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  #46  
Old Feb 20, '12, 3:10 pm
Tenofovir Tenofovir is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvinf View Post
Nopes. The registration of most country code domains is usually restricted to registrants in the Country. I will challenge you to find a non-German provider that registers .de domains for non-German-based registrants.

BTW, did you know that .de is the second most used TLD after .com? Wow!
Really? Hmmm...

Well I counter your example with .JP domains (not co.jp but .jp) which can be registered by any1. The provider provides the presence. It seems that .SU does not need a presence either.

.FR

Quote:
Requirements

Companies, Trademarks, individuals in France
Or we can act as your agent for free
and oops .DE too

Quote:
Requirements

German Admin Contact
Or we can act as your agent for free
http://www.europeregistry.com/domains/domains-de.htm

.WS
.TO don't require either.
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  #47  
Old Feb 20, '12, 5:15 pm
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Khalid Khalid is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvinf View Post
Not all and that's the thing! I remember one dude, who was hiding from his ISP, complaining on a forum about a VPN app that breaks without any notification. A good VPN client that breaks should also break the underlining Internet connection.



That also holds true for other email providers.



In the People's Republic of America, Google also cooperates with the Feds.
Hushmail can't if you use the Java applet, nor can things like Mixmail. They are secure, or anonymous. But security-anonymity-usability are generally a triangle: one can have no more than two, and generally one must pay a price in usability to slide towards the "secure" or "anonymous" vertex of any side.

And in America, the laws are much less onerous. The government doesn't care if you're an apostate or a socialist or hate military regimes. They tend to focus more on "crime crime" instead of thought crime. Americans have an obsession with law as the ruler of rulers and due process: what have I to fear from the American government?

If America was run like many other countries, the government would throw me in Guantanamo because I was (in the past) a Muslim, and assume that my modern Catholic life, writings, apologetics, and scathing indictments of Islam are just deep cover. Or for no reason at all other than they hated my religion, or my political views, or because I don't like the government. In 90% of the world, saying what's said in any televised political debate in America would get one thrown in jail or interrogated, and being a member of the Tea Party or a similar organization would be grounds for summary execution. Even underground organizations are aboveground in America.
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  #48  
Old Feb 20, '12, 5:18 pm
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Khalid Khalid is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenofovir View Post
I've never experienced a VPN failure that I didn't know was a VPN failure. If the VPN fails the connection goes dead - your internet traffic dies. The connection is still active but no traffic passes through so it's not like your default connection returns if your VPN connection dies. I don't use a VPN at present.

I don't use a smartphone so I don't know about the android VPN apps.
A VPN on a smartphone? That's kind of laughable, like locking a screen door. Or encrypting DNS lookups on 67/68 but using bare HTTP on 80. A VPN can't fail (or fails like the internet, fails safe, which in this case means, discos) if it's set up properly, and that means through a dedicated router running hardened linux.
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Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - II Timothy 2:15

Above all things Truth beareth away the victory: ... great is Truth, mighty above all things. - III Esdras 3:12,4:41
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  #49  
Old Feb 20, '12, 5:29 pm
septimine septimine is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkwell View Post
If you need what you've been doing to be forgotten then you shouldn't have been doing it in the first place, be it a newspaper article about some terrible crime you've committed or watching certain unsavoury material findable on the web. For deleting things like Facebook and Twitter, these are important sources for employers to get to know what you're like in a relatively simple way, so it's not a good idea to simply say "What I did last year embarrasses me,delete it or I'll sue you,".
Well, it depends. What about a child who uses facebook? Should something a child does at 14 or 16 still follow him into his 40's? Is there anyplace that a person can talk online without having to worry about what his boss will think if he reads it? (actually sort of an issue in the US as some employers have begun asking for facebook usernames and passwords during job interviews) So what happens to free speech? If something I say can be viewed as anti-multicultural, and my boss doesn't like it, or something like that, I don't think I really have free speech. My ability to speak my mind is curtailed by the fact that I might not get a job in the future if I've ever said something, even in jest, that is not politically correct. Or having a picture of myself having a drink with friends (bossman may not like drinking), or joining the wrong sort of groups. So instead of Facebook and the like being a place where you talk with your buds and share your life and your opinions, it's a place where you have to act like Perfect Employee all the time.

My thinking is that at some point, it's going to reach a critical mass -- people who spoke their minds on FB and were held back at work or school for something said online. I know a lot of teens now who won't get hired if the employer sees their facebook, and there are thousands around the country in the same boat.
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  #50  
Old Feb 20, '12, 11:03 pm
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kelvinf kelvinf is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvinf View Post
Nopes. The registration of most country code domains is usually restricted to registrants in the Country. I will challenge you to find a non-German provider that registers .de domains for non-German-based registrants.

BTW, did you know that .de is the second most used TLD after .com? Wow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenofovir View Post
Really? Hmmm...

