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  #76  
Old Feb 17, '12, 11:55 pm
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Inego de Loyola Inego de Loyola is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

Callisto, I'm sorry if my last post was too harsh; I didn't meant to put you off this discussion. We would like to hear back from you.
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  #77  
Old Feb 21, '12, 9:32 am
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by Leegal View Post
If I'm not mistaken, they have supporting evidence of the existence of a common female ancestor or "Eve" through mitochonrial DNA, however she had contemporaries whose MtDNA did not get passed on because at some point, whatever contemporaries she might have had, did not produce female children. That "Eve" produced females so her MtDNA continued to be passed on. That would be how the theory works.

I believe they are working to toward the existence or evidence of a common male ancestor, but I'm not sure where they are with that and much more difficult to find supporting evidence.

http://www.stonepages.com/news/archives/003978.html and

http://syllabus.med.unc.edu/yr4/gen/...itochnotes.htm
This "Eve theory" does not meet the specifications of the Catholic doctrine of monogenism.
  #78  
Old Feb 25, '12, 2:36 am
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

Unfortunately, many Catholics are not up to date with 21st century science, especially in the area where biological theories intersect with Catholic doctrines regarding human origin, human nature, original sin, and the salvific mission of Jesus Christ, True Man and True God.

Catholics are not permitted to accept biological opinions (polygenism in the 21st century) which deny the reality of two, sole, founders of the human race, biblically known as Adam and Eve. The Catholic doctrine is known as monogenism.

Sources: St. Paul, St. Thomas Aquinas, De Malo 4.1, Council of Trent DS 1511-1512, Humani Generis Section 37, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition paragraphs 355 - 421.

The *evidence* used in biological research does not warrant the exclusion of the real first human. At best, science can infer that two founders of humanity may be improbable, but their existence remains possible.
  #79  
Old Feb 25, '12, 9:46 am
Roy5 Roy5 is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

The insistence of fundamentalist factions within Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant, that the story of Adam and Eve is historical rather than a myth, legend and/or parable helps explain why adherents of ''no religion" are increasing in the US and throughout the western world, once the heartland of the faith.

Most educated and thinking people simply cannot believe, for example, that woman was made from man's rib, that Satan in the form of a serpent came to tempt them, that they were kicked out of an idyllic garden, that man's toil, woman's pain at childbirth, and the serpent slithering on the ground were punishments, etc. And how just is it (and forgiving) that because of their sin all of their descendants deserve eternal punishment without faith in Christ? That's not a religion I can swallow. A useful parable? Okay.

Besides, if Adam and Eve were forbidden the knowledge of good and evil, how could they be condemned for doing evil? Kierkegaard, the Danish theologian, points out that they must have been like little children in that they did not yet know right from wrong because they were not allowed to eat from that one tree that would have provided such knowledge. .

Frankly, my interpretation of Christianity ignores much of Old Testament scripture, such as the Tower of Babel (languages stem from that?) and Noah and the Flood (you mean God deliberately drowned all those wee ones, some yet in the womb, because of their sin?). And I can't believe - either - that God ordered Joshua to slaughter the inhabitants of Jericho, Ai and other towns, that God commanded Saul to exterminate every living Amalakite, etc. My God would never demand such genocide. And what do you do with a passage like II Kings 2:23-25, when the Lord dispatches two she-bears to maul 42 youth because they made fun of Elisha's bald head? Give me a break!

The Bible has much of value, but Christians need to stop affirming falsehoods. We can sound a lot like Muslim extremists who worship their scriptures. As for myself, I worship a loving, just, merciful God and anything in the Bible that conflicts with that leads me to question it.

God bless the whole world - no exceptions. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier.
  #80  
Old Feb 25, '12, 10:00 am
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buffalo buffalo is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by Roy5 View Post
The insistence of fundamentalist factions within Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant, that the story of Adam and Eve is historical rather than a myth, legend and/or parable helps explain why adherents of ''no religion" are increasing in the US and throughout the western world, once the heartland of the faith.

