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  #1  
Old Feb 17, '12, 1:00 pm
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Darran Darran is offline
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Default The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

I really have to ask this, as more or less every place that offers reading or forum post says something entirely different from the next.

I want to become enrolled in the Scapular. From my understanding, either The Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary OR (with permission from the priest who enrolled) a Rosary has to be said daily to gain full benefit of the sacramental. Isn't that right?

Another issue regards who can actually enroll me in it. I have heard from multiple places that it needs to be either a Carmelite or another priest who they authorise. From others they say any priest. Are there any official documents of this to go by? There aren't any Carmelites within a reasonable distance nearby me.

And lastly, I had also read that there are 3 different scapulars for the 3 orders, and that the smaller (palm sized) scapular doesn't benefit any of the promises that the other two do.

So confusing! Our priest had never heard of an enrollment for the scapular and suggested I take it to the bishop, surely it can't be so misunderstood as to cause this much difficulty.
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  #2  
Old Feb 17, '12, 1:11 pm
in_servitude in_servitude is offline
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

The priest that enrolled me had not heard about it either. But, a local deacon heard the discussion and informed the priest that it was in the "book of blessings." The deacon had enrolled people before, but encouraged me to use the priest.

I'm not certain about all the variations on the rules. I just say the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary every morning. Yet, my understanding is that any brown scapular will do - and once you're enrolled - there's no need to bless future scapulars that you wear.
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  #3  
Old Feb 17, '12, 1:15 pm
MS_SURVEYOR MS_SURVEYOR is offline
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Quote:
Who may invest people with the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel?

According to the Rite for the Blessing and Enrollment in the Scapular of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel, approved by the Holy See in 1996, any priest or deacon has the faculties for blessing the scapular. A person given authority to act in the name of the order may receive people into the confraternity of the scapular. The official ritual provided by the Holy See makes no provision for someone other than a priest or deacon to bless the scapular.
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  #4  
Old Feb 17, '12, 3:12 pm
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Darran Darran is offline
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS_SURVEYOR View Post
I'm not sure which way that swings tbh. Is that saying that any priest/deacon can do it, or any priest/deacon given authority to act in the name of the order?

EDIT: Thanks for the link though! It surely has the more accurate information.
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  #5  
Old Feb 17, '12, 4:09 pm
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Mystrx Mystrx is offline
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darran View Post
I want to become enrolled in the Scapular. From my understanding, either The Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary OR (with permission from the priest who enrolled) a Rosary has to be said daily to gain full benefit of the sacramental. Isn't that right?
Yes that's right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darran View Post
Another issue regards who can actually enroll me in it. I have heard from multiple places that it needs to be either a Carmelite or another priest who they authorise. From others they say any priest. Are there any official documents of this to go by? There aren't any Carmelites within a reasonable distance nearby me.
You can be enrolled in the Brown Scapular Confraternity by any preist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darran View Post
And lastly, I had also read that there are 3 different scapulars for the 3 orders, and that the smaller (palm sized) scapular doesn't benefit any of the promises that the other two do.
They're all the same. What matters is that they are 100% wool cloth and not metal, which some people mistake as acceptable, it is not acceptable to use metal except for rare exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darran View Post
So confusing! Our priest had never heard of an enrollment for the scapular and suggested I take it to the bishop, surely it can't be so misunderstood as to cause this much difficulty.
The first Scapular must be blessed and imposed by a Priest using the formula contained in the Roman ritual for reception into the Confraternity of the Scapular. I'm sure he can find it without you having to bother the bisop about it. Here’s a link to a booklet I got from a Carmelite monastery.

http://www.catholicpamphlets.net/pam...OF%20GRACE.pdf

I'm not an expert so I could be wrong here but this is how I understand it. Good luck.
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  #6  
Old Feb 17, '12, 4:25 pm
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Monica4316 Monica4316 is offline
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darran View Post
I really have to ask this, as more or less every place that offers reading or forum post says something entirely different from the next.

I want to become enrolled in the Scapular. From my understanding, either The Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary OR (with permission from the priest who enrolled) a Rosary has to be said daily to gain full benefit of the sacramental. Isn't that right?
Yes. Normally it's the Little Office, but the priest can give you permission to pray the Rosary instead. (the priest gave me permission).

Quote:

Another issue regards who can actually enroll me in it. I have heard from multiple places that it needs to be either a Carmelite or another priest who they authorise. From others they say any priest. Are there any official documents of this to go by? There aren't any Carmelites within a reasonable distance nearby me.
I wondered about this too. When I was enrolled, the priest was not a Carmelite priest, but he said any priest could do the enrolment

Quote:
.

And lastly, I had also read that there are 3 different scapulars for the 3 orders, and that the smaller (palm sized) scapular doesn't benefit any of the promises that the other two do.

So confusing! Our priest had never heard of an enrollment for the scapular and suggested I take it to the bishop, surely it can't be so misunderstood as to cause this much difficulty.
hmm... the priest who enrolled me was FSSP and he knew about it, knew what I should do to gain graces from the scapular, etc.. (like he knew he needs to give permission for the Rosary, and he also said another condition is living chastely in your state of life). He said future scapulars don't need to be blessed, only the first one, but he blessed the little medals I have attached to mine.

Some priest have not heard of the enrollment, maybe just ask around till you meet the priest who does? or, you can just print out the enrollment and give it to your priest and he could do it.

What do you mean about the 3 different scapulars? the brown scapular has 2 forms: one is the large one for Carmelite religious, the other is the small one for lay people. Both are valid to my knowledge.

