agnus dei? say wha? - Page 2

Thomas A · #16 Apr 30, '07, 7:10 pm

Lily M

I appreciate your patient responses.

chsngtailodogma · #17 Apr 30, '07, 7:45 pm

Mintaka..

although i have to wonder if that same theory applied to the guy who walked under a ladder..

chsngtailodogma · #18 May 2, '07, 7:02 am

i'm sorry. i really am trying to see this as anything but superstition. it seems that way no matter what way it is explained to me. maybe because i'm merging what i'm told and what i see and what i know. which is the natural way to make a decision imo

on the other hand, i can't blame catholicism if there are superstitious catholics.

but should you blame catholicism for allowing something that is so easily misconstrued as superstition, worshipping graven images, idolatry, etc. would god want people to be accidentally superstitious or worse?

it seems to me that there alot of things that are misunderstood about catholicism, and rightfully so. would god want it to be this complicated and technical? also what i see is catholics explaining things one way, but demonstrating it differently. like they are trying to justify what they are doing by contradicting themselves when asked about it.

i'm not trying to be offensive, if i am. i don't (think) i know any of you, or the state of your relationship with god. this is just what i percieve to be true given the experiences that i have had.

thanks all

Jaypeeto3 · #19 May 2, '07, 7:10 am

Even though the popes haven't consecrated any new Agnus Dei's since 1964, they are still available from Carmelite nuns and other religious houses.

I have several Agnus Deis and have give away several to my friends.

I also have 3 whole-and-entire Agnus Dei's consecrated by Pope Pius X and Pope Pius IX.

Google AGNUS DEI SACRAMENTAL for good articles explaining this little devotional. And yes, at times, God has worked miracles in connection with their use.

Lazerlike42 · #20 May 2, '07, 7:19 am

The item is not superstition, because it is not powerful in its own right, but because God has chosen to work through it. This is the key.

We can see from several places in Scripture that God does choose to work through physical items. For instance, God used Elijah's bones to convey Grace and perform a miracle:

Quote:

And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year. And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet. (2 King 13:20-21)

He similarly used St. Paul's handkerchief:

Quote:

"And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. (Acts 19:11-12)"

The reason for this is not that the handerchiefs were magical. Apart from God, they were just pieces of cloth. However, God chose to work through these items.

The reason for this is very, very, very, very, it cannot be emphasized enough just how much so, important.

Our faith is Incarnational. The center of our faith is the Incarnation of Christ, when the Second Person of the Holy Trinity became man by taking on the flesh for all eternity. God Himself, in the Person of Jesus Christ, is united to a physical, human body for all of eternity.

We are not, as many non-Catholics (though not all) seem to think (or at least as their practice unthinkingly implies), simply spirits trapped in bodies. Our bodies are a core part to our being. We are the union of spirit and flesh. This is what makes a human being a human being.

God uses physical items to convey Grace because we are physical beings. He made us this way. He became man, in part, so that we could better relate to Him. It's a lot easier suffering for a God who you know understands because He suffered Himself, isn't it? He knows that we are physical beings and need physical things to relate to. This is why He gave us the Sacraments: physical signs that convey Grace.

Things like your Agnus Dei and the Miraculous Medal are just like Elijah's bone or Paul's handkerchief. They are physical things that God has chosen out of Love to use to convey Grace so that we, human beings, can relate to and appreciate and better live a life taking advantage of that Grace.

chsngtailodogma · #21 May 2, '07, 8:52 am

lazer, you are very good at explaining things. i'm going to think on this.

Jaypeeto4 · #22 Dec 7, '11, 4:15 am

Okay, I'm resurrecting an old thread here,
but people are greatly downplaying here, in this thread,
the very great graces and protections that God grants to those
who wear or carry duly-blessed medals, holy cards, and yes, Agnus Dei's.
The medal, the wax, the paper, have no power in and of themselves.
But the SOLEMN blessings of these objects by the Church invest these objects
with a serious degree of holiness. Those who use blessed "sacramentals"
get a partial indulgence just for wearing or carrying them (if done in faith and repentant of
one's sins). DO NOT DOWNPLAY OR RIDICULE OR DARE CALL SUPERSTITIOUS,
the FAITHFUL, CHURCH-APPROVED USE of Blessed Sacramentals.
It is not superstition. Christ has revealed to various saints some of these medals, so has Mary. The "Miraculous Medal" is properly called THE MEDAL OF THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. Through faithful wearing of it (when it's been blessed) many faithful have received seriously miraculous graces and helps from God and the Saints. Same with the Agnus Dei sacramental, which is papally-blessed wax (from the Easter candles) sealed in lockets or little cloth or leather encasements. DO NOT RIDICULE THESE THINGS, you are risking committing the sin of sacrilege by doing so.
They are material vehicles through the faithful use of which, God is often pleased to grant "extra" graces from the Holy Spirit.
Just like the story in the Old Testament. The prophet told the pagan general from Assyria who had leprosy, to jump into the Jordan River seven times, bathing each time, and after seven times of doing that, his leprosy would be healed. The general balked at first, thinking what the heck is so special about this damn Jordan River? I have rivers back home to bathe in. The prophet warned him again: if you do NOT do it, you will NOT be healed. So finally, the pagan general relented, and bathed in the Jordan River SEVEN TIMES, as God's prophet had commanded. AND GOD THEN HEALED HIS LEPROSY.
Now, the Jordan River has no magical powers. The water is just River water. But God's prophet, speaking with Divine authority, gave the man an order to do something which seemed repetitive, superstitious, and silly to the General. But when he finally obeyed and did it, God healed him. The sacramentals (blessed rosaries, saint medals, Miraculous Medals and Agnus Dei's) work on the same principle. The Lord, through the Church, has invested these normal, powerless objects with great holiness and has directly promised, in apparitions to very holy Saints, great graces and blessings to those who use them in faith. The miracles are numerous, well-documented, and undeniable.
We even have a new feast, the Feast of Divine Mercy, based upon Jesus's private
visits to Saint Faustina Kowalska, during which he revealed to her the great spiritual power and temporal blessings that he would grant to those who would pray daily THE CHAPLET OF THE DIVINE MERCY, a devotion before then unknown (although it is an extension of the Devotion to the Sacred Heart). This chaplet is to be prayed on
blessed rosary beads.
Again, friends, I know this is an old thread, but I was shocked by the remarks ridiculing
the sacramentals as superstitious. PLEASE DO NOT DO THAT. It is offensive to God,
who provides us with these "extra" means of daily blessing and help.
God love all of you,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
PRAY THE ROSARY DAILY