Santa Claus is blasphemous

kbwall · #1 Dec 21, '11, 8:25 pm

I don't even have to go into the fact that most of the imagery surrounding Santa Claus is Pagan in origin. That's nothing but a cheap shot. There's so many other reasons to hate Santa. Also, I am in no way against the blessed Saint Nicholas, he was a good guy. I'm not talking about an olden day saint who gave toys to poor children who had nothing, I'm talking about the guy in a red suit with elves and magical reindeer.

First off, it's nothing but a blatant lie. I don't care how much people try to butter it up by calling it childhood innocence. What is that supposed to mean anyway? It is nothing more than a lie, pure and simple. You're telling them something that you know good and well is not true, sounds like a lie. Just to go into the further illogical-ness of it, many parents are upset when the truth is exposed. Many tiptoe around the subject when kids are around, like it's something sacred. It's nothing but a lie people! Parents shouldn't be mad somebody told their kid the truth. Oh, and just like real lies, it requires more and more lies to keep it going. Best example: Telling kids that mall Santas are Santa's helpers when kids get smart enough to realize Santa can't be at every mall every Christmas.

Second, Santa takes away the main focus of the holiday, which is Jesus. Christmas has become a secular holiday, for the most part. And no, calling them "Christmas Trees" instead of "Holiday Trees" doesn't help. That whole "Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays" is trivial and stupid, they're nothing but words. Christmas has become secular all on its own, as it has essentially become national gift giving day, with almost no religious conotations to it at all. Santa has almost completely replaced Jesus.

And many conservatives try to blame liberals/atheists on the seculariation of Christmas. Nope, you guys did that all on your own. Let's see, you took your religious holiday, purposefully removed all the religious symbolism, and replaced it with Santa, deer, elves, etc. You then essentially demanded the holiday take center stage in American culture, knowing full well that not all of America was Christian. And now they're mad because they've essentially lost their holiday. No, you didn't lose it, you gave it away and have only yourselves to blame.

Third, it's stupid. OK, not a sin, but a valid point still. Go through the trouble of getting your child a Christmas present, and then giving credit to a guy who doesn't even exist for no apparent reason. What a bizarre custom.

Fourth, it sends kids a horrible message. I saved the worst for last, as there are two bad messages Santa sends children. The first being that it's OK to lie to people. I've already explained how Santa is a lie with my first point. The second message is its ties to religion. Let's see, let's convince our children that there's an old guy with a beard. Even though you've never seen him or met him, he will reward you if you're good. Hmm, sound famliar? There's a reason atheists call God "Santa for adults". Also, kids usually learn about God and Santa from the same source (their parents), so when one is found to be false, why should they believe anything their parents say about God? The fact that this blatant lie is also centered around one of the biggest Christian holidays doesn't help matters either.

I'm not trying to say God is as fake as Santa. What I'm saying is that teaching your kids about Santa makes them more likely to doubt God.

kmuestwin · #2 Dec 21, '11, 8:31 pm

That is your opinion!

Be careful because posts like that can get you put on the naughty list.

I don't think Santa is a bad thing. I'm not going to go to war for Santa but we had him in my house and it was fine. It gave me some great memories with my parents and I think they had as much fun with it as I did.

Merry Christmas

vsedriver · #3 Dec 21, '11, 8:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmuestwin

That is your opinion!

Be careful because posts like that can get you put on the naughty list.

I don't think Santa is a bad thing. I'm not going to go to war for Santa but we had him in my house and it was fine. It gave me some great memories with my parents and I think they had as much fun with it as I did.

Merry Christmas

same here, both boys are devout Catholics and grew up with Santa. Besides, Santa is an excellent way to teach the difference between fantasy and reality. There are no pictures of Santa in my house, no Santa statues but we have the Nativity Set. As my kids grew up they learned that Santa was a myth but Jesus was real. Santa was celebrating Jesus' birth along with us.

tafan · #4 Dec 21, '11, 8:40 pm

I choose to follow Chesterton on this issue and not ranting and ravings of am angry poster. There is a thread on the spirituality sub forum about this. No need to repeat it all again.

ChrisRedfield47 · #5 Dec 21, '11, 8:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbwall

I don't even have to go into the fact that most of the imagery surrounding Santa Claus is Pagan in origin. That's nothing but a cheap shot. There's so many other reasons to hate Santa. Also, I am in no way against the blessed Saint Nicholas, he was a good guy. I'm not talking about an olden day saint who gave toys to poor children who had nothing, I'm talking about the guy in a red suit with elves and magical reindeer.

