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  #31  
Old Feb 24, '12, 9:00 am
FaithfulAndTrue FaithfulAndTrue is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

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Originally Posted by ChibiViolet View Post
If Judism didn't start with Adam and Eve than when did it start?
A person that we call a "Jew" today is a descendant of Abraham via Isaac via Jacob. You may recall that God changed Jacob's name to Israel (Gen 32:27-28).
  #32  
Old Feb 24, '12, 8:45 pm
Jaboshua Jaboshua is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

[quote=Nine_Two;8995790]I'm not aware of any theory that places Ur in Arabia. Chaldeans are one of the Semitic groups you mentioned in your post.

They were Babylonians, weren't they?
  #33  
Old Feb 24, '12, 9:35 pm
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

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Originally Posted by Daralharb View Post
Considering that the thread title is totally false in truth, I find it hilarious that you people are arguing over something such as this.

Buddhism was started around 460BC. Hinduism goes back to around 1700BC-1100BC, depending on what you considering the starting, and even that is just based on certain texts from which they pull modern Hindu understanding; it doesn't mean that's the official "founding" as it is nothing more than indus Valley animism and paganism with a possible mix of interaction with the nephilim/rephaim post-Flood (which still existed after due to an impure bloodline in one of Noah's daughter in law). Jacob was born in around 2000 BC.
Yep. Your response to your friends asking this question is to ask them for some proof that Buddhism and Hinduism are older. They aren't.
  #34  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:11 am
Sufjon Sufjon is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

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Originally Posted by zz912 View Post
Yep. Your response to your friends asking this question is to ask them for some proof that Buddhism and Hinduism are older. They aren't.
The earliest evidence for prehistoric religion in India date back to the late Neolithic in the early Harappan period (5500–2600 BCE), however, it has developed and evolved over time. It can also be said that Abrahamic faiths have ancient roots, while not as old, but they too have evolved over time. In both cases, the iterations of these traditions that we have today are built on these older foundations, but recognizably different in many aspects in their current form. In and of itself, the age of these traditions has no bearing on their veracity and doesn't well serve a meaningful dialog from a practical or logical perspective. Moreover, the topic of there being one true religion serves no spiritual purpose, because in fact there is no hard evidence whatsoever for what any of them believe. The measure of what is true in a religion is the dimension of spirituality and meaning it brings to one's life. As far back as we are able to see, humankind has intuited the existence of a broader consciousness that pervades all of nature - an underlying current of perception that we share with all living things. It brings about a sense that our true being lies somewhere beyond the realm of sentient experience which is confined to the physical world in which our senses and mind operate. Because we are oriented toward the experience of the physical world of sentience and mind, we have limited ourselves to the tool kit that realm offers for reasoning. Operating in that arena, we are left unable to verify what we perceive to be outside of, or beyond it.

If, however, we condition ourselves to listen to, and be in tune with that underlying current of consciousness we all perceive, the light that is lit by no other light starts to break through the cracks in the barrier our minds have built between the world of that which causes and the world of that which is caused. We are from the realm of that which causes, or all pervading consciousness. We know that, because we feel it, and we always have. We always fall short in proving it, because we endeavor to do so from the world that is caused.

But there are underlying truths to these religions we have formed, and they share certain core commonalities, which points to a common source. And whatever the ideology or practices that have developed for each, love of oneself, love for other people, and love for that which made us is the central theme, and this is because one is evident in the other. One who knows this begins to realize that they are evident in one another because they are truly a part of one another, which means that God is evident and expressed in all things, which is why it is especially important to love one another. One who applies themselves to this task above all others has achieved the ultimate goal of all faith traditions and has nothing more to satisfy. Arguing about whose religion is the one true one is the one is in fact one of the true ways in which to wander off the path of this realization, and serves a Catholic no better than it does a Buddhist or a Hindu.

Hey, I was listening to this song while I was writing this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHmQhvuIFSc

Just a pretty song.

Your friend,
Sufjon
  #35  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:21 am
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Vouthon Vouthon is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

A beautiful, spirit-filled and very wise post brother Sufjon

Thank you very much for gracing us with your wisdom!


