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  #16  
Old Jun 24, '11, 10:56 am
barb finnegan barb finnegan is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

I visited the chapel of the original monastery building in the late 1990s. I remember that it was a yellowish-colored brick on the outside, with 'old' stained-glass windows.

Then fast-forward, and I noticed that it was a modern-looking building, completely changed from what it was before.

I always liked passing through the town of Esopus-there were so many religious houses in that one stretch of highway, I dubbed it 'Monastery Row'!

Too bad about the nuns being forced to move. Is it the Redemptorists themselves who are forcing their female counterparts to do so? Or is someone 'from outside' eyeing the property for themselves?

All around, too sad. I remember there used to be a Redemptoristine monastery on a hill overlooking St. Anne de Beaupre in Quebec, Canada. I visited the chapel with my mother when my parents and sister went there in the early 1970s. Sadly, the nuns have gone-lack of vocations like everywhere else in French-speaking Canada-so now it's either vacant or being used for secular purposes. BIG SIGH....
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  #17  
Old Jun 25, '11, 8:48 pm
cara1 cara1 is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

Quote:
Originally Posted by barb finnegan View Post
I visited the chapel of the original monastery building in the late 1990s. I remember that it was a yellowish-colored brick on the outside, with 'old' stained-glass windows.

Then fast-forward, and I noticed that it was a modern-looking building, completely changed from what it was before.

I always liked passing through the town of Esopus-there were so many religious houses in that one stretch of highway, I dubbed it 'Monastery Row'!

Too bad about the nuns being forced to move. Is it the Redemptorists themselves who are forcing their female counterparts to do so? Or is someone 'from outside' eyeing the property for themselves?

All around, too sad. I remember there used to be a Redemptoristine monastery on a hill overlooking St. Anne de Beaupre in Quebec, Canada. I visited the chapel with my mother when my parents and sister went there in the early 1970s. Sadly, the nuns have gone-lack of vocations like everywhere else in French-speaking Canada-so now it's either vacant or being used for secular purposes. BIG SIGH....
My source reports that The Bruderhof are leasing it from the nuns.

In French Canada there was a huge civil lawsuit years ago against the French-speaking archdiocese was filed on behalf of thousands of orphans and others who had experienced child abuse by priests, brothers and sisters.
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  #18  
Old Jun 26, '11, 3:25 am
TiggerS TiggerS is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

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Originally Posted by Shoshana View Post

Forgive me, but you are still looking at it from a worldly view. You surrender your life to God....and if it is in the plans that you change monastery, well, you change monastery.Comfortable or not. Read up on the discacled carmelites nuns where the original foundress in Mexico was exiled from Mexico, went to Cuba, had to wear their habit than secular clothes on top of that they would not get killed, about food deprivations big time., etc etc etcI do not think those who entered the convent in Mexico had this in mind.

Anyone who follows the call from Christ will not, in my mind, look at the financial feasibility of the community they want to enter. They may enquire, pass it throught the Lord and Superiors, but when details you mention really do come to mind, I beg to differ to think whether there is truly a vocation in question or just a career....

Surrender to God's will is paramount....there is nothing else. He ordains all things. The convent that is secure last decade may not be when the postulant becomes fully professed. It is what it is....
Well said indeed. We surrender to God and whatever He may ordain knowing that whatever He ordains is for our own spiritual benefit and that of all - as mysterious, even totally defeating, as it can be to human logic and understanding.
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  #19  
Old Jun 26, '11, 11:25 am
barb finnegan barb finnegan is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

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Originally Posted by cara1 View Post
My source reports that The Bruderhof are leasing it from the nuns.

In French Canada there was a huge civil lawsuit years ago against the French-speaking archdiocese was filed on behalf of thousands of orphans and others who had experienced child abuse by priests, brothers and sisters.
Who, or what is 'The Bruderhof'?

And what does the vacating of the Redemptoristine convent at St. Anne de Beaupre have to do with a lawsuit on behalf of orphans and other victims of sexual abuse [allegedly] by priests, brothers and sisters? The Redemptoristines are a cloistered communiity-the nuns don't have any apostolate outside the monastery.
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  #20  
Old Jun 26, '11, 12:44 pm
cara1 cara1 is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

Re the Bruderhof, I suggest that you 'google' the term for more history. They are a communitarian pacifist Christian group related to the Hutterites.

My comment on the class action suite against religious communities in Quebec is simply a reflection on the long-standing feeling there against religious which might lead to a decrease in vocations. Apparently for a long time there were powerful lay Catholics in Quebec who put the running of schools and institutions exclusively in the hand of the church, where there was less supervision, may abused occurred which were not challenged. The uncovering of these abuse has apparently lead to a strong anti-Catholic feeling there.

