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  #1  
Old Feb 25, '12, 5:44 am
russialover russialover is offline
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Default "Rejection of my heritage"

Hello, recently my parents have been guilting me into the fact that I've left the Latin Church as my spiritual home, and choose the East (at first a Ruthenian parish, but due to latinisation, my spiritual home is a OCA parish). My parents have been saying that I have betrayed my heritage, which makes relatively no sense, seeing as my mother is actually Ukrainian Greek(however chooses not to believe me, she was never raised in anything but the Latin Church), and my father is from Sicily, a part of New Rome's jurisdiction before part if the West's. I would like to add, I am not Eastern Orthodox, I just attend an Orthodox parish. Advice? Thank you and a Blessed Great Lent!
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  #2  
Old Feb 25, '12, 6:40 am
Hesychios Hesychios is offline
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Smile Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

Well, that's pretty ironic, as you say. Especially since if we as a people take that argument seriously enough the Sicilians would still be worshiping Zeus like their Greek ancestors and the Ukrainians would still be worshiping Perun.

But it's not a religious argument, the same can be said when a person joins a political party which is different from grandpa's party or when one chooses to use another language over the dinner table.

But the truth is we all reject our heritage daily, because modern culture continues to evolve (and homogenize) and we drop the practices of the past with great ease, often without making a conscious choice but in fact being influenced by the neighbors, the media and Madison Avenue. The only people who take a definite stance against that might be Amish, who eschew buttons and electric lights.

Congratulations on rediscovering part of your ancient heritage and making some good use of it.
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  #3  
Old Feb 25, '12, 9:53 am
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by russialover View Post
Hello, recently my parents have been guilting me into the fact that I've left the Latin Church as my spiritual home, and choose the East (at first a Ruthenian parish, but due to latinisation, my spiritual home is a OCA parish). My parents have been saying that I have betrayed my heritage, which makes relatively no sense, seeing as my mother is actually Ukrainian Greek(however chooses not to believe me, she was never raised in anything but the Latin Church), and my father is from Sicily, a part of New Rome's jurisdiction before part if the West's. I would like to add, I am not Eastern Orthodox, I just attend an Orthodox parish. Advice? Thank you and a Blessed Great Lent!
Are you sure it is an issue of heritage rather than Catholic vs Orthodox (OCA)?

If your Father a Catholic of the Latin Church canonically (by transfer or church of parent or guardian) and your parents agreed that you would be Latin - assuming infant baptism - rather than Ukrainian-Greek, then the current canons have you enrolled in the Latin Church.

It may be difficult to canonically transfer to the Ukrainian-Greek or Ruthenian without being a regular member of an eastern Catholic Church. The bishops/eparchs can judge the status of a person and grant transfers.
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  #4  
Old Feb 27, '12, 4:33 pm
russialover russialover is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

No, it was a problem even when I was attending a Ruthenian parish ( i left because it was heavily latinised and didn't have any youth att all). They have called me a deserter and wonder if I'm going to convert to Judaism next year :roll eyes:. Should I have them talk to their Latin priest? I try telling them that our late parish priest made the change to the Latin Church, so if Im a deserter, so is he; they wouldn't have any of it.
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  #5  
Old Feb 27, '12, 4:48 pm
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by russialover View Post
Hello, recently my parents have been guilting me into the fact that I've left the Latin Church as my spiritual home, and choose the East (at first a Ruthenian parish, but due to latinisation, my spiritual home is a OCA parish). My parents have been saying that I have betrayed my heritage, which makes relatively no sense, seeing as my mother is actually Ukrainian Greek(however chooses not to believe me, she was never raised in anything but the Latin Church), and my father is from Sicily, a part of New Rome's jurisdiction before part if the West's. I would like to add, I am not Eastern Orthodox, I just attend an Orthodox parish. Advice? Thank you and a Blessed Great Lent!
Just a question.

How can you be a Catholic if you do not follow the canons of the Catholic Church?

Or do you participate in your Catholic parish?
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  #6  
Old Feb 27, '12, 4:50 pm
russialover russialover is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

what do u been by participate?
I attend liturgy at an Orthodox parish, but I teach CCD at my families latin parish and am in the youth group. Also, if I've read correctly, the canons state one can attend Orthodox services if there is spiritual need.
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  #7  
Old Feb 27, '12, 5:00 pm
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

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Originally Posted by russialover View Post
what do u been by participate?
I attend liturgy at an Orthodox parish, but I teach CCD at my families latin parish and am in the youth group. Also, if I've read correctly, the canons state one can attend Orthodox services if there is spiritual need.
I do not believe this is so.

