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  #1  
Old Feb 17, '12, 7:06 pm
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abchavez abchavez is offline
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Default Is this equal the HHS mandate?

I have a friend who wrote the following statement: “Mandating COVERAGE of birtrh control is not the same as mandating birth control. Guess what? Sometimes taxes pay for things you don’t believe in! Jews are forbidden to eat non-kosher food. Some of their tax $ goes to the oversight of non-kosher meat processing facilities. This benefits the 99% of American who eat non-kosher meat! 99% of sexually active women (and 98% of Catholic women!) use birth control at some time in their life. Deal with it.”

I already told her about the bogus stat but is the fact that Jewish Tax money goes to regulating Non kosher meat places the same issue we are facing with the HHS Mandate?


She then wrote this:
"Ok so it is common sense that women who are trying to get pregnant, currently pregnant, post-partum or abstaining would not take birth control. So the stat should be 98% of Catholics who did not want to get pregnant use birth control at some point in their lives. Point is, people who want to use birth control to prevent pregnancies should be able to afford it. Affordable birth control is not an attack on religion. So instead of helping 98% of a certain population, affordable contraception would help 87% of that population. In a democracy, this is usually seen as an acceptable "


Im not sure how to respond ...any suggestions or insights that could help?
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  #2  
Old Feb 17, '12, 7:49 pm
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The Rock The Rock is offline
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Default Re: Is this equal the HHS mandate?

Prayer.
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  #3  
Old Feb 17, '12, 9:51 pm
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abchavez abchavez is offline
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Default Re: Is this equal the HHS mandate?

I asked the Holy Spirit for guidance & my sister. This is what I came up with.

But the Catholic church isn't trying to stop insurance companies from offering coverage of contraception. We are pointing out that the government, by creating a mandate such as this, forcing all institutions except the religion ones that employ and serve members of that faith, violates the rights of those religious institutions who serve & employ people who are not of that faith & want to practice their religion faithfully.


Freedom of religion, a constitutional right, guarantees that a person can practice without government interference. This is the seperation between church & state. This is the main issue we and many other faiths , not just the Catholic Church,have with this mandate.


Just because the use of these services are common place in our country & many see the use as no big deal. It is not so in the Catholic & other Christian faiths. The use and deliberate assistance in the use of these products is seen to create a very serious division between ppl & God. It is so serious that the ppl who are faithful to their faith's teachings would rather drop the insurance coverage then destroy their relationship with God.


There are religious companies who have their own insurance companies & do not rely upon the large providers. these companies would be forced to either violate the tenants of their faith or stop offering health insurance all together. And then by dropping the insurance this company would have to pay government fines for following the moral precepts of their faith. Not being able to provide health insurance is not a good option & that is one more reason why we are fighting for our religious freedoms, so tat te religious istitutions can offer health isuracewithout violating their faith.


It is not only the Catholic church that believes this mandate violates religious liberty. If you watched the congressional hearing last night you would have seen several Christian & Jewish leaders talk about how this mandate violates religious liberty. This link will send you to a letter explains this & it is endorsed by people of many faiths. http://www.becketfund.org/wp-content...eb-11-2012.pdf


Women do have the right to use BC and the right to find a job that can provide for their needs. The Church is not attempting to stop a woman from getting a job that provides that coverage. A woman has the right to accept or reject a job that does not have the benefits package they are looking for. Just as a religious institution, according to our Constitution, has a right to practice it's religious tenants.
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  #4  
Old Feb 18, '12, 9:42 am
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MomaMary8 MomaMary8 is offline
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Default Re: Is this equal the HHS mandate?

Point is, people who want to use birth control to prevent pregnancies should be able to afford it.

Abstinence is very affordable.

tell her that BC is a lifestyle choice. It is a lifestyle that they are free to choose, but should not mandate others to support their life choice. The Catholic church has never forbidden anyone or prevented anyone from obtaining their birth control. If they are interested in "affordable" birth control, picket at the pharmacies and ask for free drugs, contact the pharmaceutical companies and ask them to give away their drugs for free, she could even go to an inner city high school in many areas and ask for the free condoms they provide to students.

Saying that "birth control" is unaffordable" is a red herring. This was not an issue until Obama and his administration decided to make it one. Abortion is a loosing fight for the women's groups, so now they are using birth control.
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  #5  
Old Feb 18, '12, 2:08 pm
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domandcarols domandcarols is offline
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Default Re: Is this equal the HHS mandate?

