How to gauge spiritual danger?

[PodunkMommy]

Originally Posted by fakename

If demons have the ability to control all matter, then in principle, how do we know when and what type of demonic influence is more dangerous or not? Are they all equally dangerous?

If so, then are all occultists or witches equally dangerous?

Is there any way to decide this question?

We are all affected different by demons depending upon our own personalities,the state of our soul, our past, and how close we are to the Lord at that particular time.

Demons are real and most secular society tries to deny that they even exist. Many health problems; both physical and mental can be attributed to them. Bad luck, try the devil. I'm not saying the devil causes everything but when people have this gut feeling maybe they should sometimes listen to it. That gut feeling can be our intuition, our guardian angels warning us of impending danger.

We can unknowningly open up doorways to the occult by inviting people into our homes that may have contact with the occult that we don't even realize. This happened to me once. If you get a bad feeling about someone or someplace it is better to err on the side of caution.

Be sure to attend weekly Mass, get to confession often, read the approved books like Father Gabriel's on the subject so you know what you are looking for and are not just worrying yourself over nothing.

The St. Michael prayer is a wonderful prayer. My children pray it every night before bed. After all, it was St. Michael who kicked the Devil and his demons out of heaven.

Blessings.

[BluesPicker]

Originally Posted by fakename

I don't waste anyone's time with sarcasm so you're safe. But I was rather merely curious.


I suppose that I would've considered it illicit cooperation with evil since after all, you are patronizing an occultist's shop, which (I suppose) could be construed as intrinsically wrong. Plus some (maybe) inculpable imprudence in going back to the store.

But that's just my opinion. Is patronizing an occult shop to buy tea intrinsically evil since all acts of patronizing do provide money, and the money is being used badly by the owner in this case? I'm a little confused.

If you find fault in this then practically every store in the USA would be off limits. I don't believe Bix did anything wrong. Every bookstore except religious ones have occult books. One miniseries on TV called "Vampire Dairies" has/had audio and video how to do spells, witchcraft. Walmart has weird stuff.

Evil is a person and God has the last say so. Most people even priests now adays do not believe in evil as an active agent and consider such believes outdated.

Gauge danger? When physically people are bitten and cut by fine claws. And of course the danger of possession.

You know how it is said that each angel is it's own species but can be placed in choirs? Well, each case of extraordinary attacks is different.

BP

[GoldenLight]

Originally Posted by BluesPicker

Evil is a person and God has the last say so. Most people even priests now adays do not believe in evil as an active agent and consider such believes outdated.
BP

While it's true that many priest seem totally uneducated and uniformed & have a complacent attitude to this very real threat, The Vatican on the other hand does not hold the same opinion!!

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en.../galateo-9239/

In a interview with the Vatican's chief excorcist, Father Gabriele Armorth.....

Question: You are locked in daily battle with the Devil . What do you see as Satan’s greatest success?

AMORTH: The fact that he has managed to convince people that he does not exist. He has almost managed it, even within the Church. We have a clergy and an Episcopate who no longer believe in the Devil , in exorcism, in the exceptional evil the Devil can instill, or even in the power that Jesus bestowed to cast out demons. For three centuries the Latin Church – in contrast to the Orthodox Church and the various Protestant professions – has almost totally abandoned the ministry of exorcism. So because they no longer perform exorcisms, or study them, and never having seen them, the clergy no longer believe in them. And they no longer believe in the Devil . We have entire Episcopates trying to counter exorcism. We have countries completely devoid of exorcists, such as Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Spain and Portugal. This is a shameful shortfall.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~`
Dec 2007

The Pope has ordered his bishops to set up exorcism squads to tackle the rise of Satanism.

Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult.
They have introduced courses for priests to combat what they call the most extreme form of "Godlessness."
Each bishop is to be told to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight demonic possession.
The initiative was revealed by 82-year-old Father Gabriele Amorth, the Vatican "exorcistinchief," to the online Catholic news service Petrus.
"Thanks be to God, we have a Pope who has decided to fight the Devil head-on," he said.
"Too many bishops are not taking this seriously and are not delegating their priests in the fight against the Devil. You have to hunt high and low for a properly trained exorcist.
"Thankfully, Benedict XVI believes in the existence and danger of evil - going back to the time he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith." The CDF is the oldest Vatican department and was headed by Benedict from 1982, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, until he became Pope in 2005.
Father Amorth said that during his time at the department Benedict had not lost the chance to warn humanity of the risk from the Devil.
He said the Pope wants to restore a prayer seen as protection against evil that was traditionally recited at the end of Catholic Masses. The prayer, to St Michael the Archangel, was dropped in the 1960s by Pope John XXIII.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1jIT7JH49

[Bix]

Originally Posted by fakename

I suppose that I would've considered it illicit cooperation with evil since after all, you are patronizing an occultist's shop, which (I suppose) could be construed as intrinsically wrong. Plus some (maybe) inculpable imprudence in going back to the store.But that's just my opinion. Is patronizing an occult shop to buy tea intrinsically evil since all acts of patronizing do provide money, and the money is being used badly by the owner in this case? I'm a little confused.