Well I counter your example with .JP domains (not co.jp but .jp) which can be registered by any1. The provider provides the presence. It seems that .SU does not need a presence either.

.FR

and oops .DE too

http://www.europeregistry.com/domains/domains-de.htm

.WS
.TO don't require either.
I meant what I said word for word. If the provider provides the presence, then you are not the registrant.

And I also said most countries because I can be a registrant of a Swiss domain although I don't live in CH.
__________________
Die Bibel ist nicht dazu da, daß wir sie kritisieren, sondern dazu, daß sie uns kritisiert. Søren Kierkegaard
Wer mit dem Katholizismus nicht einverstanden ist, der soll protestantisch oder atheistisch werden, aber nicht versuchen, ihn durch Reformen zu verunstalten. P. Feyerabend
Lord have mercy
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  #51  
Old Feb 20, '12, 11:11 pm
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kelvinf kelvinf is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalid View Post
A VPN on a smartphone? That's kind of laughable
What do you mean?

Quote:
VPN can't fail (or fails like the internet, fails safe, which in this case means, discos) if it's set up properly, and that means through a dedicated router running hardened linux.
I have said it multiple times that VPN can disconnect without affecting the underlining Internet connection. I have experienced it on my computer. Many others have experienced it with their smartphone apps.
__________________
Die Bibel ist nicht dazu da, daß wir sie kritisieren, sondern dazu, daß sie uns kritisiert. Søren Kierkegaard
Wer mit dem Katholizismus nicht einverstanden ist, der soll protestantisch oder atheistisch werden, aber nicht versuchen, ihn durch Reformen zu verunstalten. P. Feyerabend
Lord have mercy
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  #52  
Old Feb 21, '12, 12:26 am
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Khalid Khalid is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

That is exactly what I mean: a smartphone is inherently insecure and non-anonymous, and no amount of weak elliptic curve encryption or pseudo-VPNs (probably more like a souped up proxy) will change that. The issue isn't with apps: it's with proper configuration. I can't help it if some fool doesn't keep his anti-virus updated or allows every connection that his firewall prompts him for, or allows his HIPS to permit all drivers to load - or chooses a poor firewall or a HIPS that depends on ring3 hooks in the first place. It's like encrypting the voice on a tapped telephone with key that is shared over open line.

A VPN, in order to be completely reliable, must be run on dedicated hardware that sits between your computer and the rest of the internet as a buffer ("DMZ"), with one side facing out and one side facing the LAN. The easiest and cheapest way to run this is by using a router running a hardened linux install, but a full computer can be used as well (although almost all of its power and storage is going to waste). This is necessary so that you can program a set range of IP addresses (no more than the machines running concurrently), and also do MAC verification.

The second best solution is to run a virtual machine and have your non-virtual PC act as the VPN dedicated server, with a separate IP bridge as all virtual machines have; this guarantees a fail-safe, as if the VPN stops working, the virtual machine can see no internet. However, VMs are slow, slow, slow, and that introduces several security problems (hypervisor escalation) of its own, or the constant sysopping of two machines simultaneously.

The third best solution is that any VPN app should install a driver at the protocol layer (it doesn't need to do deep inspection) which cuts all connections when the VPN goes down. A Network bridge can also serve this purpose. A filter driver attached to the IP stack can also do a lot of other stuff if it's DPI enabled and not just stateful. Stateful can ensure that a non-compromised machine (as viruses that root your machine are going to hijack all but the best programmed and deeply embedded code-injected kernel-object style drivers, let alone loadable kernel modules) will always access the internet through the VPN. This can also be used to disable the normal driver with additional effort.

Anything that puts everything on one operating system will be vulnerable: that's why "security in depth" or layered security is needed, and fail-safe exception handling. Only poor programming at its worst would let a software fail at its primary function without either failing safely or failing loudly. It's like a firewall that allows connections without asking, or an encryptor that goes through thirty rounds of encryption but inevitably maps A=A,B=B... on the last round. Essentially, only really bad program fails in such a manner; one needs to use good software. One could install VPN, and, if it was backdoored (e.g. either not very trusted nor open-source and verified, along with a PGP sig to make sure the bin is clean or a self-make bin, and was either programmed with a backdoor or was compromised bin), one would end up much worse off than starting with.

The fourth best, and lowest still adequate solution is to manually program the IP addresses of the two different networks in to the PC (both windows and linux have utilities for this), and then disable the non-secure network or bridge them.
__________________
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - II Timothy 2:15

Above all things Truth beareth away the victory: ... great is Truth, mighty above all things. - III Esdras 3:12,4:41
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  #53  
Old Feb 21, '12, 7:05 am
Tenofovir Tenofovir is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvinf View Post
I meant what I said word for word. If the provider provides the presence, then you are not the registrant.