First off, it's nothing but a blatant lie. I don't care how much people try to butter it up by calling it childhood innocence. What is that supposed to mean anyway? It is nothing more than a lie, pure and simple. You're telling them something that you know good and well is not true, sounds like a lie. Just to go into the further illogical-ness of it, many parents are upset when the truth is exposed. Many tiptoe around the subject when kids are around, like it's something sacred. It's nothing but a lie people! Parents shouldn't be mad somebody told their kid the truth. Oh, and just like real lies, it requires more and more lies to keep it going. Best example: Telling kids that mall Santas are Santa's helpers when kids get smart enough to realize Santa can't be at every mall every Christmas.

Second, Santa takes away the main focus of the holiday, which is Jesus. Christmas has become a secular holiday, for the most part. And no, calling them "Christmas Trees" instead of "Holiday Trees" doesn't help. That whole "Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays" is trivial and stupid, they're nothing but words. Christmas has become secular all on its own, as it has essentially become national gift giving day, with almost no religious conotations to it at all. Santa has almost completely replaced Jesus.

And many conservatives try to blame liberals/atheists on the seculariation of Christmas. Nope, you guys did that all on your own. Let's see, you took your religious holiday, purposefully removed all the religious symbolism, and replaced it with Santa, deer, elves, etc. You then essentially demanded the holiday take center stage in American culture, knowing full well that not all of America was Christian. And now they're mad because they've essentially lost their holiday. No, you didn't lose it, you gave it away and have only yourselves to blame.

Third, it's stupid. OK, not a sin, but a valid point still. Go through the trouble of getting your child a Christmas present, and then giving credit to a guy who doesn't even exist for no apparent reason. What a bizarre custom.

Fourth, it sends kids a horrible message. I saved the worst for last, as there are two bad messages Santa sends children. The first being that it's OK to lie to people. I've already explained how Santa is a lie with my first point. The second message is its ties to religion. Let's see, let's convince our children that there's an old guy with a beard. Even though you've never seen him or met him, he will reward you if you're good. Hmm, sound famliar? There's a reason atheists call God "Santa for adults". Also, kids usually learn about God and Santa from the same source (their parents), so when one is found to be false, why should they believe anything their parents say about God? The fact that this blatant lie is also centered around one of the biggest Christian holidays doesn't help matters either.

I'm not trying to say God is as fake as Santa. What I'm saying is that teaching your kids about Santa makes them more likely to doubt God.

I couldn't agree more with this read. I don't know why many people (including Catholics) support Santa Claus so much. Christmas should be all about the birth of he who came to save us, Jesus. And children these days know a lot more about Santa, and little or nothing about Jesus. Its quite sad really.

ChrisRedfield47 · #6 Dec 21, '11, 8:44 pm

Though, I do think that the word "blasphemous" is a bit to much.

Speedypizza · #7 Dec 21, '11, 9:06 pm

What is so funny here is that you say all of this is to somehow protect people. The sad fact is that what you have done is once again scared off any intelligent, rational person looking at becoming Catholic. It really is a good thing I fell in love with the Church before I came here, because if not, I am not sure I would be coming in. In my brief time here I have had to fight with young earth creationists, anti-pepsi people, anti-AD&D people, anti-Harry Potter nuts, people who are trying to tell me that watching South Park is a sin, and other ultra-right wing people on 10 other issues.

Please do me a favor and seek help! You are clearly not okay at some deep level. Your anger and hatred comes through loud and clear. If we could just get people this upset about the real problems in our Church, we would once again be a powerful religion the world over. If we could get people this fired up about talking to people about the faith, we would be filling RCIA classes with record amounts of converts.

Oh, and as for your theory that teaching kids about Santa will make them think God is a lie. How about if we try this on for size. My parents did not teach me about Santa because they were ultra-right wing Baptists. Only one problem with your idea... IT WAS PART OF WHAT DROVE ME AWAY FROM GOD!!! I always felt cheated by my parents. I always felt like something special was ripped from me because of that. I think it is what drove me into the occult for so many years. I WAS LOOKING FOR THE MAGIC THAT WAS NEVER IN MY OWN CHILDHOOD!!!

Pax

Catholic90 · #8 Dec 21, '11, 9:12 pm

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

OP, you sound very angry! Why?