It is true that nothing is certain, and that one must anticipate changes in the church and ones community which might force uprooting and leaving. One does not anticipate this coming from one's own community. I think that it is a great pity that some accommodation couldn't be made for the nuns' sake.
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  #21  
Old Jun 26, '11, 12:47 pm
cara1 cara1 is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

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Originally Posted by TiggerS View Post
Well said indeed. We surrender to God and whatever He may ordain knowing that whatever He ordains is for our own spiritual benefit and that of all - as mysterious, even totally defeating, as it can be to human logic and understanding.
All of this is "easy for you to say..." Nothing is certain, it is true. But we don't have to go out of our way to find uncertainty. Uncertainty will always come to us. I would not think that it would come from one's own order.
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  #22  
Old Jul 2, '11, 6:22 pm
TiggerS TiggerS is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

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Originally Posted by cara1 View Post
All of this is "easy for you to say..." Nothing is certain, it is true. But we don't have to go out of our way to find uncertainty. Uncertainty will always come to us. I would not think that it would come from one's own order.
Of course uncertainty can come along - this is a human reaction. Faith, however, tells us that in all circumstances we can trust and be confident in God regardless of our human emotions and reactions to circumstances:

Catholic Catechism:
Quote:
311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:

For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.
I am very much aware, acutely aware, that this is far easier to write than to accomplish in some circumstances; however, nothing can change the truth content of the truths of our Faith and the necessity to hold to Faith in all circumstances. Easier to write than to accomplish? - most definitely. Sometimes as heroic as it can be, we need to invest in the good that we cannot for the life of us see, but Faith tells us it is so. Will it be a struggle and perhaps a totally difficult struggle? - Yes. I know this from experience - and many, if not all, do.

Sometimes the reason for uncertainty and pain, suffering, can be triggered by the most unexpected even unlikely of all. The lives of our saints attest to this for one and I am very confident that many reading this will also have experienced similar causes.
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  #23  
Old Jul 3, '11, 2:50 am
Dale_M Dale_M is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

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Originally Posted by cara1 View Post
My source reports that The Bruderhof are leasing it from the nuns.
Yes, the Redemptorists issued a press release saying pretty much that:
http://www.mountsaintalphonsus.org/redemptorist.pdf

Although the Bruderhof name is well known, its official name is now Church Communities. Their website doesn't even mention the old name, although from the history it provides it obviously is them.
http://churchcommunities.org/index.html
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  #24  
Old Feb 18, '12, 10:17 pm
Hopemercy Hopemercy is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshana View Post
Forgive me, but you are still looking at it from a worldly view. You surrender your life to God....and if it is in the plans that you change monastery, well, you change monastery.Comfortable or not. Read up on the discacled carmelites nuns where the original foundress in Mexico was exiled from Mexico, went to Cuba, had to wear their habit than secular clothes on top of that they would not get killed, about food deprivations big time., etc etc etcI do not think those who entered the convent in Mexico had this in mind.

Anyone who follows the call from Christ will not, in my mind, look at the financial feasibility of the community they want to enter. They may enquire, pass it throught the Lord and Superiors, but when details you mention really do come to mind, I beg to differ to think whether there is truly a vocation in question or just a career....

Surrender to God's will is paramount....there is nothing else. He ordains all things. The convent that is secure last decade may not be when the postulant becomes fully professed. It is what it is....
Thank you for this. The danger phrase is "and they love it.." ie there must in religious life be detachment. They need to thank God for all of this, for all that they can learn from it. In humility and joy.
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  #25  
Old Feb 19, '12, 1:14 am
TiggerS TiggerS is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

