Trinity

[Swiss Guy]

It also goes with the Procession of the Holy Spirit, but I think of it kind of like this: The Father is a spring from which comes water. The Son is a river, and the Holy Spirit is the sea which the water from the river and the spring (Father and Son) go. Except think of it like the spring river and sea have always been. They are all of the same Substance, but three distinct Persons. That's an analogy I like. It may not be perfect, but it's the best I've heard.

I know you don't want books, but I still strongly recommend the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Trinity, the Athanasian Creed and the Nicene Creed.

[thenobes]

Originally Posted by Dan McVay

In a family, each member makes up a part of the flesh of the family, and persons can be added and subtracted through birth and death. But with the Trinity, each person is the entirety of the substance of God. A father of a family is not the family, but the Father is God.

Dan,

I think there is a misunderstanding here. The relevant analogy is:

family = Trinity.

God is a family, however, in nature. Actually, he is trintarian in nature. Each person of the trinity is trinitaterian in nature in that all the other persons of the trinity subsist in that person, just as each subsists in God.. But each is not equal to that person.

The Holy Trinity refers not to God directly, but to the characteristic of His nature; that it, that it subsists in 3 persons.

Sometimes characteristics of God are looked upon as He Himself. E.g., the Divine Mercy or the Sacred Heart of Jesus..

peace
steve

[Dan McVay]

Originally Posted by thenobes

Dan,

I think there is a misunderstanding here. The relevant analogy is:

family = Trinity.

God is a family, however, in nature. Actually, he is trintarian in nature. Each person of the trinity is trinitaterian in nature in that all the other persons of the trinity subsist in that person, just as each subsists in God.. But each is not equal to that person.

The Holy Trinity refers not to God directly, but to the characteristic of His nature; that it, that it subsists in 3 persons.

Sometimes characteristics of God are looked upon as He Himself. E.g., the Divine Mercy or the Sacred Heart of Jesus..

peace
steve

So you are saying God is nothing like a family of humans?

[noobio]

Originally Posted by Dan McVay

Can someone explain the Trinity in a clear way? Please don't just name a book; I already have a few books on the subject. How is it that the Father is God and that the Son is God, but the Father is not the Son? That seems to imply that identity is not transitive, that the Trinity is expressing modalism, or that the Father and Son are only part of God. But the doctrine rejects the last two options and the first would put the Trinity at odds with the basis of logic (and language).

Thanks for help.

Maybe this example can help you out.

Water can be in both liquid, gas and solid. Just as God is the Father, the Son the Holy Spirit. All are sepreate persons but, one God. The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit and the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, but they are the same God.

In my oppinion, there is no way to explain the trinity ( which is God himself) in a way humans can completly understand him.

[Eric Hyom]

Can the greatest commandments possibly describe how Christ is one with the Father? When Jesus spent his time on Earth he would have lived by these commandments,

Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
Jesus loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.

Does God the Father respond to this love?

God the Father loves God the Son, with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
God the Father loves each and everyone of us as he loves himself.

Can God the Father or Son love us more than they love themselves.

Can the spirit be the power of God’s love working through the greatest commandments? This passage links the spirit and the greatest commandments…

1 Samuel 18 (New International)

1 Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself

[Trebor135]

Originally Posted by Dan McVay

Isn't the water analogy modalism (a heresy)?

Indeed.

A far better analogy I've heard compares the trinity with the sun. I hope someone knowledgeable here will be able to give a clear and concise explanation (I read about the analogy too long ago and I don't recall exactly where).

[hockeyfan]

Originally Posted by Dan McVay

Isn't the water analogy modalism (a heresy)?

Not as I meant it. I was using it as a way to explain how they are different, but still God. I would not say that they are God expressing himself in different way. Instead, I would say that the water has different properties in its different states. I was using its different states as a metaphor for God's different expressions. The water as a whole for God, and the states as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As with most analogies, they don't his it in every single aspect. Still, it is a simple way to explain it.

[jesusmylover]

Originally Posted by Dan McVay

Can someone explain the Trinity in a clear way? Please don't just name a book; I already have a few books on the subject. How is it that the Father is God and that the Son is God, but the Father is not the Son? That seems to imply that identity is not transitive, that the Trinity is expressing modalism, or that the Father and Son are only part of God. But the doctrine rejects the last two options and the first would put the Trinity at odds with the basis of logic (and language).

Thanks for help.

In Mathematics, your teacher told you that 1 + 1 +1 = 3
But in Theology, 1 +1 + 1 = 1

It's three in One, three persons in the Same. If you remember the baptism of Jesus you can understand better : The voice of Father in the sky, Jesus who was receiving the baptism, and The holly spirit under the dove form.

Do you understand better?