I don't believe that 98% of Catholic women use ABC. That's a ridiculous, falsified lie.
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  #6  
Old Feb 18, '12, 7:04 pm
JoeBonifazi JoeBonifazi is offline
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Default Re: Is this equal the HHS mandate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abchavez View Post
I have a friend who wrote the following statement: “Mandating COVERAGE of birtrh control is not the same as mandating birth control. Guess what? Sometimes taxes pay for things you don’t believe in! Jews are forbidden to eat non-kosher food. Some of their tax $ goes to the oversight of non-kosher meat processing facilities. This benefits the 99% of American who eat non-kosher meat! 99% of sexually active women (and 98% of Catholic women!) use birth control at some time in their life. Deal with it.”

I already told her about the bogus stat but is the fact that Jewish Tax money goes to regulating Non kosher meat places the same issue we are facing with the HHS Mandate?
No, this is not the same at all. The HHS Mandate is not about where "tax" dollars go. This mandate would force Catholic ( and all other ) employers to directly pay for the insurance that pays for the contraceptives, including those that are abortifacients .

"About 14% of abortions in the U.S. are paid for with public funds (taxes), virtually all which are from state funds." -- From Right to Life of Michigan - Genesee County Affiliate - Winter 2012 newsettter .
So, our taxes: Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Athiest are already paying for abortions. Many of the Catholic organizations that will have to pay for the contraception and abortifacients already pay taxes. ( The Catholic Church is tax exempt, but not all Catholic Organizations are. ) This is a social evil. This mandate makes it a much more direct participation in evil.

The analogy that taxes collected from Jewish citizens are going to fund the oversite a non-kosher meat processing facility is not at all accurate to the HHS mandate. A better analogy would be if the government mandated that all organizations ( even Jewish organizations ) offer free pork ribs to their employess everyday. That is considerably different than taxes funding oversite of pork processing facilites, but IMHO it IS very much like the HHS mandate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abchavez View Post
She then wrote this:
"Ok so it is common sense that women who are trying to get pregnant, currently pregnant, post-partum or abstaining would not take birth control. So the stat should be 98% of Catholics who did not want to get pregnant use birth control at some point in their lives. Point is, people who want to use birth control to prevent pregnancies should be able to afford it. Affordable birth control is not an attack on religion. So instead of helping 98% of a certain population, affordable contraception would help 87% of that population. In a democracy, this is usually seen as an acceptable "

Im not sure how to respond ...any suggestions or insights that could help?

My respose would include the following:
1st - It is NOT about contraception. It is about the the First Amendment. It is about Religious Freedom.
2nd: The 98% 87% are smoke and mirrors. They only serve to draw ones attention away from my 1st item above. That study was performed by the Guttmacher Institute. The Guttmacher Institute was created by Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood wants nothing more than to perform more and more abortions. ALL contraceptives fail, a fact Planned Parenthood already uses to their advantage. It is also important to note that the women included in the survey were sexually active. Catholic women who follow the Churches teaching on contraception are also very likely to follow the Churches teaching on absitenance outside of marriage, therefore a large portion of Catholic women who are not using contraception were excluded from the survey. So, I don't even accept the 87% stat, the survey is flawed beyond repair.
3rd: The insurance coverage for FREE contraceptives is for ALL employess, totally free, no copay. Not just for employees with financial need, all employees. There is no free lunch, someone has to pay, and the HHS mandate makes Catholic organizations pay for that wich is morally offensive to them.
4th: For those with financial need, that DO chose contraceptives, Planned Parenthood ( and many others ) already give out free condoms.


This is my opinion, but I hope I have been logical, and I hope this helps.

Last edited by JoeBonifazi; Feb 18, '12 at 7:09 pm. Reason: typos
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  #7  
Old Feb 18, '12, 10:36 pm
PrayHarder PrayHarder is offline
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Default Re: Is this equal the HHS mandate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by domandcarols View Post
I don't believe that 98% of Catholic women use ABC. That's a ridiculous, falsified lie.
Even if that was the truth (which it is not), it doesn't make the Church's argument that the government is interfering with relgious freedom any less valid. The fact that many Catholics don't follow certain moral laws is a Church matter, not a government one.
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  #8  
Old Feb 18, '12, 10:44 pm
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abchavez abchavez is offline
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Default Re: Is this equal the HHS mandate?

Thank You all for your replies. They were very helpful. My friend didn't respond to what I told her. Another friend of hers did but was off topic and started insulting the Church so I just let it be. Hopefully it will touch someones heart that reads it.
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  #9  
Old Feb 18, '12, 11:48 pm
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domandcarols domandcarols is offline
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Default Re: Is this equal the HHS mandate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrayHarder View Post
Even if that was the truth (which it is not), it doesn't make the Church's argument that the government is interfering with relgious freedom any less valid. The fact that many Catholics don't follow certain moral laws is a Church matter, not a government one.
Too true. God bless!
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