For a Latin Catholic, which you are as you belong to the Church of your father, you are required to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Day of Obligations.

I have seen things that say or imply that an Eastern Catholic may fulfill this obligation by attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy but not that they can do this on a regular basis.

You must also receive the Sacrament of Penance which you can not do within the Orthodox Church.

There is also the requirement of reception of the Eucharist at least once a year. I am sure that the OCA Church does not allow a Catholic to receive the Eucharist.
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  #8  
Old Feb 27, '12, 5:05 pm
russialover russialover is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

I do attend mass at the Latin parish on occasion (Christmas, Western Easter, etc...), and confess to that parishes' priest. However, even though I have not officially have changed over, I consider myself a Greek Catholic, not Latin.
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  #9  
Old Feb 27, '12, 5:12 pm
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

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Originally Posted by russialover View Post
I do attend mass at the Latin parish on occasion (Christmas, Western Easter, etc...), and confess to that parishes' priest. However, even though I have not officially have changed over, I consider myself a Greek Catholic, not Latin.
Again, even a Byzantine Catholic (you need to belong to a particular Byzantine Catholic Church, there is no such thing as a Greek Catholic not ascribed to a Catholic Church) you must attend a Byzantine parish.
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  #10  
Old Feb 27, '12, 7:29 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by russialover View Post
what do u been by participate?
I attend liturgy at an Orthodox parish, but I teach CCD at my families latin parish and am in the youth group. Also, if I've read correctly, the canons state one can attend Orthodox services if there is spiritual need.
The Sunday obligation is from the fact that the "Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice" (
Catechism, no. 2181). Thus it is tied to the Eucharist celebrated in the Catholic Church. The eastern canons show the importance of this, and also we are not free to receive the sacraments in non-Catholic Churches ordinarily, because this shows indifference.

Sharing in Sacramental Life, especially the Eucharist
a) Sharing in Sacramental Life with members of the various Eastern Churches
122. Between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Churches not in full communion with it, there is still a very close communion in matters of faith.125 Moreover, "through the celebration of the Eucharist of the Lord in each of these Churches, the Church of God is built up and grows in stature" and "although separated from us, these Churches still possess true sacraments, above all—by apostolic succession—the priesthood and the Eucharist...".126 This offers ecclesiological and sacramental grounds, according to the understanding of the Catholic Church, for allowing and even encouraging some sharing in liturgical worship, even of the Eucharist, with these Churches, "given suitable circumstances and the approval of church authorities".127 It is recognized, however, that Eastern Churches, on the basis of their own ecclesiological understanding, may have more restrictive disciplines in this matter, which others should respect. Pastors should carefully instruct the faithful so that they will be clearly aware of the proper reasons for this kind of sharing in liturgical worship and of the variety of discipline which may exist in this connection.
123. Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for any Catholic for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick from a minister of an Eastern Church.128
124. Since practice differs between Catholics and Eastern Christians in the matter of frequent communion, confession before communion and the Eucharistic fast, care must be taken to avoid scandal and suspicion among Eastern Christians through Catholics not following the Eastern usage. A Catholic who legitimately wishes to communicate with Eastern Christians must respect the Eastern discipline as much as possible and refrain from communicating if that Church restricts sacramental communion to its own members to the exclusion of others.


http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/po...ectory_en.html


CCEO Canon 881

1. The Christian faithful are bound by the obligation to participate on Sundays and feast days in the Divine Liturgy, or according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church sui iuris, in the celebration of the divine praises.
2. In order for the Christian faithful to fulfill this obligation more easily, the available time runs from the evening of the vigil until the end of the Sunday or feast day.
3. The Christian faithful are strongly recommended to receive the Divine Eucharist on these days and indeed more frequently, even daily.
4. The Christian faithful should abstain from those labors or business matters which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's day, or to the proper relaxation of mind and body.