“Divine truth should be a means towards union, mutual understanding and peaceful living,and not a reason for quarrels and division.”

- Pope Paul VI (Ecclesiam Suam n. 32), 1964


"...Diversity in creation and cultures is the language of God; the radical unity of the opposites. In God absolute unity is absolute multiplicity. It is you O God who is being sought in various religions in various ways and named with various names. For you remain as you are to all incomprehensible and inexpressible. When you will graciously grant it then sword, jealous hatred and evil will cease and all will come to know that there is but one religion in the variety of religious faiths..."

- Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (1401-1464)


"...If there is only one language, people [of different faiths] will understand one another, and from this understanding they will love one another and adopt from one another similar customs, which will create concord among them...Through the participation of one people with another there will be love and concord...For just as we have one God, one Creator, one Lord, we should also have one faith, one religion...one manner of loving and honouring God and we should love and help one another, and make it so that between us there be no difference [...] which causes us to be enemies with one another and to be at war, killing one another and falling captive to one another. And this war, death and servitude prevent us from giving the praise, reverence and honour we owe to God every day of our life...[And so] all men might be brought together, that they might have understanding, and love one another, and agree in the service of God...Let Christians who are well schooled and proficient in the Arabic language go to Tunis to demonstrate the truth of their faith and let Muslims who are well schooled come to the kingdom of Sicily to discuss their faith with Christian scholars. By acting in this way, maybe, there can be peace between Christians and Muslims, when in the whole world the situation will take effect that neither Christians want to destroy Muslims nor Muslims want to destroy Christians..."

- Blessed Ramon Llull (1232 – ca. 1315), Catholic mystic, philosopher,
logician and Franciscan missionary
__________________
"...Everyone who has joined the ranks of Christ must be a glowing point of light in the world, a nucleus of love, a leaven of the whole mass. He will be so in proportion to his degree of spiritual union with God..."

- Blessed Pope John XXIII, Pacem in Terris (1963)
  #36  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:40 am
Sufjon Sufjon is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

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Originally Posted by Vouthon View Post
A beautiful, spirit-filled and very wise post brother Sufjon

Thank you very much for gracing us with your wisdom!


“Divine truth should be a means towards union, mutual understanding and peaceful living,and not a reason for quarrels and division.”

- Pope Paul VI (Ecclesiam Suam n. 32), 1964


"...Diversity in creation and cultures is the language of God; the radical unity of the opposites. In God absolute unity is absolute multiplicity. It is you O God who is being sought in various religions in various ways and named with various names. For you remain as you are to all incomprehensible and inexpressible. When you will graciously grant it then sword, jealous hatred and evil will cease and all will come to know that there is but one religion in the variety of religious faiths..."

- Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (1401-1464)


"...If there is only one language, people [of different faiths] will understand one another, and from this understanding they will love one another and adopt from one another similar customs, which will create concord among them...Through the participation of one people with another there will be love and concord...For just as we have one God, one Creator, one Lord, we should also have one faith, one religion...one manner of loving and honouring God and we should love and help one another, and make it so that between us there be no difference [...] which causes us to be enemies with one another and to be at war, killing one another and falling captive to one another. And this war, death and servitude prevent us from giving the praise, reverence and honour we owe to God every day of our life...[And so] all men might be brought together, that they might have understanding, and love one another, and agree in the service of God...Let Christians who are well schooled and proficient in the Arabic language go to Tunis to demonstrate the truth of their faith and let Muslims who are well schooled come to the kingdom of Sicily to discuss their faith with Christian scholars. By acting in this way, maybe, there can be peace between Christians and Muslims, when in the whole world the situation will take effect that neither Christians want to destroy Muslims nor Muslims want to destroy Christians..."

- Blessed Ramon Llull (1232 – ca. 1315), Catholic mystic, philosopher,
logician and Franciscan missionary
Thank you so much for the kind words Vouthon! BTW - I am glad to have you as a friend, and I am still reading your notes. It will take me a while to fully digest all their meaning, and I surely appreciate your insight.

