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  #46  
Old Feb 23, '12, 3:55 pm
sicutincensum sicutincensum is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane View Post
She will know that she can feel safe with you, because you have become a weapon even if you don't carry a gun.

I want to take the course but I am chicken so far. (I am female)
Quoting Blessed JPII, "Be not afraid"!
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Dirigatur oratio mea sicut incensum in conspectu tuo, Domine.
  #47  
Old Feb 23, '12, 4:36 pm
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by adoglover1956 View Post
No problem with civilized disagreement!
Of course not.

But if you disagree with the Ecclesia Dei commission's published opinion, iwill you also disagree with Fr Z? He is considered Traditional by some. I do not believe that many who goto the Society would consider him Traditional. I assume his opinion on the Ecclesia Dei statemrnt would be acceptable to many on this forum.

https://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/10/quae...ss-obligation/
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If your faith, your doctrine and your spirituality are founded on the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, you abide in truth. You cannot be mistaken when you have established your faith on the holy sacrifice of the Mass. +Archbishop Lefebvre
  #48  
Old Feb 23, '12, 4:42 pm
adoglover1956 adoglover1956 is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by maurin View Post
Of course not.

But if you disagree with the Ecclesia Dei commission's published opinion, iwill you also disagree with Fr Z? He is considered Traditional by some. I do not believe that many who goto the Society would consider him Traditional. I assume his opinion on the Ecclesia Dei statemrnt would be acceptable to many on this forum.

https://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/10/quae...ss-obligation/
I tried accessing that page...but it seems to be unavailable.
  #49  
Old Feb 23, '12, 4:49 pm
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by adoglover1956 View Post
I tried accessing that page...but it seems to be unavailable.
I typed into google: sspx mass fulfills Sunday obligation.

The first link is to a Catholic Family News article which is pro SSPX. The next three are quaeritur..." linking to Fr Z's blog, and the article I tried to cite.

Sorry for the confusion!
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If your faith, your doctrine and your spirituality are founded on the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, you abide in truth. You cannot be mistaken when you have established your faith on the holy sacrifice of the Mass. +Archbishop Lefebvre
  #50  
Old Feb 24, '12, 5:29 pm
piouswoman piouswoman is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by maurin View Post
I typed into google: sspx mass fulfills Sunday obligation.

The first link is to a Catholic Family News article which is pro SSPX. The next three are quaeritur..." linking to Fr Z's blog, and the article I tried to cite.

Sorry for the confusion!
I left the SSPX about four months ago also. I spent six and half years there. I am not sure that the SSPX does fulfill the Sunday obligation, but that is not really the point, they do advise the faithful NOT to go to the Novus Ordo, that the Novus Ordo is a bad mass. Thinking logically, they have no right or ability to say these things. If fulfilling one's Sunday obligation involves being exposed to being told the NO mass is bad, and one shouldn't attend masses of the Catholic church, then in my opinion, one should not go to the SSPX.
  #51  
Old Feb 24, '12, 6:45 pm
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by piouswoman View Post
I left the SSPX about four months ago also. I spent six and half years there. I am not sure that the SSPX does fulfill the Sunday obligation, but that is not really the point, they do advise the faithful NOT to go to the Novus Ordo, that the Novus Ordo is a bad mass. Thinking logically, they have no right or ability to say these things. If fulfilling one's Sunday obligation involves being exposed to being told the NO mass is bad, and one shouldn't attend masses of the Catholic church, then in my opinion, one should not go to the SSPX.
Of course you are welcome to believe that the Society Mass does not fulfill the Sunday obligation, but those who speak for the Pope disagree. It most certainly does, with caveats, of course.

Thinking logically, they most certainly do have the right to express the point of view that the deficiencies of the NO Mass are dangerous to the faith of the Faithful. As Bishop of Campos in Brazil, Msgr Castro de Mayer retained the Mass of all time in his Diocese up until his retiremenr, and he refused the NO Mass. The NO Mass was offered by only a couple of the Priests in his Diocese, with the Bishop's blessing.

Your opinion is certainly valid, and is valuable. But the opinion of the Ecclesia Dei Commission does carry more weight. One is able to fulfill one's obligation at the Society Masses, provided one does not do so with the intention of separating onesself from His Holiness, and of course the Ecclesia Dei Commission does not recommend attendance. But they have made clear that one does fulfill one's obligation, and if one is so moved, to contribute modestly to tyhe collection.
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If your faith, your doctrine and your spirituality are founded on the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, you abide in truth. You cannot be mistaken when you have established your faith on the holy sacrifice of the Mass. +Archbishop Lefebvre
  #52  
Old Feb 24, '12, 7:57 pm
piouswoman piouswoman is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by maurin View Post
Thinking logically, they most certainly do have the right to express the point of view that the deficiencies of the NO Mass are dangerous to the faith of the Faithful.
Also, I am sorry, but they (SSPX) haven't the "right" to speak of deficiencies in the NO....nothing gives them the right to express a point of view contrary to the pope and the teachings of the Catholic church, and still call themselves Catholic. They have no jurisdiction, they do not answer to the pope...they have no Catholic rights.
  #53  
Old Feb 25, '12, 4:35 am
PhilOSophia PhilOSophia is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Well, is one allowed to critique a Mass? I think we are. One can favour the 1962 or 1920 typical edition.

