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  #1  
Old Dec 31, '11, 10:50 am
deepoctave deepoctave is offline
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Default Bible as "the word of God"

Does the Bible anywhere claim to be "the word of God"? In the Bible I see the phrase "the word of God" is applied to the words of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel and as a title for Jesus Christ in Rev. 19:13 "The Word of God", but I cannot seem to find anyplace where the Bible refers to itself with this phrase. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but does the Bible itself say this? If so, where?

I also have a second question related to this. Protestants mistakenly claim the Bible as the only source of authority for teaching us all that is necessary for faith and salvation, ignoring Sacred Tradition, but aren't both Catholics and Protestants correct to refer to Sacred Scripture as "the word of God"?

I apologize if this seems to have been posted in two different places, but I when I tried to post it in the "Ask An Apologist" forum, my computer did something weird and I couldn't tell if I had successfully posted it...
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  #2  
Old Dec 31, '11, 11:30 am
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Safia Safia is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepoctave View Post
Does the Bible anywhere claim to be "the word of God"? In the Bible I see the phrase "the word of God" is applied to the words of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel and as a title for Jesus Christ in Rev. 19:13 "The Word of God", but I cannot seem to find anyplace where the Bible refers to itself with this phrase. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but does the Bible itself say this? If so, where?
Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word. If read in context, the Bible never demands itself as the sole authority on questions of faith and salvation, rather it mandates both looking to tradition and the teachings of the apostles (which became Scripture).

The Bible never says it is the inspired Word, as it was compiled centuries after the events in it took place, not to mention the actual writing thereof.

Quote:
I also have a second question related to this. Protestants mistakenly claim the Bible as the only source of authority for teaching us all that is necessary for faith and salvation, ignoring Sacred Tradition, but aren't both Catholics and Protestants correct to refer to Sacred Scripture as "the word of God"?
Yes, both Catholics and Protestants are correct in referring to Scripture as the word of God, as that is what it is, but it was the Catholic Church that declared this to be true in its compilation of Scripture's canon.

Resources:
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/sola_scriptura_qa.html
http://www.amazon.com/Not-Scripture-...tt_at_ep_dpt_3
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  #3  
Old Dec 31, '11, 11:41 am
Zenkai Zenkai is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17
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Old Dec 31, '11, 11:45 am
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Safia Safia is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

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Originally Posted by Zenkai View Post
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Paul is only speaking of the Old Testament here, but yes, in this sense a component of Scripture is referenced in the Bible. I'd read this analysis of the context for a better understanding of Paul's intentions.
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Old Dec 31, '11, 12:55 pm
deepoctave deepoctave is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

Thank you for responding.

@Zenkia: This verse does not answer either of my questions, which are quite specific.

@ Saphia: 1) So, to be extremely specific, there is no place in the Bible where the Bible is called "the word of God" in exactly those words. There are plenty of references to "the word of God" in exactly that phrase, but it never refers to the Bible, and always refers to something else! 2) I agree with you that Catholics may call the Bible "the word of God", not because the Bible says it, but because the Church has said it.

Next question: exactly where does the Church call the canonical scriptures "the word of God"? What document(s)?
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  #6  
Old Dec 31, '11, 1:03 pm
Zenkai Zenkai is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

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Originally Posted by deepoctave View Post
@Zenkia: This verse does not answer either of my questions, which are quite specific.
This was part of your question: " I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but does the Bible itself say this? If so, where?"

The verse I gave you says Scripture is inspired by God, I thought that was what you were asking for. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
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  #7  
Old Dec 31, '11, 4:14 pm
John7 John7 is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

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Originally Posted by deepoctave View Post
Does the Bible anywhere claim to be "the word of God"? In the Bible I see the phrase "the word of God" is applied to the words of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel and as a title for Jesus Christ in Rev. 19:13 "The Word of God",
The way i think about it is that the bible (a collection of verses) contains the Word(s) of God, but the Word of God (o Logos tou Theou, like the Rev. verse you quoted, also see John 1.1-2) itself is a person, ie Jesus, who is more than a collection of verses that comprise the Bible.
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  #8  
Old Dec 31, '11, 6:32 pm
deepoctave deepoctave is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

Zenkai, thank you once again. Please accept my apology for my curt reply. As I re-read my original post, you are correct; I did not ask my question quite as specifically as I intended. I have been on the receiving end of separated brethren who accuse the Catholic Church of "holding to the traditions of men" and who do not understand the truth and nature of Sacred Tradition. They often claim to interpret the Bible literally, but don't recognize that even in such an important matter as this, calling the Bible "the word of God", they are doing something extra-biblical, something that looks just like a tradition of their own. Until we can honestly recognize that everyone relies upon traditions for interpreting the Bible it is impossible to even discuss that such a thing as Sacred Tradition in the Church, guaranteed to be infallible by Jesus Christ through the preserving work of the Holy Spirit, even exists.

@John7: Nothing for me to disagree with there!
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  #9  
Old Jan 3, '12, 10:02 pm
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Safia Safia is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepoctave View Post
Thank you for responding.