http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_INDEX.HTM


60. The Eucharist is to be distributed in the Divine Liturgy
The participation of the Christian faithful in the sacrifice of Christ is more complete if in the course of the celebration the faithful, after the priest's Communion, receive the Body of the Lord from the same Sacrifice. Such an arrangement, inspired by n. 55 of <Sacrosanctum Concilium>, underscores the importance of holy Communion and, at the same time, the link between it and the offering of the eucharistic Sacrifice. For this reason, can. 713 § 1 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches establishes that "the Divine Eucharist is to be distributed in the celebration of the Divine Liturgy, unless a just cause suggests otherwise." Such practice should be considered the only normal one, except for the case of Communion for the sick who are not present or Communion of the presanctified on non-liturgical days.

http://www.byzcath.org/faith/documents/instruction.htm
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  #11  
Old Feb 27, '12, 8:11 pm
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

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Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Well, that's pretty ironic, as you say. Especially since if we as a people take that argument seriously enough the Sicilians would still be worshiping Zeus like their Greek ancestors and the Ukrainians would still be worshiping Perun.

But it's not a religious argument, the same can be said when a person joins a political party which is different from grandpa's party or when one chooses to use another language over the dinner table.

But the truth is we all reject our heritage daily, because modern culture continues to evolve (and homogenize) and we drop the practices of the past with great ease, often without making a conscious choice but in fact being influenced by the neighbors, the media and Madison Avenue. The only people who take a definite stance against that might be Amish, who eschew buttons and electric lights.

Congratulations on rediscovering part of your ancient heritage and making some good use of it.
Great post!
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"Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her."- Catechism of the Catholic Church, "Toward Unity" (CCC 820)
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  #12  
Old Feb 27, '12, 8:21 pm
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by russialover View Post
Hello, recently my parents have been guilting me into the fact that I've left the Latin Church as my spiritual home, and choose the East (at first a Ruthenian parish, but due to latinisation, my spiritual home is a OCA parish). My parents have been saying that I have betrayed my heritage, which makes relatively no sense, seeing as my mother is actually Ukrainian Greek(however chooses not to believe me, she was never raised in anything but the Latin Church), and my father is from Sicily, a part of New Rome's jurisdiction before part if the West's. I would like to add, I am not Eastern Orthodox, I just attend an Orthodox parish. Advice? Thank you and a Blessed Great Lent!
We pray you find a spiritual home that is fulfilling to you and keeps you close to the Lord at all times, and pray your parents respect your final decision. While as a father and fellow Christian I cannot advocate disobedience to one's parents, but I am assuming you are of age and that your parents will ultimately respect and support your choice.

I am truly sorry to hear that you found a Ruthenian parish that you considered "latinized". The Ruthenians have come a long way, but there have been challenges as well. If there are specific things that trouble you about your experience there, I would be happy to discuss them with you via PM if you are interested (no need to disclose the parish, just the issues and observations).

There is nothing wrong with experiencing the East in an Orthodox parish: we Catholics have been encouraged to do so. That said, I would assume that you might want to remain Catholic. Perhaps that is what concerns your parents the most, and not necessarily turning Eastward.
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"Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her."- Catechism of the Catholic Church, "Toward Unity" (CCC 820)
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  #13  
Old Feb 27, '12, 8:40 pm
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

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Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor View Post
There is nothing wrong with experiencing the East in an Orthodox parish: we Catholics have been encouraged to do so. That said, I would assume that you might want to remain Catholic. Perhaps that is what concerns your parents the most, and not necessarily turning Eastward.
While we may be encouraged to experience an Orthodox parish the Church clearly does not encourage us to make it our spiritual home thereby neglecting out Catholic parishes.
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  #14  
Old Feb 27, '12, 8:58 pm
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

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Originally Posted by ByzCath View Post
While we may be encouraged to experience an Orthodox parish the Church clearly does not encourage us to make it our spiritual home thereby neglecting out Catholic parishes.
Forgive me - I did not realize that by making a factual statement I would be encouraging someone to leave the Catholic Church, and that being "encouraged to experience" the East meant converting to Orthodoxy.
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"Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her."- Catechism of the Catholic Church, "Toward Unity" (CCC 820)
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  #15  
Old Feb 28, '12, 4:58 am
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: "Rejection of my heritage"

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Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor View Post
Forgive me - I did not realize that by making a factual statement I would be encouraging someone to leave the Catholic Church, and that being "encouraged to experience" the East meant converting to Orthodoxy.
I am sorry that you have taken offense at my clarifying your "factual statement" but I thought it was necessary in this thread due to the misguided nature of the OP who seems to take that "statement" as reasoning for doing just what I warned against.
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