You're not allowed to compare and contrast on here, as per the terms of this forum, but I think a Catholic can say: "I don't like the N.O. mass, and here is why...".

To cut to the chase:

The N.O. mass could be abrogated tomorrow. It's is not like a book of the New testament, or something. I think, an old, now deceased, pal of mine even asked the current Pope, through an intermediary, to bring back the 1920's mass.

Even the manner of the making of this mass invites critique. If Cardingal Bugnini and/or a committee can fabricate one in a few years, and local priests can add fashionable things to it, then why can't I propose changes?

One thing is working against another here: They want the same veneration as was given to the old rite BUT they also want the leeway to make swingeing changes very rapidly AND make a sacred rite more 'people-friendly'.

Result: Contradiction. Confusion. Discord.

It's inevitable. And prating about obedience when the faithful are confused and scandalised and worse, bored by progressive clergy making their own, disobedient changes to discipline and even doctrine ....

It's a recipe for a stroke if you don't see the dog chawing on its own tail, to coin a phrase

Just sit tight, do your devotions and go to the most solemn Mass you can find. If the local priest is making the Protestant Mistake and there's no more rigourous Mass to be had, go to the SSPX. If the priest there constantly bangs on about how bad the wider church is, move on.
  #54  
Old Feb 25, '12, 5:04 am
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by piouswoman View Post
Also, I am sorry, but they (SSPX) haven't the "right" to speak of deficiencies in the NO....nothing gives them the right to express a point of view contrary to the pope and the teachings of the Catholic church, and still call themselves Catholic. They have no jurisdiction, they do not answer to the pope...they have no Catholic rights.
alas, I too am sorry, but yes, at this moment in time, they do. What gives them that right is more than 1500 years of usus antiquor. Tradition.

And unless the or a Pope imposes silemce on the Society, the Society will comtimue to have the "right" to keep the Traditional Faith from fading into memory, or worse, into oblivion. After all, they kept the Mass of all Time from a similar fate, and the Ecclesia Dei Societies have that Mass today thamks to the SSPX.

One can only wonder what more the ED societies will have in the future grâce à la Society and her perseverence.
__________________
If your faith, your doctrine and your spirituality are founded on the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, you abide in truth. You cannot be mistaken when you have established your faith on the holy sacrifice of the Mass. +Archbishop Lefebvre
  #55  
Old Feb 25, '12, 5:23 am
Tradycja Tradycja is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by sicutincensum View Post
Quoting Blessed JPII, "Be not afraid"!
Um....you mean...to quote Our Lord......Matthew 14:27
  #56  
Old Feb 25, '12, 5:28 am
Tradycja Tradycja is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by sicutincensum View Post
[

Now, on the contrary, I feel quite alone! I don't feel confortable in any parish in my region (there is not a single EF, not even a latin OF), and the parish where I feel better (which has a reverent OF) is not my home parish, and although I spend much of my time there, I don't have a close relation with the priests nor with any of the parish staff. Parishes look so closed (even my home parish does)!
As much as many posters on this forum are in denial about it, the Church is in crisis. As the younger generation we feel it more. Really the only way nowadays is online Catholic dating sites and facebook. Unless you live in some super-Orthodox area, the only way to find a Catholic girl nowadays is to do a long distance relationship. It's also extremely hard to meet anyone at church let alone a woman. Let's face it Catholics are generally unfriendly. Sign up for CatholicMatch.com or Traditional Catholic singles. Another way is to search people on Facebook that are members of various traditional Catholic facebook groups and then send a message with a friend request.
  #57  
Old Feb 25, '12, 8:28 am
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Allegra Allegra is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

If your home parish has an opportunity for a CHRP or ACTS retreat, I recommend that you take it. It will really help you build a bond in your parish. As far as finding a mate, I would not close yourself off to other Catholic girls. Just because they currently don't attend an EF Mass doesn't mean they wouldn't be happy to if they have someone handsome to take them. If my fiance felt strongly about attending the EF Mass, I wouldn't care, providing the community was in full communion with the Church.
  #58  
Old Feb 25, '12, 9:24 am
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Filii Dei Filii Dei is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by sicutincensum View Post
[Dear Moderators: I write this in the Traditional Catholic section of the forum because it largely relates to feelings of someone who left the SSPX, and seeking advice of other fellow traditional Catholics, who are more likely to have experienced simillar situations. However, if you believe this should be in the Family Life or Prayer Intentions forums, feel free to move it,]

I remember listening to an interview of a right-wing deputy of my country, who had been a high-rank communist, where she revealed some details of her exit of the communist party milieu. She related how she suddenly found herself without friends and, she said smilling, with no coffee shop to go to (as all her former "friends" were communist and disproved of her change).

Please do not assume I'm comparing the SSPX, which has plenty of good things, with the demoniacal communist ideology, because I'm not. However, the details of that interview came frequently to mind after I walked away from the SSPX. After more than two years of total commitment to the "cause", I found myself pretty much without friends (with the exception of a long-date friend), and, most of all, feeling tremendously isolated. After leaving my gilfriend due to other issues (as I described some months ago here on CAF), this feeling of loneliness became even more pressuring, and, I believe, is leading me towards a depression.