@Zenkia: This verse does not answer either of my questions, which are quite specific.

@ Saphia: 1) So, to be extremely specific, there is no place in the Bible where the Bible is called "the word of God" in exactly those words. There are plenty of references to "the word of God" in exactly that phrase, but it never refers to the Bible, and always refers to something else! 2) I agree with you that Catholics may call the Bible "the word of God", not because the Bible says it, but because the Church has said it.

Next question: exactly where does the Church call the canonical scriptures "the word of God"? What document(s)?
Yes, there is no place in the Bible where the Bible is called "the word of God."

As for your next question: many places. I'd start with the Catechism, which has a wonderful list of footnotes and cross-references. An important historical reference stems from the Council of Trent, but I believe earlier than that, too.

A summary:
Quote:
In all, the Council of Trent conducted twenty-five formal sessions. Seventeen of these were actually substantive, and the others were merely ceremonial. The Council, rather than the Pope, was in charge of instituting reforms. This was because the people believed that the papacy was incapable of fixing things and was also too corrupt to do so (2). The Council "offered no sympathy to the Protestants and thus accepted the split in Christian Europe as an unfortunate fact of life" due to the fact that the Catholics and Protestants held different views regarding the Word of God (3). The Council believed that both the Bible and the traditions of the church were the Word of God, but the Protestants believed that only the Bible was the true Word of God. Also, the Council held the belief that only the traditional Catholic Bible, called the Vulgate, was right and official, and thus, they rejected all other versions. This did not go over very well with those of other denominations. They "agreed that salvation should be sought by faith and good works, not by faith alone; they also reaffirmed the seven sacraments" (3) which all worked together to lay the foundations for present day Roman Catholic thought and policies.
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  #10  
Old Jan 4, '12, 6:21 am
Ranp Ranp is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safia View Post
...looking to tradition and the teachings of the apostles (which became Scripture).
Holy Traditon also includes teachings of the Apostles. What the Apostles wrote drown themselves became Holy Scripture. What the Apostles taught that was written down by others became Holy Tradition.


Quote:
The proper source of Revelation is the word of God, which is both written and unwritten. The written is contained in [Holy] Scripture; the unwritten in Tradition. When we speak of the unwritten word of God, we do not mean that it was never written, but that it was never written by the man to whom God revealed it. It was committed to writing afterwards by his disciples, or by others who heard it form his lips.

-Monsignor George Aguis, Tradition and the Chruch, 1928, page 1.
Ran
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  #11  
Old Jan 4, '12, 11:31 am
Evan Evan is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

The bible cannot call itself the "word of God". It is a divers collection of books. Each book would have to claim "this book is a part of the 'word of God' ". They were never a single book until the printing press could make it small enough. Even the Gutenburg bible (in the 1400's) was in 2 volumes.

Where would you want the claim of 'word of God'. In revelation? The last book written. But it is a vision and any reference there would be to the Son of God, the Logos.

When the books were written, none were considered the word of God immediately upon the writing, but only later after being reviewed and accepted by the community. And finally, canonized by the bishops and pope of the Church.
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  #12  
Old Jan 4, '12, 11:33 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepoctave View Post
Does the Bible anywhere claim to be "the word of God"? In the Bible I see the phrase "the word of God" is applied to the words of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel and as a title for Jesus Christ in Rev. 19:13 "The Word of God", but I cannot seem to find anyplace where the Bible refers to itself with this phrase. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but does the Bible itself say this? If so, where?

I ...
Prologue to John's Gospel
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Old Jan 4, '12, 11:36 am
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

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Originally Posted by puzzleannie View Post
Prologue to John's Gospel
The prologue doesn't actually refer to the Bible as the Word of God, but that Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

Quote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John beareth witness of him [Jesus]
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  #14  
Old Jan 4, '12, 1:16 pm
Granpa Lemon Granpa Lemon is offline
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

The Bible is not a book.
It is MANY books cobbled together over a long period of time, written and edited and translated by many different people with varying agendas and intentions.
If you wish to call it "the word of God" or inspired by God, that is your opinion. But, remember, it was written and put together by people. Flawed, fallible, mistake-ridden people. Some of it is true, some of it is partially true and some of it is made-up.
Did Noah's ark REALLY have 2 of EVERY kind of animal?
Probably not.
As the story was told in an oral tradition over many millenia, the story changed and grew and was probably exagerrated a bit. I believe that Noah may have been a real person, but the story was worthy of P.T Barnum, in that it was over-inflated storytelling by many, many people until someone decided to write it down.
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Old Jan 4, '12, 2:28 pm
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Default Re: Bible as "the word of God"

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Originally Posted by Granpa Lemon View Post
. Some of it is true, some of it is partially true and some of it is made-up.
The bible is true, all of it. The problem is that many fundamentalist want it to be a literal story at all times. It's a book of faith, and should be read as a book of faith. We shouldn't be reading it as a history book, but as a book with a lot of good history in it. Not all of it is literal, not all of it is exact, but all of the lessons and people teach us the meaning of God's love for us and that is where the truth is.
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