And I also said most countries because I can be a registrant of a Swiss domain although I don't live in CH.
The provider provides the physical address but it's still your name, surname and email address in the contact info for the domain (under registrant). The domain belongs to you for the period you pay it for. It's not the domain provider registering the domain in their name, they only provide the physical address and telephone number. The tel number is optional and can be a foreign number anyway. And domains such as .SU, .TO and .WS don't need a Russian, Tonga or Western Samoan address.

What is most? >50%? I'm still correct. The domain is still registered under your name and email address. The physical contact detail address is theirs but you can put in a friend's or a family member's. Since the email address is yours they can't block transfer of the domain to a different registrar.

Now there are exceptions. To register a CO.JP domain name you actually need to be a registered business in Japan. You must have property there and be an actual entity. Domain provider can't give you that, as that info is verified by the registry very strictly. They also only allow one per entity, hence amazon.co.jp and not amazoncorp.co.jp and amazonmusic.co.jp and amazonmovies.co.jp etc.
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  #54  
Old Feb 21, '12, 7:24 am
Tenofovir Tenofovir is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalid View Post
That is exactly what I mean: a smartphone is inherently insecure and non-anonymous, and no amount of weak elliptic curve encryption or pseudo-VPNs (probably more like a souped up proxy) will change that. The issue isn't with apps: it's with proper configuration. I can't help it if some fool doesn't keep his anti-virus updated or allows every connection that his firewall prompts him for, or allows his HIPS to permit all drivers to load - or chooses a poor firewall or a HIPS that depends on ring3 hooks in the first place. It's like encrypting the voice on a tapped telephone with key that is shared over open line.
You're obviously an expert in this. But as you say a safe VPN option is possible. For the purposes of most Westerners however, a simple VPN is adequate to avoid Google/ad targeting/ISP throttling/ensuring net neutrality.
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  #55  
Old Feb 21, '12, 7:57 am
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kelvinf kelvinf is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalid View Post
That is exactly what I mean: a smartphone is inherently insecure and non-anonymous, and no amount of weak elliptic curve encryption or pseudo-VPNs (probably more like a souped up proxy) will change that. The issue isn't with apps: it's with proper configuration. I can't help it if some fool doesn't keep his anti-virus updated or allows every connection that his firewall prompts him for, or allows his HIPS to permit all drivers to load - or chooses a poor firewall or a HIPS that depends on ring3 hooks in the first place. It's like encrypting the voice on a tapped telephone with key that is shared over open line.

A VPN, in order to be completely reliable, must be run on dedicated hardware that sits between your computer and the rest of the internet as a buffer ("DMZ"), with one side facing out and one side facing the LAN. The easiest and cheapest way to run this is by using a router running a hardened linux install, but a full computer can be used as well (although almost all of its power and storage is going to waste). This is necessary so that you can program a set range of IP addresses (no more than the machines running concurrently), and also do MAC verification.

The second best solution is to run a virtual machine and have your non-virtual PC act as the VPN dedicated server, with a separate IP bridge as all virtual machines have; this guarantees a fail-safe, as if the VPN stops working, the virtual machine can see no internet. However, VMs are slow, slow, slow, and that introduces several security problems (hypervisor escalation) of its own, or the constant sysopping of two machines simultaneously.

The third best solution is that any VPN app should install a driver at the protocol layer (it doesn't need to do deep inspection) which cuts all connections when the VPN goes down. A Network bridge can also serve this purpose. A filter driver attached to the IP stack can also do a lot of other stuff if it's DPI enabled and not just stateful. Stateful can ensure that a non-compromised machine (as viruses that root your machine are going to hijack all but the best programmed and deeply embedded code-injected kernel-object style drivers, let alone loadable kernel modules) will always access the internet through the VPN. This can also be used to disable the normal driver with additional effort.

Anything that puts everything on one operating system will be vulnerable: that's why "security in depth" or layered security is needed, and fail-safe exception handling. Only poor programming at its worst would let a software fail at its primary function without either failing safely or failing loudly. It's like a firewall that allows connections without asking, or an encryptor that goes through thirty rounds of encryption but inevitably maps A=A,B=B... on the last round. Essentially, only really bad program fails in such a manner; one needs to use good software. One could install VPN, and, if it was backdoored (e.g. either not very trusted nor open-source and verified, along with a PGP sig to make sure the bin is clean or a self-make bin, and was either programmed with a backdoor or was compromised bin), one would end up much worse off than starting with.

