it.

Sufjon, Again, above you are changing our Lords words about preparing mansions for the Elect in heaven. Who should I believe you or the Lord Jesus Christ? Should I believe you that it is "more likely is referring to our hearts and souls as mansions." Please! I believe in our Lord that he literally went to prepare a place/mansions for His people.....

SufJon, you are contradicting yourself, above you say: "Jesus gave us a place to come together." and then you say: "it certainly is not a commission to build a structure of any sort." Which is it?



Quote:
Was the cross a distraction? He also prayed on that. Does it mean we should hang people on crosses so they might pray like Jesus? He prayed everywhere,
Sufjon, now you are acting like a child But to answer your silly question, if I was giving the Grace to die on a cross, I would pray hanging on a cross as well and I believe all Christian would pray on the cross granted if they were given that Grace to die on the Cross Jesus Christ



Quote:
I It is much more difficult to see the world as God's church and to act as though you are in it at all times.

Your friend
Sufjon
Sufjon,
it is more difficult for you to attend this is why you have this false belief re: Church/buildings where one should worship.


Ufam Tobie
  #116  
Old Nov 12, '11, 2:25 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMShermanEsq View Post
The only relevant question for this thread is whether I would recommend a Celebrate Recovery to someone if the program is run out of a Catholic Church. The answer is YES because Catholics worship the same Jesus Christ that I worship.

If, however, you are equating Protestants with Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and Muslims . . . shame on you. I'm sure your Church would not agree.

Blessings!
I am not interested in the past, who went, who succeeded or who is in AA or CR. I am interested in the truth of what AA is. The Circuit courts have declared AA to be a religion.

The so called "big book" has a letter from a priest endorsing the program. The problem is we don't know what the priest is endorsing because it may just be the 12 steps. There is no impramatur. It is one priests opinion.

There is a letter from an Anglican clergy endorsing the book but so what. Anglicans have no binding authority. It is one Anglicans opinion.

There is a part called the varieties of religous experience that if you read the entire original article is Protestant through and through....

Then there is the companion that outlines defects of Character. When I read this in the Big Book and wondered what in the world is this book talking about, I found out when I read the companion...check this out...

When ready, we say something like this: "My Creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. Amen." We have then completed Step Seven.

have then completed Step Seven.
-A.A. Big Book p.76
If that degree of humility could enable us to find the grace by which such a deadly obsession could be banished, then there must be hope of the same result respecting any other problem we could possibly have.
- Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, p. 76

For the reality is, only God can take away our Sin, our deeply entrenched addictions, and our lifelong character defects. It is on this pathway, where we humbly ask God to remove all these defects of character, that the tools of recovery bring the healing, happiness, and security we have dreamed of. But once more it is only powerlessness and pain that can force us to take the seventh Step into humility.

Our Sin. These are the defects of Character. These are aided by the grace of God. Our addictions, our character defects = SIN.....

This is the point of Jesus Christ the bearer of the water of life says....Sin and Salvation is the answer. The AA program talks about addiction and recovery, where addiction is a spiritual disease....whatever that means...and recovery. If you look at recovery it is through grace, removing sin...and is that making any sense. CR on the other hand goes right for the Protestant jugular approach with the intent to convert in the process.

What in the world. The AA halls have grace, remove Sin, and provide hope. It is Christ that provides hope, provides grace and removes Sin.....I am told that Christ is not spoken of in these meetings however you can talk about light bulbs. What the heck is that?

Why are people so oblivious to what is going on in these meetings. If you are a Protestant then this is not offensive. If you part of the OHCAC then why do you need to go to AA and particularly CR to have your sins forgiven and get grace....

This is my opinion based on knowledge, training and experience.
  #117  
Old Nov 13, '11, 7:00 pm
blackirish blackirish is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

I posted earlier about the help celebrate recovery has been to me. I would like to share my testimony.