Thank you BluesPicker.

For the record, it is not an occult shop. 90% of their inventory consists of vitamins, supplements, tea, bottled water, organic skin care and cleaning products. They have a small book section- most of which I've seen are how to live and stay healthy by eating right, etc. The other items represent less than 10% and if you don't happen to have an interest in essential oils or incense(I went to buy charcoal for the priest to bless with my incense rather than drive 30-40 minutes out to the only other place I know to purchase ) you would never know they even carried these other items.


Unfortunately, if we were truly aware of the magnitude of evil and the hate of demons as well as those that embrace that hate, very few good people would probably ever leave their homes. We are always going to come across spiritual dangers while on this earth and trying to live in a way pleasing to God.

Regarding how to gauge these dangers and if some are worse than others- yes, I believe some are worse than others, however many times people or circumstances that appear benign become our biggest dangers or struggles. The devil or demons don't always wear a big sign...

There are good and bad (or evil ) people everywhere- in malls, schools, churches, bars, and so on. We have to be careful, stay footed in the truth of God, prayerful, but we must live our lives as well realizing this is the world we live in today.

If we avoided all evil people, those that practice the occult, every avenue or venue or product they have access to- society would shut down and they would win. Sorry, but they are in many places.
Blues Picker addressed much of what I was going to say.

Consider this-They are in our work places, in corporate America, our stores, and even our churches. If we believed that being in any area, at any time where these people are was inviting evil and we are to avoid that- many people would loose their jobs because they would have to quit to avoid the danger, they wouldn't have the money to then pay for the home and cars, feed the children, and so on.


If you look at it from an Internet buiness or work point of view, take CAF, this site has all types of people visiting. Some of these people are up to no good and possibly some are evil. If we were to avoid all places where anything evil could possibly be due to a possible spiritual danger ... We shouldn't even view this site. You could take it a step further and say the people working for CAF are knowingly in spiritual danger...


That's why I said we have to be practical and keep some of amount of "sanity" while going throughout our day. If not, then the only answer would be to move to a monastery.

We do the best we can. We pray, practice our faith and remain aware. (if someone truly had the gift of discernment and spoke to you about it -you would probably never leave your home for fear. That would make the devil happy.)

We try and avoid the places and people we know to be bad when reasonably we have no other realistic choice and put our faith in God. .

[fakename]

Originally Posted by user "Bix"

We try and avoid the places and people we know to be bad when reasonably we have no other realistic choice and put our faith in God. .

Very well, ( I wasn't judging you by the way, just giving my opinion).

But I'm asking, how do we calculate when to cooperate with evil in the case of the occult?

If it was me I would've thought that what you did was intrinsically evil since the money was clearly going to that 10% of products. I would've been like

And what is a proportionate reason for cooperating with the occult?

[BluesPicker]

Originally Posted by fakename

Very well, ( I wasn't judging you by the way, just giving my opinion).

But I'm asking, how do we calculate when to cooperate with evil in the case of the occult?

If it was me I would've thought that what you did was intrinsically evil since the money was clearly going to that 10% of products. I would've been like

And what is a proportionate reason for cooperating with the occult?

Good Question. First is to identify the enemy's works. St. Paul says to reject any Gospel different than they (the Apostles & Disciples of Jesus Christ) preach.

In all good faith, I don't believe that people can identify Luciferean ideals and beliefs. This requires a lot of study, prayer, penance, and devotion to Jesus Christ. It is a Gift of the Holy Spirit when we can identify the enemy and his works.

We have a list of companies that support abortion and other anti-Christian practices. They do so by tax donations to abortion mills and that ilk. So it is important that we begin to do business with Christians even if it is not cost effective. We need to reorganize our communities.

Besides being active in deliverance, we had been working on a way to use the Internet to organize Christian communities on the Net. The idea is simple; Christians doing business with Christians. Our Baptismal vows I believe are general enough to define Christians in other denominations.

Now I can tell you that we have met with Christian leaders and they never gave any support to this notion.

It has to begin with the Family, the Christian Family. Then Families make communities and it will grow, if this is God's Plan or in the Provincial Plan of Salvation for Man (People male & female).

