Poll on Catholic Use and Beliefs Regarding Contraception

[cjmclark]

Originally Posted by silenced

Guttmacher is not Planned Parenthood: http://www.guttmacher.org/about/faq.html

No, it isn't. However, Guttmacher and Planned Parenthood enjoyed a special relationship that lasted many years. It would be politically naive to say that just because Planned Parenthood stopped publicly funding Guttmacher in 2007 that the two of them are no longer related or that they no longer share the same interest...namely, that of promoting widespread use of contraceptives.

Originally Posted by silenced

Studies, statistics, information - what is there to fear? Do you believe your religion requires you to stay uninformed?

Of course it doesn't. What it does require ius to do is defend it, such as in cases where statistics are manipulated in the media in an attempt to attack a teaching of the Church. As has been pointed out in many places on CAF, even if 98% of people did something wrong at some point, that still doesn't make it right and it doesn't invalidate the Church's teaching. Morality is not determined by democracy.

[silenced]

What percentage of the total of American Roman Catholics do you suppose has never used contraception? This little poll that runs this thread may be of some interest to some of you, but what does it tell you about the health of the Catholic Church? Not much.

I always find it interesting when I come across a group of people who feel it is their duty to tell others how they should behave, what they must choose, and what is "really important". Isn't making choices for yourselves and your own immediate families enough?

[edwest2]

This is only true to a point. At the present time, the current human population of the world are trying to live together as peacefully as possible. But we are all part of the human family. And everyone is free to do whatever they want at any time. However, we all know theists and non-theists break the law or cause harm to others that may be kept hidden by threats or because no one caught them.

The family is the basic building block of all societies. And in any country you can name, young men and young women need to have a proper understanding of being a husband and wife, of fatherhood and motherhood. Society needs not only laws but the personal, rational commitment to social order. Do people want to become firemen because they dream of dying in a burning building? Or do soldiers enlist because they dream about dying in a foreign country? The common welfare is meant for individuals, families and entire countries.

God will not force you to love Him or keep His commandments and neither will the Church. If you miss Mass on Sunday, a priest will not be pounding on your door on Monday asking where you were.

Today's problems have more to do with radical individualism that often looks out for a small number of people without considering the society as a whole or understanding other, different people in general. This includes indifference, which is part of relativism. There is no set list of what is right or wrong, just whatever works for you. This leads to anarchy and the breakdown of societies.




Peace,
Ed

[Neildown]

I believe contraception is wrong. The fact is, sex isn't just for enjoyment. If you don't want kids, don't have sex [ = simple]. If you have problems trying to stop, find some help so you can. Part of our jobs as Catholics is to exercise self-control. Obviously not everyone is in the same circumstances so I'm not judging those who do have troubles with it, but still.

[BillP]

I'm afraid the "debunking" has been debunked.

the 98% ever use of contraceptives figure comes from a CDC study (only cited by the Guttmacher Institute). The CDC study includes all 16-44 y.o. women who have ever had sexual intercourse. See here, page 5

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_029.pdf

Of course one could deduct the 4.6% of women who report usage of NFP in the study, but that probably understates the ever used number as many women who currently use NFP have used other methods at one time or another.

[BillP]

Here is a study specifically on American Catholic women (again aged 15 to 44) which shows that about 49% of Catholic women use some form of ABC (or sterilization) in any given month.

http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/fe...raception.html

[Safia]

... Saint Thomas Aquinas, of all people, ... says if a Catholic comes to believe the Church is in error in some essential, officially defined doctrine, it is a mortal sin against conscience, a sin of hypocrisy, for him to remain in the Church and call himself a Catholic, but only a venial sin against knowledge for him to leave the Church in honest but partly culpable error. (Source)

[cjmclark]

Originally Posted by BillP

I'm afraid the "debunking" has been debunked.

the 98% ever use of contraceptives figure comes from a CDC study (only cited by the Guttmacher Institute). The CDC study includes all 16-44 y.o. women who have ever had sexual intercourse. See here, page 5

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_029.pdf

Of course one could deduct the 4.6% of women who report usage of NFP in the study, but that probably understates the ever used number as many women who currently use NFP have used other methods at one time or another.

Unless I missed something somewhere, the CDC study didn't appear to differentiate based on religious preference; the 98% figure was for women in general. That said, other studies (such as the one listed below) have shown that women self-identifying as Catholic generally differ from women in general by one percentage point when it comes to contraceptive use.