Your friend
Sufjon
  #37  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:45 am
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Vouthon Vouthon is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inego de Loyola View Post
The first Covenant with God and man was Adam's. The next was Noah's, then Abraham's, then Moses' then David's then the fulfillment of all past covenants in Christ in the New and Everlasting Covenant.

I may be missing a few but Judaism was the continuation of many prior covenants and so certainly not the first expression of God's Religion.

Amen! Precisely my dear brother


The Vatican document "Dialogue and Proclamation" published in 1991 explains:


"...The early tradition shows a remarkable openness. A number of Church Fathers take up the sapiential tradition reflected in the New Testament. In particular, writers of the second century and the first part of the third century such as Justin, Iranaeus and Clement of Alexandria, either explicitly or in an equivalent way, speak about the "seeds" sown by the Word of God in the nations. Thus it can be said that for them, prior to and outside the Christian dispensation, God has already, in an incomplete way, manifested himself. This manifestation of the Logos is an adumbration of the full revelation in Jesus Christ to which it points...History becomes salvation history, inasmuch as through it God progressively manifests himself and communicates with humankind. This process of divine manifestation and communication reaches its climax in the incarnation of the Son of God in Jesus Christ. For this reason, Irenaeus distinguishes four "covenants" given by God to the human race: in Adam, in Noah, in Moses, and in Jesus Christ. The same patristic current, whose importance is not to be underestimated, may be said to culminate in Augustine who in his later works stressed the universal presence and influence of the mystery of Christ even before the Incarnation. In fulfillment of his plan of salvation, God, in his Son, has reached out to the whole of humankind. Thus, in a certain sense, Christianity already exists "at the beginning of the human race"..."

- DIALOGUE AND PROCLAMATION (PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTER-RELIGIOUS DIALOGUE), 1991



In addition the Catholic Church recognizes the Covenant of God with Father Abraham bringing the total number of Biblical covenants to five
__________________
"...Everyone who has joined the ranks of Christ must be a glowing point of light in the world, a nucleus of love, a leaven of the whole mass. He will be so in proportion to his degree of spiritual union with God..."

- Blessed Pope John XXIII, Pacem in Terris (1963)
  #38  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:50 am
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Vouthon Vouthon is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sufjon View Post
Thank you so much for the kind words Vouthon! BTW - I am glad to have you as a friend, and I am still reading your notes. It will take me a while to fully digest all their meaning, and I surely appreciate your insight.

Your friend
Sufjon

Namaste my dear brother! I too am very happy to have you as a friend and spiritual brother.

Much love and peace to you in Christ!
__________________
"...Everyone who has joined the ranks of Christ must be a glowing point of light in the world, a nucleus of love, a leaven of the whole mass. He will be so in proportion to his degree of spiritual union with God..."

- Blessed Pope John XXIII, Pacem in Terris (1963)
  #39  
Old Feb 25, '12, 6:57 pm
Lokabrenna Lokabrenna is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

As someone who adheres to a modern faith which nonetheless has pre-Christian roots, I would just like to say: Who gives a fig how old something is, as long as it's meaningful?

I know people who currently practice a tradition that's (at best) around 60 years old (Wicca). This tradition takes ideas from many different places, but even so, it's a modern religion, and it's a baby religion compared to some of the traditions we still have, but that doesn't change the fact that that religion helps people find meaning and purpose in their llves.

Trust me, Pagans of all kinds like to point out how old the stuff we're doing is (with varying degrees of accuracy), and how much better we are than those people who have only been doing things for a couple thousand years, but the thing is, a belief can be as old as humanity, but if it doesn't speak to people, they aren't going to buy it.
  #40  
Old Mar 9, '12, 10:17 am
netineti netineti is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

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Originally Posted by FabiusMaximus View Post
What makes them think that Hinduism and Buddhism are true simply because they came before Judaism and Christianity?

I think that's a silly argument.