Most educated and thinking people simply cannot believe, for example, that woman was made from man's rib, that Satan in the form of a serpent came to tempt them, that they were kicked out of an idyllic garden, that man's toil, woman's pain at childbirth, and the serpent slithering on the ground were punishments, etc. And how just is it (and forgiving) that because of their sin all of their descendants deserve eternal punishment without faith in Christ? That's not a religion I can swallow. A useful parable? Okay.

Besides, if Adam and Eve were forbidden the knowledge of good and evil, how could they be condemned for doing evil? Kierkegaard, the Danish theologian, points out that they must have been like little children in that they did not yet know right from wrong because they were not allowed to eat from that one tree that would have provided such knowledge. .

Frankly, my interpretation of Christianity ignores much of Old Testament scripture, such as the Tower of Babel (languages stem from that?) and Noah and the Flood (you mean God deliberately drowned all those wee ones, some yet in the womb, because of their sin?). And I can't believe - either - that God ordered Joshua to slaughter the inhabitants of Jericho, Ai and other towns, that God commanded Saul to exterminate every living Amalakite, etc. My God would never demand such genocide. And what do you do with a passage like II Kings 2:23-25, when the Lord dispatches two she-bears to maul 42 youth because they made fun of Elisha's bald head? Give me a break!

The Bible has much of value, but Christians need to stop affirming falsehoods. We can sound a lot like Muslim extremists who worship their scriptures. As for myself, I worship a loving, just, merciful God and anything in the Bible that conflicts with that leads me to question it.

God bless the whole world - no exceptions. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier.
Lots of stem cells in the rib.
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IDvolution - God "breathed" the super language of DNA into the "kinds" in the creative act. Buffalo

"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is a thought of God."

“Science presupposes the trustworthy, intelligent structure of matter, the ‘design’ of creation.”

"A man of conscience, is one who never acquires tolerance, well- being, success, public standing, and approval on the part of prevailing opinion, at the expense of truth."
Pope Benedict XVI

  #81  
Old Feb 25, '12, 1:48 pm
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donsnow donsnow is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy5 View Post
The insistence of fundamentalist factions within Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant, that the story of Adam and Eve is historical rather than a myth, legend and/or parable helps explain why adherents of ''no religion" are increasing in the US and throughout the western world, once the heartland of the faith.

Most educated and thinking people simply cannot believe, for example, that woman was made from man's rib, that Satan in the form of a serpent came to tempt them, that they were kicked out of an idyllic garden, that man's toil, woman's pain at childbirth, and the serpent slithering on the ground were punishments, etc. And how just is it (and forgiving) that because of their sin all of their descendants deserve eternal punishment without faith in Christ? That's not a religion I can swallow. A useful parable? Okay.

Besides, if Adam and Eve were forbidden the knowledge of good and evil, how could they be condemned for doing evil? Kierkegaard, the Danish theologian, points out that they must have been like little children in that they did not yet know right from wrong because they were not allowed to eat from that one tree that would have provided such knowledge. .

Frankly, my interpretation of Christianity ignores much of Old Testament scripture, such as the Tower of Babel (languages stem from that?) and Noah and the Flood (you mean God deliberately drowned all those wee ones, some yet in the womb, because of their sin?). And I can't believe - either - that God ordered Joshua to slaughter the inhabitants of Jericho, Ai and other towns, that God commanded Saul to exterminate every living Amalakite, etc. My God would never demand such genocide. And what do you do with a passage like II Kings 2:23-25, when the Lord dispatches two she-bears to maul 42 youth because they made fun of Elisha's bald head? Give me a break!

The Bible has much of value, but Christians need to stop affirming falsehoods. We can sound a lot like Muslim extremists who worship their scriptures. As for myself, I worship a loving, just, merciful God and anything in the Bible that conflicts with that leads me to question it.

God bless the whole world - no exceptions. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier.

