Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Social Justice
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #16  
Old Feb 19, '12, 4:14 pm
triumphguy's Avatar
triumphguy triumphguy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2011
Posts: 8,214
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by St Francis View Post
So a woman is going to allow all sorts of equipment further inside her body for the pirpose of killling the child in her womb, equipment which can rupture her uterus, btw, and you are outraged by this?

I'm sorry, I can't figure out the logic of this At All.
Ditto: I'm no expert, but don't abortion techniques consists of inserting some kind of instrument up the birth canal and entering the womb in order to kill the baby, so I'm not sure how this is different.

Apparently looking at the baby is tantamount to rape, but killing the baby is choice.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:27 am.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Feb 19, '12, 4:41 pm
Dan McVay Dan McVay is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: February 10, 2012
Posts: 138
Religion: Undecided
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

1. Abortions can be chemical. No penetrative procedure required.

2. The legislature rejected an amendment to allow doctors to perform a non-penetrative ultrasound.

3. The ultrasound is required even if the doctor does not think it is necessary.

4. The right to abortion is a recognized right. See Roe v. Wade.

5. Birthing a child usually requires a penetrative act. Would it be okay to, force a woman to have a non-necessary penetrative ultrasound before having baby.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:28 am.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Feb 19, '12, 4:42 pm
Dan McVay Dan McVay is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: February 10, 2012
Posts: 138
Religion: Undecided
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by triumphguy View Post
Ditto: I'm no expert, but don't abortion techniques consists of inserting some kind of instrument up the birth canal and entering the womb in order to kill the baby, so I'm not sure how this is different.

Apparently looking at the baby is tantamount to rape, but killing the baby is choice.
Difference = choice

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:28 am.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Feb 19, '12, 5:25 pm
St Francis St Francis is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2004
Posts: 10,583
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McVay View Post
1. Abortions can be chemical. No penetrative procedure required.

2. The legislature rejected an amendment to allow doctors to perform a non-penetrative ultrasound.

3. The ultrasound is required even if the doctor does not think it is necessary.

4. The right to abortion is a recognized right. See Roe v. Wade.

5. Birthing a child usually requires a penetrative act. Would it be okay to, force a woman to have a non-necessary penetrative ultrasound before having baby.
Here's a copy of the bill as it currently stands. I was unable to find the part where they require a transvaginal ultrasound. Maybe you can find it.

I am still trying to figure out what the uproar is about. It would be like my complaining that the dentist is spraying something in my mouth but not bothering about the fact that he is then sticking a needle into my gums. Or maybe complainibg about someone sratching the side of my car with a key while having given permission for someone to wreck the entire car.
__________________


"The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves. The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe; they are intolerant in practice because they do not love."
-Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P




Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:28 am.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Feb 19, '12, 6:25 pm
Corki's Avatar
Corki Corki is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: November 22, 2005
Posts: 13,649
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McVay View Post
Difference = choice
The choice is still there. If she chooses to have an abortion, she chooses the procedures that go along with it - before, during and after. It is no different than any medical procedure. If you go in for elective surgery, you elect to also usually have blood work done, a chest x-ray taken, etc. It's a package deal.
__________________
“Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights -- for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture -- is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination.” Saint John Paul II

"It is not “progressive” to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life." Pope Francis

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:29 am.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Feb 19, '12, 6:28 pm
Linda Marie's Avatar
Linda Marie Linda Marie is offline
Regular Member
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: May 18, 2005
Posts: 2,330
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McVay View Post
5. Birthing a child usually requires a penetrative act. Would it be okay to, force a woman to have a non-necessary penetrative ultrasound before having baby.
There's a whole host of OB/GYN procedures that are very invasive to which you must subject yourself if you want the care. She would be given a full pelvic as part of the initial exam to determine if she is pregnant.

Abortifacients are powerful drugs, very strong artificial hormones. They can have serious side effects. To think that a doctor would give his patient abortifacient drugs without determining if she is actually pregnant...

Of course, imho, any doctor dishing out abortifacient drugs (here, have an extra large dose of a class one carcinogen) has no respect for life and thinks as little of the woman he gives them to as he does the baby.
__________________

Tiber Swim Team
Class of 1980


Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:33 am.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Feb 19, '12, 6:39 pm
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2010
Posts: 19,026
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McVay View Post
1. Abortions can be chemical. No penetrative procedure required.

2. The legislature rejected an amendment to allow doctors to perform a non-penetrative ultrasound.

3. The ultrasound is required even if the doctor does not think it is necessary.

4. The right to abortion is a recognized right. See Roe v. Wade.

5. Birthing a child usually requires a penetrative act. Would it be okay to, force a woman to have a non-necessary penetrative ultrasound before having baby.
What "penetrative act" does birthing a child require? CREATING a child does require a penetrative act, which would be sexual intimacy between a husband and wife, but giving birth to a baby does not normally involve any penetrative act. The baby comes OUT, nothing goes IN.

You are strange.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:33 am.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Feb 19, '12, 6:49 pm
katy katy is offline
Senior Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: April 5, 2005
Posts: 7,233
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Marie View Post
This is a strawman argument. An ultrasound examination is already done before an abortion, always. The abortionist doesn't go in blind.