Christianity is the true religion not because it came first, but because it came from God. And the evidence, to me, is convincing enough to believe it to be true. The Old Testament prophets, the accuracies of the biblical accounts (eyewitness accounts), extra-biblical corroboration, and also a confirmation of faith from God. It is this that makes Christianity true to me. What do I care if it didn't come first?

Hinduism and Buddhism are also not the first religions. Animism is generally considered first. But they are not false because they were not first.
I've just been cruising around to see what's up in here, and see what piques my curiosity as to how people think. I'm kind of a radical in this department. My allegiance to the structure of how things are in the brains department adheres closely to the idea put forth by RA Heinlein in a story called Gulf, wherein the question arises as to what makes a man superior in terms of capacity. Simplistically put, that human is superior whose thinking most closely approximates reality in its functions.

Of course, we could write a book about that, as many have. I've read a lot of them, and have even spoken with or corresponded with their authors. Religion and faith have been a source of interest and action for me since I can remember, even as a small child, as I wanted to be as close to God as possible. As I grew up, I found out that religion, or at least professing one, often had little if anything to do with either good or with God, in many cases even in my birth religion, which is Roman Catholic.

So long story short, I started having problems with the structure of my faith in proportion to some mystical experiences that came into my life as I grew up. I started to become more interested in what is real, I mean really real, as distinct from what I thought was real. Certainly we have all had the experiencing the discovery that what we thought about someone or something was at the very least inaccurate, if not downright backwards.

But the point of all this rambling is that I have to ask, FM, what is there that is not from God? There most certainly are perceptions that are not aligned with the highest possible good, or God, and actions that proceed from them, which may be called wrong, evil, or sinful by our standard of morality, but there is nothing that is not as God intends it, if I read doctrine correctly.

We may not like things, or suffer because of some circumstance, or be the object of something we perceive as evil, but always we are dealing with our less than God status perceptions, no? I mean, we very well maybe doing the best we can, if we are so inclined, but we are still vastly limited, no?And I do mean [u]vastly[./U]If anyone thinks about it, I'm sure there will be some agreement here.

Some might even agree that God made things in such a way that as humans we experience some things before others. And we might say that as He told Moses, "Before Abraham was, I AM." So in human terms God, and God's Truth, have been around a bit longer than even the appearance of Our Lord in a tiny bit of real estate whose backwardsness we cannot even imagine from our keyboard and screen oriented take on existence.

But then wasn't God's Truth around before the various forms of the Church came into being? And were not all men before Jesus each and every one the Child of God in reality? And if they were, would the God we love and who loves us, not give them some insight as to who and what they were, independent of a historic event which for some was probably 100,000 years down the line?

Whatever we might think of the Church as relatively true or not compared to other religions, God is omnipresent and we are children equally regardless of what might have been put in our tiny little skulls about who came first and had what rights or privileges. I think Jesus spoke a parable about laborers in the field, no? Did He say about what faith they were or when the story took place? As far as I can read, He abstracted a dynamic which is good to this day. That means it was good before He got here as well.

And if we look at some of the stories of those faiths, should we happen to be curious that way, we might find that many stories He told existed in some form beforehand. So rather than wonder whose religion is "true," how about if we look in someone for what is good and timelessly so as distinct from getting into arguments about whose stream of teaching is from God. Want to make God laugh? make plans. Or claim something as both "yours" and "the only truth." It's all in your mind because you let it be there, eh?
  #41  
Old Mar 9, '12, 4:27 pm
Contarini Contarini is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

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Originally Posted by Daralharb View Post
Considering that the thread title is totally false in truth, I find it hilarious that you people are arguing over something such as this.

Buddhism was started around 460BC. Hinduism goes back to around 1700BC-1100BC, depending on what you considering the starting, and even that is just based on certain texts from which they pull modern Hindu understanding; it doesn't mean that's the official "founding" as it is nothing more than indus Valley animism and paganism with a possible mix of interaction with the nephilim/rephaim post-Flood (which still existed after due to an impure bloodline in one of Noah's daughter in law).
Evidence for this rather startling claim?

Quote:
Jacob was born in around 2000 BC.
That sounds way too early--but more to the point, do you have any evidence for the existence of Jacob that doesn't presuppose the divine inspiration of Scripture?