God afternoon, Roy5,

I love our butt kicking but kind to the broken sinner God all the more because of the things you disbelieve.

I just can't see things through your politically correct relative morals rose tinted glasses the way you and the others do.

To me, the sparsely available evidence indicates that the human race was decimated all over the planet by the Toba explosion and that pockets of survivors all over the planet were all that remained. After that, God created Adam and Eve in a pocket uninhabited by other hominids. They had more children than just Cain, Abel and Seth, including daughters and the human race found its genesis in that family. The insanity resulting from that incestuous start lasts to this day and explains this crazy world's crazy histories and crazy contemporary conditions. I also go along with original sin.

Any culture that tears another culture up by the roots and attempts to impose the tearing culture's values is insane. And, that's what's happening in America and the rest of the world.

God loves you,
Don
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  #82  
Old Feb 25, '12, 2:14 pm
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Inego de Loyola Inego de Loyola is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by donsnow View Post
To me, the sparsely available evidence indicates that the human race was decimated all over the planet by the Toba explosion and that pockets of survivors all over the planet were all that remained. After that, God created Adam and Eve in a pocket uninhabited by other hominids. They had more children than just Cain, Abel and Seth, including daughters and the human race found its genesis in that family. The insanity resulting from that incestuous start lasts to this day and explains this crazy world's crazy histories and crazy contemporary conditions. I also go along with original sin.
I mostly agree with you except your timeline regarding the bolded portion of your post is backwards. I'm assuming it's a typo.
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But there are some people, nevertheless−−and I am one of them−− who think that the most practical and important thing about a man is still his view of the universe.
Heretics by G.K. Chesterton
  #83  
Old Feb 25, '12, 2:19 pm
Birdpreacher Birdpreacher is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

Yes, Science has yet to buy our story that a snake could talk.
  #84  
Old Feb 25, '12, 2:22 pm
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donsnow donsnow is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by Inego de Loyola View Post
I mostly agree with you except your timeline regarding the bolded portion of your post is backwards. I'm assuming it's a typo.

Good afternoon, Inego de Loyola,

Oh, I see what you mean.

No, I meant after the Toba explosion God created Homo Sapiens sapiens. I distrust the reading of the genomes showing Homo Sapiens sapiens as having evolved and as having evolved before the Toba explosion.
I'm just not as credulous about the findings of geneticists as the usual college student or ordinary layman. Nor, have I subjected myself to the classroom authority of atheist and/ or socialist professors, that I should neither doubt Holy Scripture nor scorn my native land.

God loves you,
Don


God loves you,
Don
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God is love - St. John

Prayer is the purest form of human love - Don D. Snow

We're all God's creatures...and some humans can be His children. - Don D. Snow

Even the ignorant, may have wisdom. Anonymous
  #85  
Old Feb 27, '12, 8:24 am
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

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Yes, Science has yet to buy our story that a snake could talk.
Scientists do not have to deal with talking snakes, unless they are about to strike.

Talking snakes are one of the unnecessary problems when Catholics do not understand what is involved with a literal Adam and Eve. As I think about the first three chapters of Genesis, there is so much unnecessary confusion..............

Life would be so much simpler, if one learned the Catholic doctrines first.
  #86  
Old Feb 27, '12, 10:45 am
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donsnow donsnow is offline
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Default Re: doesn't science disprove a literal Adam and Eve

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Originally Posted by grannymh View Post
Scientists do not have to deal with talking snakes, unless they are about to strike.

Talking snakes are one of the unnecessary problems when Catholics do not understand what is involved with a literal Adam and Eve. As I think about the first three chapters of Genesis, there is so much unnecessary confusion..............

Life would be so much simpler, if one learned the Catholic doctrines first.


Good afternoon, granny,

Oh, yes. I'm a convert and am still unlearning Baptist interpretation of scripture.

God loves you,
Don
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God is love - St. John

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We're all God's creatures...and some humans can be His children. - Don D. Snow

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