Christians need to exert political Force. To do that we need to have an economy based on Christian ideals of morality and ethics.

Fakename, you made a good point. I believe all of us would rather do business with moral and ethical Christians and not contribute a dime to the enemy.

We actually have been working on a program to establish a servers and forums for the Christian Net; but, we have a real fight. The idea is to establish communities in cyberspace that are much like the earliest Christian communities from the beginnings of the Church. The Church is essential to this.

Pope Leo XIII's "Prayer to St. Michael" describe the world as:

O' Most Glorious Prince of the Heavenly Armies, St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in the battle and in our wrestling against principalities and powers against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places (Ephes 6:12). Come to the aid of men, whom GOD created incorruptible, and to the Image of His own Likeness He made him (Wis 2:23); and from the tyranny of the devil He bought him at a great price (Cor 7:23).

When Satan was cast down to earth he occupied the world much like a demoniacally infested house. When Christ came He lifted the ban, He freed those who follow him.

I can't see a way not to do business with evil and not support it tacitly except by bringing Christian ideals to the forefront in our lives.

The Bible says Christians will be persecuted and well, you know the Book of Revelations. Yet Christ left a Church and not a book. So I expect He wants us to help each other.

This was a rambling post but I believe I put forth the basic idea.

Thank God for Confession, for the Grace of Reconciliation. You can't truly repent unless God grants you this Grace. Christians are sort of amphibian like because when we leave the Waters of the Spirit to go forth into the world it is dry, barren, and with many snares and fiery darts. We are wounded daily in one way or another.

They will listen if we organize somehow. But the Holy Spirit has to be the Organizer.
I can tell you in good faith that every abortion looses a demon into this world and gives it greater power. And let tell you Satan wants people to stay in sin and support sin.

I don't know you Fakename but I like your ideas and questions. And some would say we have a Plan already working. To this I say, how can we expect God to bless a nation that is embracing sinful notions. Further how can we live? Well one thing is sure we can't live without Jesus Christ.

I see a lot of holes in my basic plan already. However I would like people to try to answer Fakename's question.

Well I blabbered enough.

BP

[Bix]

Originally Posted by fakename

Very well, ( I wasn't judging you by the way, just giving my opinion).

But I'm asking, how do we calculate when to cooperate with evil in the case of the occult?

If it was me I would've thought that what you did was intrinsically evil since the money was clearly going to that 10% of products. I would've been like

And what is a proportionate reason for cooperating with the occult?

I understand what you are saying. Am I proud I went ahead and bought it there- no. Did I use the excuse of being sick and under the weather- yes.

I'm not defending my actions, but .. Explaining ... There was a rather long period I was truly too ill even to drive many days. It doesn't excuse it or make it proper. Also, there aren't many places to shop for speciality or higher end supplements, organic essential oils, and so on.
Items I needed when my dog was sick- only they had in stock. I didn't have time to wait and order on the internet. So, what to do in a situation like that? Seriously, I'm open to answers.

I do not believe there is a proportionate amount to cooperate with evil, but many of the offensive items they had are in the majority of chain stores... If I said I bought it at a well known store that most every American shops in - would that have been okay? Only, they don't carry what I needed...

[Bix]

Bluespicker-
I'm confused...
You seem to be saying one thing and then another in response to the same scenario neither of which seem to be in agreement with the other. Im confused, sorry. Either that or you're stating I don't have the ability to discern the enemy, beliefs and tactics.....


Frankly, I believe most of us are able to see the overt tactics of lucifer in our stores, marketing, music and video. Unfortunately, most people either don't care or can't afford to shop elsewhere.

The store I generally purchase everything from is a local, family owned business, however you do pay more and people with large families can't necessarily do that.

Maybe instead of a cybernet community, we need to work on our own local businesses and supporting them enough so that they are better able to compete in the market.

[fakename]

You shop for essential oils?

They're not all occult are they? I own some too and I don't think that they are.

[fakename]

A priest once told me that what seems like common sense is generally not occult. But perhaps I should ask for more clarification, since occult stuff is supposed to be common sense: there's nothing that seems so uncommon sensical about manipulating energy, or harnessing power crystals -we see that scientists and technology do the same.

So do you think that this is a good way to know what is occult?

[DihydrogenOxide]

Originally Posted by fakename

A priest once told me that what seems like common sense is generally not occult. But perhaps I should ask for more clarification, since occult stuff is supposed to be common sense: there's nothing that seems so uncommon sensical about manipulating energy, or harnessing power crystals -we see that scientists and technology do the same.

So do you think that this is a good way to know what is occult?