The ultrasound is required to locate the fetus. They need to know where the baby is so it can be chopped into parts and removed or sucked out with a vacuum.

What is different is allowing the mother to see the ultrasound rather than 'protecting' her from seeing her baby before she has him/her killed since that would cause trauma. They would see that their baby is not just a blob of cells like they've been told and know that they are killing a human being.

This argument about penetration is a diversion. The abortion procedure itself is extremely invasive in this regard. The ultrasound is the least of it.
Exactly. The abortion is much more invasive than an ultrasound and can give women real information about what is to happen.
__________________
Tiber swim team class of '78


Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:34 am.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Feb 19, '12, 6:59 pm
Allegra's Avatar
Allegra Allegra is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 11, 2011
Posts: 5,880
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Personanongrata View Post
And she can choose C - leave the state and obtain an abortion without the ultrasound and all of the above chaos.
I'd like to know how a woman has an abortion without being penetrated? Do they pull the baby out her nose?

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:34 am.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Feb 19, '12, 7:06 pm
Allegra's Avatar
Allegra Allegra is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 11, 2011
Posts: 5,880
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McVay View Post
1. Abortions can be chemical. No penetrative procedure required.

2. The legislature rejected an amendment to allow doctors to perform a non-penetrative ultrasound.

3. The ultrasound is required even if the doctor does not think it is necessary.

4. The right to abortion is a recognized right. See Roe v. Wade.

5. Birthing a child usually requires a penetrative act. Would it be okay to, force a woman to have a non-necessary penetrative ultrasound before having baby.
Even chemical abortions can require a penetrative procedure. Very often the woman needs a DC, just like after a miscarriage. Also, most women have multiple preventative ultrasounds at various stages before having a baby.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:34 am.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Feb 19, '12, 7:11 pm
Mary Gail 36's Avatar
Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2005
Posts: 11,269
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

The "doctor" performing the abortion normally needs to date the pregnancy, to ascertain how large the child is and what type of procedure to use.

That is done by sonogram.

The real problem that makes opponents of the law upset is that now mothers will see their children.

My DD was 8 weeks gestation when I had my dating sono, which means she was 6 weeks after conception.

She had a head, body, eyes, arm buds visible and a rapidly beating little heart.

Is it ok to kill babies this size and development and call it a choice?
__________________
Jesus, protect and save the unborn.

The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we saw His glory, the glory that He has from the Father as only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:35 am.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Feb 19, '12, 7:12 pm
Mary Gail 36's Avatar
Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2005
Posts: 11,269
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
Even chemical abortions can require a penetrative procedure. Very often the woman needs a DC, just like after a miscarriage. Also, most women have multiple preventative ultrasounds at various stages before having a baby.
Chemical abortions need to happen before 9 weeks. In order to make sure the baby is younger than 9 weeks, they must perform a sono.
__________________
Jesus, protect and save the unborn.

The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we saw His glory, the glory that He has from the Father as only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:35 am.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Feb 19, '12, 9:45 pm
triumphguy's Avatar
triumphguy triumphguy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2011
Posts: 8,214
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McVay View Post
1. Abortions can be chemical. No penetrative procedure required. So how do they gt the chemical in there? Hypnosis? B TW, by chemical I presume you mean poison, or other death dealing substance?
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McVay View Post
Difference = choice
So if you choose to have an abortion in the states that require an ultrasound, then you are also choosing to have an untrasound as required. True?

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:36 am.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old Feb 20, '12, 1:06 am
TraderTif's Avatar
TraderTif TraderTif is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2006
Posts: 667
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

She's choosing to get an abortion, the ultrasound is part of the package. (Should we be upset that she is "forced" to have a doctor perform the abortion procedure? That she is "forced" to have the procedure done in a clinic?)

I had pelvic surgery a couple years back, and I was "forced" to get one of those ultrasounds immediately before, despite the fact that I didn't want it. It was part of the package, and I couldn't get the surgery without it. (Doctors don't like to go in there blind.)

It's an extremely common medical procedure and I think comparing it to rape is over-the-top.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:36 am.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old Feb 20, '12, 1:18 am
DeoSalvatoreMeo DeoSalvatoreMeo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2009
Posts: 210
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Is it okay to force a woman to have an ultrasound...

As has already been stated, abortionists use transvaginal ultrasounds to confirm a pregnancy and assess how far into the pregnancy the woman is. The only difference is the direction in which the monitor will be pointed.

You can read about transvaginal ultrasound from this "Provider's Guide to Medical Abortion" here:

http://www.prochoice.org/education/c...trasound.asp#3

Jill Stanek's responded to the "controversy" on her website:

"Furthermore, do abortion proponents really want to “go there” on the topic of vaginal intrusion and rape?

If anything, it is an abortion that is comparable to rape. Abortion is an act of violence, both against the baby and her mother. Abortion is painful, bloody, and involves sharp instruments, certainly much more comparable to forcible rape than an innocuous ultrasound probe"

The full response is here: http://www.jillstanek.com/2012/02/ab...ion-with-rape/

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Feb 20, '12 at 10:37 am.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Social Justice

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8257Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: GLam8833
5020CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: 77stanthony77
4346Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: FootStool
4029OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: B79
3835SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3571Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3230Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3207Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Chast Forever
3137Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3049For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Thomas Choe



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:40 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.