I have had problems with pornography since my teenage years. From pornography it moved to my thought life and to masturbation. This went on for 30 years. I never fought it until my marriage failed and I realized the part my sin played. Scripture and this website was helpful to me in realizing the sinfulness of masturbation. I had heard from lots of friends (church friends included) that it was normal and not a big deal. Every guy does it. The Catholic church is one of the few churches to call masturbation what it is, a sin. I needed that confirmation before I could fight it.

I have been in celebrate recovery for a year and a half and have been up to 8 months without masturbation. Thank you Lord. Slowly my thoughts have changed too. Had to cut way back on TV, internet, and just keeping my eyes where they belong. That and spending time in scripture and prayer. Also put a crucifix in my bedroom. It helps to see our Lord on the cross and remember the price he paid for my sins.

Hope my testimony helps someone else. I guess it shows it is never too late to repent.
  #118  
Old Nov 13, '11, 7:55 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackirish View Post
I posted earlier about the help celebrate recovery has been to me. I would like to share my testimony.

I have had problems with pornography since my teenage years. From pornography it moved to my thought life and to masturbation. This went on for 30 years. I never fought it until my marriage failed and I realized the part my sin played. Scripture and this website was helpful to me in realizing the sinfulness of masturbation. I had heard from lots of friends (church friends included) that it was normal and not a big deal. Every guy does it. The Catholic church is one of the few churches to call masturbation what it is, a sin. I needed that confirmation before I could fight it.
I have been in celebrate recovery for a year and a half and have been up to 8 months without masturbation. Thank you Lord. Slowly my thoughts have changed too. Had to cut way back on TV, internet, and just keeping my eyes where they belong. That and spending time in scripture and prayer. Also put a crucifix in my bedroom. It helps to see our Lord on the cross and remember the price he paid for my sins.

Hope my testimony helps someone else. I guess it shows it is never too late to repent.
Praise God for your insight and gratitude for Christ. If you have not heard of dark night of the soul, by St John of the Cross you may find this similar to what you are doing with scripture, prayer and the crucifix and your recollection. I have not visited this for awhile and one of my recollections was to see yourself at Calvary saying as you say, look what you have done, ask what have I done and what can I do....something like that.

Your thoughts bring to mind several parallel thoughts. Imagine every other than Catholic Church goer that is not taught about sins. You would think well the Catholic Church is just so preoccupied with sin what's the big deal, I will just ask for forgiveness in my closet. The confessional is powerful. I have heard that many Protestants go to confession as their first step towards understanding. No priest would kick you out of the confessional. It is like having a counselor who listens except every answer you get isn't what a counselor will give you.

I am open to share some things I have heard in confession. I paricularly like the Irish priests in a confessional. No matter what sin confessed...."son these are grave sins however you should know that that these are nothing compared to the sins against Charity that you speak of.....you must be kind and loving, your Lord gave his life, he gave you his mother".........

Now if you consider the sins you speak of and the consequences as you speak. The gravest sin is the sin against Charity is it not? It is not for me to judge however understand that for every sin there is a consequence and the consequences of lack of charity as it occured in your marriage appear to be devastating. I am sad for that. My prayers are with you and I pray you continue journeying on to glorification.

Think of where you are, think of what you have done for self correction including CR and as you know the Lord leads many in mysterious ways and rather than seeing yourself here on this site in opposition to what I say...ask...is it possible the journey continues and perhaps not where I was planning....for after all this is Catholic Answers and I am a Catholic. Then ask yourself....do I really have the answer?
  #119  
Old Feb 5, '12, 8:54 pm
JMShermanEsq JMShermanEsq is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

For an excellent article about Celebrate Recovery in a Catholic Parish in Lima, Ohio, please click on the following link and go to page 21 of the Catholic Chronicle for the Diocese of Toledo. Blessings!
  #120  
Old Feb 9, '12, 5:36 pm
jwright82 jwright82 is offline
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Default Re: Celebrate Recovery

I am a member of CR for drug use and pornography. I love being a part of it. It has helped me tremendously and I recomend it to everyone. I am proud to say that I am in CR. If they try to make you "prostatent" and that bothers you than just resist. My group never does that but we do not have any Catholics in our group.
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