By normal, secular methods of analysis, Genesis appears to be legend written down in its present form centuries later (many would say during or after the exile, though "traditional" historical criticism puts some parts of it close to the beginning of the first millennium B.C. and recognizes that the stories probably had been handed down orally for a long time before that, which would basically be my own view).

Also, the religion of the "patriarchs" was every bit as different from later Judaism as Vedic religion was from later Hinduism.

Edwin
  #42  
Old Mar 16, '12, 10:52 pm
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jerry_joseph jerry_joseph is offline
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Default Re: If religions like Buddhism and Hinduism came before Judaism and Christianity, then why is Christianity the one true religion?

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Originally Posted by Ben Sinner View Post
I've always wanted to know this.

I can never give a good answer to my non-christians friends about this.

Due to the sins of human beings (Adam and Eve), relation between man and God was broken.. When time passed and mankind flourished over different regions of earth , they became ignorant about their creator..They feared the forces that governs the nature such as Sun, Rain, Moon, Thunder, Lightening, Rivers...They considered them as Gods. They tried to please these natural forces through their offerings and worships.


"The natural helplessness of men is seen in their ignorance of God. The experience of good things did not lead them to the knowledge of Him who is. They were interested in his works, but they did not recognize the author of them.Fire, wind, air, the sphere of the stars, rushing water and the lights in the sky were held as the rulers of the world." ( Wisdom 13: 1-2).

"If, charmed by such beauty, they took them for gods, let them know how far superior is their sovereign.And if they were impressed by their power and activity, let them understand from this how much mightier is he who formed them. For the grandeur and beauty of creatures lead us to ponder on their Author, greater and more magnificent. No doubt these men are not to be blamed severely, for possibly they strayed though they searched for God and desired to find him.They pondered over the created things that surrounded them and were captivated by the sight of such beauty. Even so they are not to be excused, for if they were able to explore the world, why did they not discover first the world's Sovereign?( Wisdom 13: 3-9).

They failed to identify the creator God of these and failed to understand that if these creations are these much powerful, they how much powerful is its creator?.

Later again time passed , human beings started worshiping them as personified God, they created idols in their imaginations to them..They wrote Epics and Myth about these Gods. Here in this stage paganism originated..

" But unhappy, indeed, are those people who give to man-made artifacts the title of gods! Cursed is their hope in dead things, objects worked in gold and silver, likenesses of animals, and even useless stones carved long ago!" (Wisdom 13:10).

"But cursed be the idol and its maker, the idol made by human hands, this corruptible thing that is called a god, and the craftsman for having fashioned it.They are hateful to God, both the godless and the fruit of his godlessness;the maker will be punished together with his work. Therefore the idols of the nations will also be judged. They have come to be the most abominable among the creatures of God. They are a stumbling block to the spirit of man, and the feet of the foolish are caught in the snare.The invention of idols was the origin of licentiousness; when they were invented, life became corrupt.For in the beginning they did not exist and they will not exist forever.Human vanity introduced them into the world, and God has set a term for them.


Some persons rejected these beliefs and from their thoughts and human wisdom they created philosophies and ideologies..In these stage philosophical religions originated (Eg: Buddhism, Jainism, Platonism , Greek Philosophical religions etc)...

While in whole world matters are going on like this, creator God decided to reveal himself to mankind. First he want to broke the distance that mankind created through their sins. He called Abraham from the pagans and made a covenant with him. He made a race (israelies) from him who adores this creator God. He gave his guidance to this race through the prophets he send to them. At the fullness of time he send his son (Jesus) to save the entire mankind and bringing them back to him..Through the death on the cross and Resurrection he broke the bindings of sin from the mankind. He established a new covenant with mankind..Here Christianity originated. As a witness to this creator God and showing this God to the mankind..


You can see in all other religions people searching for God..In Christianity you can see a God coming to mankind for saving them..


__________________
Gods Love is so wonderful.

Last edited by jerry_joseph; Mar 16, '12 at 11:11 pm.
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