The fourth best, and lowest still adequate solution is to manually program the IP addresses of the two different networks in to the PC (both windows and linux have utilities for this), and then disable the non-secure network or bridge them.
So it all still boils down to the fact that, if poorly implemented, this tech will still leave the user vulnerable. And as I said, I have used one that unfortunately breaks; leaving the internet connection intact.
__________________
Die Bibel ist nicht dazu da, daß wir sie kritisieren, sondern dazu, daß sie uns kritisiert. Søren Kierkegaard
Wer mit dem Katholizismus nicht einverstanden ist, der soll protestantisch oder atheistisch werden, aber nicht versuchen, ihn durch Reformen zu verunstalten. P. Feyerabend
Lord have mercy
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  #56  
Old Feb 21, '12, 7:58 am
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kelvinf kelvinf is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenofovir View Post
The provider provides the physical address but it's still your name, surname and email address in the contact info for the domain (under registrant). The domain belongs to you for the period you pay it for. It's not the domain provider registering the domain in their name, they only provide the physical address and telephone number. The tel number is optional and can be a foreign number anyway. And domains such as .SU, .TO and .WS don't need a Russian, Tonga or Western Samoan address.

What is most? >50%? I'm still correct. The domain is still registered under your name and email address. The physical contact detail address is theirs but you can put in a friend's or a family member's. Since the email address is yours they can't block transfer of the domain to a different registrar.

Now there are exceptions. To register a CO.JP domain name you actually need to be a registered business in Japan. You must have property there and be an actual entity. Domain provider can't give you that, as that info is verified by the registry very strictly. They also only allow one per entity, hence amazon.co.jp and not amazoncorp.co.jp and amazonmusic.co.jp and amazonmovies.co.jp etc.
Ok, I LOL
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Die Bibel ist nicht dazu da, daß wir sie kritisieren, sondern dazu, daß sie uns kritisiert. Søren Kierkegaard
Wer mit dem Katholizismus nicht einverstanden ist, der soll protestantisch oder atheistisch werden, aber nicht versuchen, ihn durch Reformen zu verunstalten. P. Feyerabend
Lord have mercy
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  #57  
Old Feb 21, '12, 7:59 am
Tenofovir Tenofovir is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvinf View Post
So it all still boils down to the fact that, if poorly implemented, this tech will still leave the user vulnerable. And as I said, I have used one that unfortunately breaks; leaving the internet connection intact.
But you're in Germany. VPN can break occasionally in Germany. What you don't want is to have one breaking if you're in Egypt/Iran/Iraq etc.
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  #58  
Old Feb 21, '12, 8:01 am
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kelvinf kelvinf is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

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Originally Posted by Tenofovir View Post
But you're in Germany. VPN can break occasionally in Germany. What you don't want is to have one breaking if you're in Egypt/Iran/Iraq etc.
But how would the user know that his VPN client is reliable?
__________________
Die Bibel ist nicht dazu da, daß wir sie kritisieren, sondern dazu, daß sie uns kritisiert. Søren Kierkegaard
Wer mit dem Katholizismus nicht einverstanden ist, der soll protestantisch oder atheistisch werden, aber nicht versuchen, ihn durch Reformen zu verunstalten. P. Feyerabend
Lord have mercy
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  #59  
Old Feb 21, '12, 8:05 am
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

And fortunately or unfortunately, people do use smartphones because they are smarter than computers

Quote:
Mike, kletiz, stupid, hey you, dumbass, on January 26, 2012 (Version 1.0.2)
VPN Disconnected Notification
I'm using this to tether my phone to my laptop and be 100% undetectable so I don't lose my unlimited data from AT$T. After doing so for a few days now, I've noticed that I randomly get disconnected from VPN and I unknowingly continue to browse the web. A feature I would like is to have some sort of notification sound/vibration of when I get disconnected, that way I can seize my browsing until I get reconnected.
__________________
Die Bibel ist nicht dazu da, daß wir sie kritisieren, sondern dazu, daß sie uns kritisiert. Søren Kierkegaard
Wer mit dem Katholizismus nicht einverstanden ist, der soll protestantisch oder atheistisch werden, aber nicht versuchen, ihn durch Reformen zu verunstalten. P. Feyerabend
Lord have mercy
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  #60  
Old Feb 21, '12, 8:35 am
Tenofovir Tenofovir is offline
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Default Re: Digital "right to be forgotten" to be made EU law

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvinf View Post
But how would the user know that his VPN client is reliable?
Well it's at least as reliable as the rest of the software he's running. We've been over this before. How do you know that it's OK to use your credit card on Amazon.de to buy those Knight Rider David Hassellhof DVDs, Blurays, books, CDs, merchandise, posters, clothes, etc.? (No need to point out my clairvoyance, I know the Hoff is No 1 in Germany) Well, you know by inference. You've patched your Windows. You have a good AV. You don't run dodgy programs. Likewise you have your VPN and you can see it's connected. Now and again you could do a traceroute and see that you're really going through a different server than your ISP's. Check out GoTrusted - they have a free 7 day trial - and you can see for yourself if the VPN disconnects or not. I think it installs a device driver - miniport - which routes all traffic. It has an activity indicator.
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