Sexually immoral health material at a Catholic university

StMartinTours · #1 Jan 30, '12, 8:04 am

I work in an office that rents space in a Catholic university (perhaps "nominally Catholic" would be a more precise description). Today I had occasion to visit the clinic normally frequented by the students, which is right across the hallway from my office. In the waiting room there was a shelf full of informational literature about various health issues, including sexual abuse. There was also an info sheet entitled "Health Matters: Intercourse and Outercourse" that contained an explicit endorsement of such things as masturbation and oral and anal sex.

This material obviously doesn't belong in the student clinic of a Catholic school. My question is, should I do something to speak out about this, and if so how should I do it?

**1ke** · #2 Jan 30, '12, 8:35 am

Yes. You definitely should speak out.

Write the president of the school, the head of the religious order (if it is a religious order school), AND the bishop of your diocese.

Leon Bloy · #3 Jan 30, '12, 9:49 am

Yes, say something about it. You might go up the channel of authority - starting with whoever directs the center - and then go all the way up. I wouldn't bother the bishop just yet.

Just say, this material is contrary to authentic Catholic teaching on this matter, and is harmful to the faith and morals of Catholic students, and this is a Catholic university....

Leon Bloy · #4 Jan 30, '12, 9:50 am

It is best to assume the good will of people at first. Maybe it was a mistake or something. Always act like you assume it was a mistake, so the person who made the decision to put it there can "save face." That makes the correction of it smoother.

Debora123 · #5 Jan 30, '12, 11:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by StMartinTours

I work in an office that rents space in a Catholic university (perhaps "nominally Catholic" would be a more precise description). Today I had occasion to visit the clinic normally frequented by the students, which is right across the hallway from my office. In the waiting room there was a shelf full of informational literature about various health issues, including sexual abuse. There was also an info sheet entitled "Health Matters: Intercourse and Outercourse" that contained an explicit endorsement of such things as masturbation and oral and anal sex.

This material obviously doesn't belong in the student clinic of a Catholic school. My question is, should I do something to speak out about this, and if so how should I do it?

Just a note before you go reporting this material:

Mutual masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex are NOT against Catholic teaching when performed as foreplay to marital intercourse.

Nate13 · #6 Jan 30, '12, 11:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debora123

Just a note before you go reporting this material:

Mutual masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex are NOT against Catholic teaching when performed as foreplay to marital intercourse.

We need different words for these things lol. As foreplay they should be called oral stimulation, manual stimulation, and anal stimulation or something to that effect. When someone says "sex" it implies they are referring to the completed act. That said it is highly likely the material is referring to what most people think of when they think of oral sex.

Jim Dandy · #7 Jan 30, '12, 12:50 pm

Suggestion: Take several "information sheets" for evidence, to attach to your letters of concern to those in positions of authority. Were it me, I would remove the offending papers entirely. I would not wait -- I would notify the bishop immediately. The administration has to know this stuff is there. This is a serious situation which cannot wait. Souls are in danger.

Send the "information sheet" also to the Cardinal Newman Society. They monitor Catholic colleges and universities for orthodoxy and publish a list of real Catholic institutions for parents who don't want to pay for their offspring's education at one that is Catholic-in-name-only. They also monitor these institutions for other violations of Catholic teaching and morality. Recently they referred a Jesuit university to the Bishop of Scranton, PA for inviting a pro-abortion speaker to their campus and have refused to rescind the invitation in defiance of the Bishop's request.

http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/

Jim Dandy · #8 Jan 30, '12, 12:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debora123

Just a note before you go reporting this material:

Mutual masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex are NOT against Catholic teaching when performed as foreplay to marital intercourse.

Assuming the couple is married. Students usually aren't.

Debora123 · #9 Jan 30, '12, 12:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Dandy

Assuming the couple is married. Students usually aren't.

I was only stressing the fact that such things mentioned are not intrinsically evil, in case someone who doesn't know any better comes across this thread and thinks we're all nuts. In the right time and place, there is nothing wrong with those acts.

And besides, if you read my comment thoroughly you will see that I specifically said "as foreplay to marital intercourse."

Art321 · #10 Jan 30, '12, 2:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debora123

Just a note before you go reporting this material:

Mutual masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex are NOT against Catholic teaching when performed as foreplay to marital intercourse.

Really???

I sure didn't know that. As far as oral sex goes, it is allowed as long as finishs with intercourse. But I have never heard of anal sex or mutual masturbation. I believe I heard here on the forums that anal sex is forbidden since it is sodomy.

But I'm guessing that if they are allowed as long as the husband finishes with intercourse and still respects the dignity of his wife while doing these acts, then ok I guess. More power to them.

Debora123 · #11 Jan 30, '12, 2:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art321

Really???

I sure didn't know that. As far as oral sex goes, it is allowed as long as finishs with intercourse. But I have never heard of anal sex or mutual masturbation. I believe I heard here on the forums that anal sex is forbidden since it is sodomy.

But I'm guessing that if they are allowed as long as the husband finishes with intercourse and still respects the dignity of his wife while doing these acts, then ok I guess. More power to them.

Yes sir!

(It is not considered "sodomy" if it doesn't finish in the anus)

domandcarols · #12 Jan 30, '12, 2:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debora123

Yes sir!

(It is not considered "sodomy" if it doesn't finish in the anus)

Um. Really?

Nate13 · #13 Jan 30, '12, 2:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by domandcarols

Um. Really?

It would depend on who you talk to because has had a lot of different meanings and inclusiveness over time. In all honesty I see very little justification for practicing such acts and in my opinion the couple that deems it necessary to perform these acts has some serious issues they need to work out if things have come to the point where they feel they need to try anal sex to spice things up. There are some health concerns that also need to be addressed as well. Just because it may be alright according to the letter of the law, does not make it the right course of action.

Debora123 · #14 Jan 30, '12, 7:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by domandcarols

Um. Really?

Yes. The Church likes to have it's own little definition of things:

Quote:

I have a copy of Fr. Heribert Jone's "Moral Theology". This was one of the most common Pre-Vatican II Moral Theology text books: http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/20...bert-jone.html

It is set up as a confessional aid for priests, so it's indexed by sin or potential sin and describes any mitigating factors and how serious the sin is.

So when someone enters the confessional and confesses something, Father can just look it up and see how serious the sin is

There is a section on sodomy. Jone distinguishes between what is called 'perfect sodomy' and 'imperfect sodomy".

"Perfect Sodomy" is when it occurs between two members of the same sex or when the act results in the waste of seminal fluid. It is always gravely sinful.

"Imperfect Sodomy" is when neither of the above conditions are true.

Jone had this to to say about "Imperfect Sodomy"

"it is neither sodomy nor a sin if intercourse is begun in the rectal manner with the intention of completing it in the natural manner" (Jone "Moral Theology" 757)

So if one went into the confession in most of the Western World ( Jone was published in 8 languages), during the 1920's-1960's and confessed anal intercourse as a form of foreplay, the priest would either learned that it wasn't a sin during seminary, or looked it up in Jone's and send you on your merry way.

This may not be your cup of tea, and trust me, it isn't mine either. But it is not against Church teaching.

domandcarols · #15 Jan 30, '12, 10:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debora123

Yes. The Church likes to have it's own little definition of things:

This may not be your cup of tea, and trust me, it isn't mine either. But it is not against Church teaching.

Isn't it disgusting to "finish" after it's been in the rectum?