Originally Posted by BillP

Here is a study specifically on American Catholic women (again aged 15 to 44) which shows that about 49% of Catholic women use some form of ABC (or sterilization) in any given month.

http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/fe...raception.html

Worth noting are the much lower figures for women self-reporting as practicing orthodox Roman Catholicism.

At any rate, the figures are again meaningless. Just because many Catholics disagree with the Church's teachings doesn't make those teachings wrong. Our faith is not a democracy.

[Deus_lo_vult]

Re: Safia

I love Peter Kreeft, thanks for posting that. I had a feeling that what I said could not be wrong, though I don't know that Allison was wrong either. I think we were making different points.

[iloveangels]

Originally Posted by silenced

Guttmacher is not Planned Parenthood: http://www.guttmacher.org/about/faq.html

Studies, statistics, information - what is there to fear? Do you believe your religion requires you to stay uninformed?

You need to be informed. Here is the page of the Guttmacher Institute.
http://www.guttmacher.org/about/history.html

They themselves say that Guttmacher was the president of Planned Parenthood during its formative stages and that he "nurtured its development." The Guttmacher Institute is an arm of Planned Parenthood and originally was housed in the same building. It was eventually separated on paper so that it could serve as a "think tank" and lobbying organization for Planned Parenthood, which it is to this day.

More: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/arc...71/jan/7101109

BTW, note what the above article says about the statistics used by Planned Parenthood and the Guttmacher Institute.

[JennaMarie77]

I honestly don't understand how natural family planning is any different from birth control methods. This is something I have looked into for years and I really don't see a difference at all. Using a barrier method of birth control like a condom or diaphragm is just as wrong as the hormonal version of birth control correct. So using a chart as your barrier between your eggs and fertilization is exactly the same thing.

[Deus_lo_vult]

Originally Posted by JennaMarie77

I honestly don't understand how natural family planning is any different from birth control methods. This is something I have looked into for years and I really don't see a difference at all. Using a barrier method of birth control like a condom or diaphragm is just as wrong as the hormonal version of birth control correct. So using a chart as your barrier between your eggs and fertilization is exactly the same thing.

Using NFP puts life in God's hands. Contraception takes it out of God's hands and puts it in yours.

Using NFP is in effect, saying "Well, Father, I leave it up to you to decide whether our marital love will bless us with a child."

Whe you use a prophylactic, you are hoping a child will not result. That's pretty contemptable.

[JennaMarie77]

Originally Posted by Deus_lo_vult

Using NFP puts life in God's hands. Contraception takes it out of God's hands and puts it in yours.

Using NFP is in effect, saying "Well, Father, I leave it up to you to decide whether our marital love will bless us with a child."

Whe you use a prophylactic, you are hoping a child will not result. That's pretty contemptable.

Picking and choosing days to be intimate to prevent conception is the same. It still is preventing conception.

[Deus_lo_vult]

Originally Posted by JennaMarie77

Picking and choosing days to be intimate to prevent conception is the same. It still is preventing conception.

1. It is NOT the same because NFP does not rule out the possibility of conception.

2. If a prophylactic does its job, it will prevent conception with every use. You don't use a prophylactic unless you are absolutely sure you do not want conception to occur.

3. Couples are taught by the Church that they are not to abuse NFP, it is only to be used occasionally.

[iloveangels]

Originally Posted by JennaMarie77

Picking and choosing days to be intimate to prevent conception is the same. It still is preventing conception.

It's not handing it over to a doctor to manage. The issue is that reproduction is not a medical activity. Not at all.

God is the author of life and he gives life along with the couple. When a child is conceived, it is his choice that it be conceived and he determines who the child should be. The married couple is supposed to have sense enough to know this.

I am a proponent of the Lamaze method. I required my doctors to keep their distance and give me only treatments that I really required at birth, which were few. Conception and birth are NOT medical events. They're quite natural. People gave birth for thousands of years before medicine ever existed as a practice. All of my children are healthy, I am healthy and I suffered less discomfort at birth than most women because I understood the process and was able to manage it myself. Panic is what causes the pain.

Did my doctor have to stand by and wait like a technician? Yes, he did, to his chagrin. Because he is precisely only a technician when it comes to birth. He was there only in the unlikely case that something might go a little wrong, which actually happens less than 5% of the time.

The big lesson here is that conception and birth are NOT medical events.

Can you look at conception & birth with medical tools? Yes. You can look at bugs with medical tools, too. That doesn't make them medical.
You can even take bugs apart with medical tools. That doesn't make them medical either.
It does, however, make it possible to fool some people into paying you for doing it. This is a consumer society after all. Never forget that. Don't be fooled.