Enjoy the Christmas season! Life is way too short to get so worked up about Santa, the spirit of love and generosity !

kbwall · #9 Dec 21, '11, 9:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedypizza

What is so funny here is that you say all of this is to somehow protect people. The sad fact is that what you have done is once again scared off any intelligent, rational person looking at becoming Catholic. It really is a good thing I fell in love with the Church before I came here, because if not, I am not sure I would be coming in. In my brief time here I have had to fight with young earth creationists, anti-pepsi people, anti-AD&D people, anti-Harry Potter nuts, people who are trying to tell me that watching South Park is a sin, and other ultra-right wing people on 10 other issues.

If people are drivin away from the church because I essentially said that lying is bad, then that is their own problem, and just one more thing wrong with society.

Quote:

Oh, and as for your theory that teaching kids about Santa will make them think God is a lie. How about if we try this on for size. My parents did not teach me about Santa because they were ultra-right wing Baptists. Only one problem with your idea... IT WAS PART OF WHAT DROVE ME AWAY FROM GOD!!! I always felt cheated by my parents. I always felt like something special was ripped from me because of that. I think it is what drove me into the occult for so many years. I WAS LOOKING FOR THE MAGIC THAT WAS NEVER IN MY OWN CHILDHOOD!!!

......

First off, that sounds like a personal problem.

Second, you don't really have any right telling to go seek help when you post that you were driven to the occult because your family never lied to about Santa. There's nothing all that special about him in the first place anyway.

dandingo · #10 Dec 21, '11, 9:18 pm

I have yet to meet one single person who doesn't believe in God because they believed in Santa Clause as a child. Not one. I, in no way, believe that my parents lied to me as a child. In fact, I don't remember the point which I realized that Santa wasn't 'real'. I also know of no one that was scarred, even the tiniest bit, because they believed in Santa and found out he wasn't 'real'. As long as we teach the true meaning of Christmas, that the Savior of the world was born and teach our children, at the point that they can understand who Santa was, it shouldn't be an issue.

I really don't understand what the obsession is with this subject. Should we scold our children for having imaginary friends and for playing imaginary games? If we did, we would not have the innovative society that we live in. I agree with the previous poster. We need to relax a bit.

**pnewton** · #11 Dec 21, '11, 9:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandingo

I have yet to meet one single person who doesn't believe in God because they believed in Santa Clause as a child.

Ditto. It is a strawman that comes out every year. Hey, I think the OP has some good ideas that he can apply to his family. For me and mine, we are still awaiting Santa's arrival down the chimney. At six, I think my son is about to catch on and this may be our last year. Blasphemy, though? Ridiculous. The good thing about being Catholic is that we have a Church that can help us to understand what sin is, and what sin isn't. Santa Claus isn't on the Church's naughty list.

kmuestwin · #12 Dec 21, '11, 9:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catholic90

OP, you sound very angry! Why?

Two words: Naughty List

Just kidding OP. I'm glad you take the true meaning of Christmas to heart. I just don't understand why the two things are mutually exclusive.

I do agree that the Easter Bunny is the Devil's nephew.

kbwall · #13 Dec 21, '11, 9:52 pm

I see a lot whining in this topic. Nobody has even addressed the fact that it is clearly a lie. Sure, you can try to get around my point about Santa leading people astray, and you might even be right. But nobody has even challenged it's a lie. Last I checked, lies were still sin, even if you're lying to children.

bmullins · #14 Dec 21, '11, 9:53 pm

I actually don't tell my kids there is a Santa Claus as he is portrayed. When they ask, if they ask, I tell them the story of St. Nicholas and how that is where the thought of Santa Claus originated. If they ask me if he is real, I tell them that St. Nicholas is still alive in Heaven and that the same spirit of giving that he portrayed in his giving is why people still talk about him on Christmas. I find it innocent, but I don't lie to them. No more than I would go out of my way to tell my child that Tom and Jerry on the television aren't a real mouse and cat, for fear they might think they are actual people and draw them away from the church.

In the end, it's up to us to make sure that Jesus Christ and Christ's Mass is the center of our Christmas celebration. That doesn't mean there is no room for frivolity and fun on the side, but that the focus of all of it should point back to Jesus. Just as St. Nicholas himself pointed back to the grace of God in his actions.

dandingo · #15 Dec 21, '11, 9:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbwall

I see a lot whining in this topic. Nobody has even addressed the fact that it is clearly a lie. Sure, you can try to get around my point about Santa leading people astray, and you might even be right. But nobody has even challenged it's a lie. Last I checked, lies were still sin, even if you're lying to children.

Do you consider the lies that priests and nuns told during WWII to save Jews from being slaughtered by the nazis sins?