A religious I know has been professed over 60 years now. The changes she has experienced in those 60 years have been very painful and difficult indeed - extremely so. She is still in that original religious order she entered but today it is nothing at all like it was when she entered, journeyed through postulancy, noviciate to her final vows. All the major changes came after that. She no longer lives in a beautiful huge convent and magnificent large garden with over 100 fellow sisters in habit as she did for the first 10 years of her religious life. Nowadays she is in secular clothing and lives in a house on her own - her fellow religious died not long ago.
When she entered quite young, she had no idea what lay ahead, She took it for granted that what she was experiencing in the early years would be forever until her death. God had other plans and they came as a huge shock to her. She was totally unprepared and never anticipated the changes even remotely. She is a cutie and beautiful person, calm and serene and very trusting of God and she now knows - come what may.
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  #26  
Old Feb 19, '12, 10:35 am
Hopemercy Hopemercy is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiggerS View Post
A religious I know has been professed over 60 years now. The changes she has experienced in those 60 years have been very painful and difficult indeed - extremely so. She is still in that original religious order she entered but today it is nothing at all like it was when she entered, journeyed through postulancy, noviciate to her final vows. All the major changes came after that. She no longer lives in a beautiful huge convent and magnificent large garden with over 100 fellow sisters in habit as she did for the first 10 years of her religious life. Nowadays she is in secular clothing and lives in a house on her own - her fellow religious died not long ago.
When she entered quite young, she had no idea what lay ahead, She took it for granted that what she was experiencing in the early years would be forever until her death. God had other plans and they came as a huge shock to her. She was totally unprepared and never anticipated the changes even remotely. She is a cutie and beautiful person, calm and serene and very trusting of God and she now knows - come what may.
This is the saddest thing here. Sadly this is not God's doing. Nor His plans. NB maybe the term "cutie" has a different meaning for you, but hardly the word to use for a Sister.
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  #27  
Old Feb 20, '12, 8:53 am
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

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Originally Posted by Hopemercy View Post
This is the saddest thing here. Sadly this is not God's doing. Nor His plans. NB maybe the term "cutie" has a different meaning for you, but hardly the word to use for a Sister.
While I understand what you are trying to say here I think it is highly presumptuous to state that you know for a fact what is God's doings and what His plans are.
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  #28  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:16 am
TiggerS TiggerS is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

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Originally Posted by Hopemercy View Post
This is the saddest thing here. Sadly this is not God's doing. Nor His plans. NB maybe the term "cutie" has a different meaning for you, but hardly the word to use for a Sister.
Sorry! Culture divide possibly. Sister is a gentle, sweet and loving religious - no trace of bitterness or regret. Joyful in life and circumstances.
All that is negative and not good in our world comes about through God's Permissive Will (the theological term for what God permits). All that is good and positive in our world comes about through His Direct Will.

Quote:
324 The fact that God permits physical and even moral evil is a mystery that God illuminates by his Son Jesus Christ who died and rose to vanquish evil. Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.

311..........For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself. "
Also see http://newapologia.com/what-does-god-all-powerful-mean/

- and New Advent:
http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_rumble.htm
"We must distinguish between God's positive will, and His permissive will. He positively wills all the good that happens. Suffering He permits to occur, and this only when he foresees that good can result from it. He positively wills that I should be holy. If He foresees that I will make use of good health to sin and to lose my soul, He may mercifully permit my health to be ruined, and thus lead me to Him where He would otherwise lose me. There would have been no diseases had men not sinned. God did not will sin, but having made men free, He permitted it and its consequences. This permission was a less serious thing than would have been the depriving us of our freedom. "

A general comment addressed to no one in particular: please do not misconstrue the above quotation from New Advent. If a person looses their health, it is not necessarily to avoid some negative factor if God had willed that good health be retained throughout life.

As the quotation from the Catholic Catechism states, we cannot categorically know the reasons God permits or wills whatever He may in the life of a person. We will only understand in Heaven.

Last edited by TiggerS; Feb 21, '12 at 1:28 am.
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  #29  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:23 am
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Trishie Trishie is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

This is an old thread from June 2011.
For further discussion it would be in line with Forum policy to begin a new thread
__________________
JESUS who died once for all persons
who gives Yourself wholly in Communion to billions throughout time
please pray in me for every person
as if each person is the only loved one.
JESUS please welcome each person with love, healing, and great joy!
Thank You JESUS


Mother Mary at the wedding feast of Cana (John 2:1-12)
though JESUS protested it was not yet time for miracles
you successfully interceded with Him for a family's temporal need
please now intercede with your divine Son
for each person's temporal and spiritual needs.
Thank you Mother


JESUS please grant our prayer for this person


Catechism of the Catholic Church http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
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  #30  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:22 pm
Hopemercy Hopemercy is offline
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Default Re: Redemptorist nuns forced to vacate monastery...

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Originally Posted by ByzCath View Post
While I understand what you are trying to say here I think it is highly presumptuous to state that you know for a fact what is God's doings and what His plans are.
That is a very personal attack indeed and an apology is needed from you please.
.
Amazed that someone in religious life can speak like this also, as I would have thought you knew the reasons for religious orders being in the state they are in.

Which is certainly not in any plans God could ever make.

His plan is perfection; that all religious should live as they vow. They have not done so, and so the orders are fragmented.

That is the fact of the matter that we are facing daily hee in Ireland and unless and until we accept that the plans of God have been diverted from in the worst possible way then nothing is going to improve, Speaking truth is needed and is not presumptuous! REALLY!
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