God bless
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  #7  
Old Feb 17, '12, 4:45 pm
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS_SURVEYOR View Post
Is this saying that there's a difference between getting the scapular blessed, and being admitted into the confraternity? however I do remember reading somewhere that the Carmelite order gave all priests this authority?

I read that "According to a statement made by the Carmelite Fathers, at the
National Scapular Center, every Priest now has the right to invest the
Faithful in the Brown Scapular, and to substitute the Rosary in lieu
of the "Little Office"." Maybe this could be checked somehow...

I also read that there's the scapular medal, but it should only be worn for a sufficient reason... simply not wanting to wear the cloth scapular, does not count. Particularly it might be referring to living in climates where the cloth might disintegrate.

Also, I read that it's best if the scapular is of real wool, not another type of cloth. The company "Rose Scapular" sells good quality long lasting scapulars, I've ordered from them. They're real wool.

It doesn't matter what picture they have on them, they don't even need a picture, but all the ones I've seen have pictures.
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  #8  
Old Feb 17, '12, 4:58 pm
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Monica4316 Monica4316 is offline
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Does anyone know about the Sabbatine Privilege? I've read contradictory things on it online (some websites were for, some against), but here's a quote that addresses the concerns as well.. it seems that even if the Church wasn't sure about the origin of this revelation, it did still say that we can believe that Mary can help souls in Purgatory especially on Saturday

"Q. What is the Sabbatine Privilege? How does it relate to the Scapular?
A.The "Sabbatine" (Saturday) Privilege is based on a bull said to have been issued March 3, 1322 by Pope John XXII. This privilege is frequently understood to mean that those who wear the Scapular and fulfill two other conditions (which, according to the only copy of the bull in existence, were made by the Blessed Virgin in an apparition to Pope John XXII before he became Pope) will be freed from Purgatory on the first Saturday after death.
However, all that the Church has ever said officially in explanation of this, on several occasions, is that those who fulfill the conditions of the Sabbatine Privilege will be released from Purgatory, through the intercession of Our Lady, soon after death, and especially on Saturday.
At a time when both the origin and nature of the Sabbatine Privilege were under serious question, Pope Paul V in an official statement said: "It is permitted to preach...that the Blessed Virgin will aid the souls of the Brothers and Sisters of the Confraternity of the Blessed Virgin of Mount Carmel after their death by Her continual intercession, by Her suffrages and merits and by Her special protection, especially on the day of Saturday which is the day especially dedicated by the Church to the same Blessed Virgin Mary."

Q. What are the conditions for the Sabbatine Privilege?
A. The conditions for the Sabbatine Privilege are: 1. Wear the Brown Scapular faithfully; 2. Observe chastity according to one's state in life (married/single): 3. Pray five decades of the Rosary, daily, when substitution of the daily Rosary has been granted in place of the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary. (If one cannot read, in place of reciting the Office, one must abstain from meat on Wednesdays and Saturdays, except Christmas; In case of inconvenience, however, both the Office and the abstinence can be substituted by some other act of piety named by a Priest with the proper faculty.)"
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Last edited by Monica4316; Feb 17, '12 at 5:14 pm.
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  #9  
Old Feb 17, '12, 5:21 pm
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Here's more about the Sabbatine Privilege, the history seems so complicated... I just leave it to the Church I guess I don't really understand what consensus the Church eventually came to. One website said that the Church accepted the idea of Mary coming to help souls in Purgatory but didn't accept the specific revelation. But other websites say it differently, including this one below. I'm not arguing anything, just leaving it to the Church. If the Church accepted it, I'd be happy for it to be true

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13289b.htm
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  #10  
Old Feb 17, '12, 5:48 pm
MS_SURVEYOR MS_SURVEYOR is offline
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica4316 View Post
Here's more about the Sabbatine Privilege, the history seems so complicated... I just leave it to the Church I guess

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13289b.htm
I'm going to let Mary guide me through this. All I know is before the Brown Scapular I was a sinning fool headed for HELL! Satan was having a field day with me. Now, after being invested to the Brown Scapular, I pray everyday, never miss mass, and my life has more joy than none, with no thoughts about sinning.

Just me.

ms
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  #11  
Old Feb 18, '12, 4:34 am
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Darran Darran is offline
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica4316
Is this saying that there's a difference between getting the scapular blessed, and being admitted into the confraternity? however I do remember reading somewhere that the Carmelite order gave all priests this authority?
Yea it almost seems as though it should be read in reverse as opposed to the right way around.

I would feel safe enough to bring it to a priest if it was absolutely certain (and I'm sure it would be legitimate anyway even if it wasn't allowed, due to all the confusion), but I'm thinking now that I might just take a trip with the satnav and find some of the real mcoy Carmelites to be perfectly sure. I suppose afterall, it's worth it for Our Lady.

Thanks very much for the advice and links, I'll let you know how I get on!
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  #12  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:39 am
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

I've just been enrolled in the Scapular today! I ended up emailing the Carmelite sisters in Co. Down as well as the ones from freebrownscapular.com (because they were one that said that a priest needed to be authorized) and they both told me that any priest could do it.

It turns out, that the "authorized" refers to the priest being legit, and not in the sense that I thought it was - I thought that the priest needed to be authorized by the Carmelite order. The sisters kindly sent me a leaflet with some info + the short form of the enrollment, I took it to my local priest and there we go!

Cheers for the help guys!
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  #13  
Old Feb 25, '12, 8:17 am
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Default Re: The Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt Carmel

Just by the way (and sorry for the tripple post). The Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary is the praying/singing of this, isn't it?

http://www.medjugorje.org/lofficep.htm
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