A great book suggestion for you to read:

[BluesPicker]

Originally Posted by Bix

Bluespicker-
I'm confused...
You seem to be saying one thing and then another in response to the same scenario neither of which seem to be in agreement with the other. Im confused, sorry. Either that or you're stating I don't have the ability to discern the enemy, beliefs and tactics.....


Frankly, I believe most of us are able to see the overt tactics of lucifer in our stores, marketing, music and video. Unfortunately, most people either don't care or can't afford to shop elsewhere.

The store I generally purchase everything from is a local, family owned business, however you do pay more and people with large families can't necessarily do that.

Maybe instead of a cybernet community, we need to work on our own local businesses and supporting them enough so that they are better able to compete in the market.

Bix,,

I was not addressing you or your concerns. I was merely pointing out that Christians should support Christian businesses in their community. I was not writing about you except in the most general sense. I have to include myself because I purchase stuff at Walmart and at bookstores. You find New Age stuff everywhere.

As far as essential oils go, I don't believe that is occult.

Sorry Bix,
BP

[BluesPicker]

Originally Posted by fakename

A priest once told me that what seems like common sense is generally not occult. But perhaps I should ask for more clarification, since occult stuff is supposed to be common sense: there's nothing that seems so uncommon sensical about manipulating energy, or harnessing power crystals -we see that scientists and technology do the same.

So do you think that this is a good way to know what is occult?

I think that Vatican document on the New Age would be a good start.

BP

[BluesPicker]

A part of an interview with the late Fr.John Hardon, SJ that comes from this website:

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/a...w-with-a-saint


As you well know, dissident movements are getting bolder and bolder. In addition to reforming the media, so that the public has a truer knowledge of the Church, what is the best thing that Catholics can do to combat heresy and dissidence?

The Catholic method has three parts. Everything in imitation of the Holy Trinity! And this is what I’ve been told by the Holy See for twenty-eight years. Part one: find the believing Catholics. Part two: train them. Part three: organize them. There are all kinds of training, but this is my own sacred responsibility. After finding the believers, I have trained them, again in three parts. They are the Marian Catechists, who have been required first to make the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius for thirty days. That discipline prepares them to consult God in making decisions, to learn the Catechism, and to teach it. Then they are trained in doctrine by taking a home study course based on the Catechism. Years ago, the Marian Catechesis was based on the forthcoming Catechism, before it was published, because I was on the commission and I knew what was going to be in it. The third part of the catechists’ training is a certain structured life, including prayer and worship. Most people do not live an organized life. The only structure in their lives is what they have to do to show up on time for work. Or, if they have a family, they might say what the family duties require. Finally, the organization of these catechists must involve the Church hierarchy; which means that they should be organized under the authority of their bishops united with the Vicar of Christ, the Bishop of Rome.



A rough calculation indicates that your own personal prayer regimen takes three hours a day. To most people that would seem insurmountable. What do you recommend for the beginner?



The latest statistics show that the average American watches twenty-eight hours of television a week—four hours a day. What I recommend for the beginner is based, in part, on what I require of the Marian Catechists. Daily Mass and Holy Communion, daily rosary, daily spiritual reading, and daily examination of conscience. The daily examination has, of course, three parts. First, thanksgiving for everything which has happened throughout the day, including pain, because some of the most choice blessings that we receive from God are painful. Second, examination of conscience for failure in doing his will, and telling him, “Lord, I’m sorry for my laziness, or my pride, or for controlling not my sinful thoughts.” Thirdly, and this is the most important part, is anticipation of the next day; ask the Lord what to do next, and how to do it. Don’t ask him if he wants you to do something, of course he does, ask him what. Our natural tendency is to do that which is pleasant first, that which is useful second, and that which is necessary last. Remember that in Latin, agenda means “things that must be done.” And so we should ask for the light to do what he wants us to do, and do it generously.

Now this is where Mother Teresa’s sisters come in. Fourteen years ago Pope John Paul II called Mother Teresa to the Vatican and said what she was shocked to hear. He said “Mother,” (he called her Mother), “I want your nuns to become catechists.” She said that her sisters were not trained for that. The pope said “I knew you’d say that. I’m telling you to train them.” Then Mother asked, “Where do we start?” And the pope answered, “I told Cardinal Ratzinger to expect you after our meeting here.” She met with the cardinal, and I got a call. Cardinal Ratzinger said, “We’ve got a job for you.” And so the Marian Catechists were commissioned to train Mother Teresa’s nuns, which are now 4000 Missionaries of Charity. Today there are 265 Marian Catechists in this country, and more in 100 countries throughout the world. We could not have done it unless the Marian Catechists lived the structured life.