Yes, I know, perhaps the feeling should be the opposite, as I shifted from a small group to an huge reality: the Church! However, I believe those of you who have been SSPXers can relate to this: the SSPX is a family, and, specially if you are very commited to it (I did Chartres-Paris 2 times, I went to Écône, etc.), and thus you feel very integrated.

Now, on the contrary, I feel quite alone! I don't feel confortable in any parish in my region (there is not a single EF, not even a latin OF), and the parish where I feel better (which has a reverent OF) is not my home parish, and although I spend much of my time there, I don't have a close relation with the priests nor with any of the parish staff. Parishes look so closed (even my home parish does)!

Also, I've been being tempted (yes, I know it's a temptation, even my parents, who are'nt practicing Catholics have told me it's a stupid temptation) into thinking that perhaps I'll never find a girl that I could marry, because in my country/region traditional/conservative catholicism is pretty much non-existing. The only "conservative" group that is active here is Opus Dei, and I don't feel confortable with their spirituality (Opus Dei is great, but it's just not for me).

Once again, perhaps former SSPXers can relate to this: when you're a young SSPXer, you are within a circle of young people commited to the Church (in their way), and even if you don't find a girl within your chapel, you'll sure you'll find one at Post Falls, St. Mary's or in France.

Up to now this has been a huge rant, but my purpose is to see if anyone relates to these feelings and/or has experienced the same, or if you can give any encouragement.

After leaving the SSPX, I immediately joined the Confraternity of Saint Peter (even if the nearest FSSP chapel is some 600 miles away), so I could feel I belonged somewhere (even if only spiritually). I'm planning to start practising a martial art (Krag Maga) and to attend some FSSP mixed retreats in the future (perhaps a good way to find a prospective spouse). Do you have any further suggestion?

Of course, I would be very grateful if you pray an Hail Mary for me. This whole situation is not being easy to overcome. However, I hope this doesnt' sound like I regreat having left the SSPX. Nothing is better than to feel and to be in full communion with the Vicar of Christ. Ubi Petro, ibi Ecclesia.
Your witness has certainly been an inspiring one. I pray that Bishop Fellay musters the support he needs from the Society and the confidence of the Holy Father to return to canonical regularity. The Society is certainly not perfect, not least among their uncharitable allegations against the Church as you have pointed out, but there are many aspects of their spirit that are needed in the Church today. The crisis we face in our liturgy needs a good dose of Tradition, and the return of the SSPX will be a much-needed shot in the arm for the traditionalist movement.

As the past few pages have shown, the traditionalist movement needs to stop fighting amongst themselves and unite toward restoring the beauty of the liturgy in the Church as a whole, and not just for the benefit of ourselves. In order for that to happen, we should pray for charity and humility in our dealings with each other, so that we may prevail over those who - through unfortunate ignorance or sheer self-conceit - would destroy our proud liturgical tradition.

I also pray for you, that you may find a community that accepts and encourages your devotion to tradition, and even inspire your own parish to heights of greater reverence for the Mass.



Ave Maria, gratia plena,
Dominus tecum.
Benedicta tu in mulieribus
et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Jesus.
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus
nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
  #59  
Old Feb 25, '12, 12:10 pm
jwinch2 jwinch2 is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by Filii Dei View Post
The Society is certainly not perfect, not least among their uncharitable allegations against the Church as you have pointed out, but there are many aspects of their spirit that are needed in the Church today. The crisis we face in our liturgy needs a good dose of Tradition, and the return of the SSPX will be a much-needed shot in the arm for the traditionalist movement.
We have many groups now working towards exactly that and it seems as if more of them are cropping up all the time (FSSP, ICKSP, CRNJ, CRSJC, etc.). While I certainly hope for the SSPX to return to the fold, I cannot help but believe that things are already moving towards a restoration of traditional liturgy.

Thoughts?

Please don't get me wrong. I absolutely want to see a normalization of things between SSPX and the Holy See.


Peace,
  #60  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:47 pm
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by jwinch2 View Post
We have many groups now working towards exactly that and it seems as if more of them are cropping up all the time (FSSP, ICKSP, CRNJ, CRSJC, etc.). While I certainly hope for the SSPX to return to the fold, I cannot help but believe that things are already moving towards a restoration of traditional liturgy.

Thoughts?

Please don't get me wrong. I absolutely want to see a normalization of things between SSPX and the Holy See.


Peace,
I isn't merely resoration of the Mass that is at issue, jwinch. If that were the case, the issues were resolved with His Holiness's mou proprio of 2009, was it?

No, tthe issues revolve around the Faith the Traditional Mass trumpets forth. These issues are all about doctrine.

We all await his Holiness's response to the Doctrinal Talks, which is expected to come this summer.
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If your faith, your doctrine and your spirituality are founded on the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, you abide in truth. You cannot be mistaken when you have established your faith on the holy sacrifice of the Mass. +Archbishop Lefebvre
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