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  #1  
Old Mar 2, '12, 2:17 pm
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SeanF1989 SeanF1989 is offline
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Default A society without values

I heard this quote somewhere on the internet.

If you take away a society's values you are left with a cruel, chaotic and vengeful society, such a society will eventually occupy it's time with pleasure seeking hedonism, material acquisition and violence oriented pastimes.

What do you think?
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  #2  
Old Mar 2, '12, 3:18 pm
cerad2 cerad2 is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

I think you should avoid believing everything hear on the internet.
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  #3  
Old Mar 2, '12, 4:33 pm
Rence Rence is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF1989 View Post
I heard this quote somewhere on the internet.

If you take away a society's values you are left with a cruel, chaotic and vengeful society, such a society will eventually occupy it's time with pleasure seeking hedonism, material acquisition and violence oriented pastimes.

What do you think?
I think that anyone can say that from the perspective of their *own* values, but if they do not at least acknowledge that another person has values too, but that they are different than their own, that the world will be a very chaotic, cruel and vengeful place to them.

I also think life is what you make of it, and that you will get back to you want you put out. So if you put out negativity, negativity will come back to you. And if you put out positivity, positivity will come back to you. And if you are hopeful, even if you have to fake it for a while knowing that it will instill hope in others, that it will come back to you. That's what I think
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  #4  
Old Mar 2, '12, 4:50 pm
KSB KSB is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

I think we're kind of there right now. The only good values are God's values, and society is getting farther and farther away from His values right now. Hopefully, that'll change.
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  #5  
Old Mar 2, '12, 5:00 pm
kch86 kch86 is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF1989 View Post
I heard this quote somewhere on the internet.

If you take away a society's values you are left with a cruel, chaotic and vengeful society, such a society will eventually occupy it's time with pleasure seeking hedonism, material acquisition and violence oriented pastimes.

What do you think?
Sounds like our society today!

It's cruel (to the unborn), chaotic and purposeless, and occupies its time with hedonism and material acquisition. That much is true.

I don't quite think we've quite got the vengeful and violence-oriented pastimes bits yet. Sure, we have aspects of those things, but not in a major way I don't think.
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  #6  
Old Mar 2, '12, 5:15 pm
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JohnnyK JohnnyK is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

sounds like where we are and where we're headin
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  #7  
Old Mar 2, '12, 5:24 pm
toosan1967 toosan1967 is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

It seems to me that this statement is an overgeneralization. 'Society' is a term we (particularly the sociologists among us) invented to convince ourselves that we as individuals belong to something more easily dealt with statistically than the 'human race' in its broadest sense. That way we can compare ourselves, that is 'our society' (which might be a relatively tiny group indeed), to those 'other societies' and prove to ourselves that we are less barbaric than they for such and such reasons as we can clearly demonstrate statistically. Indeed, if we manipulate the statistics properly we can probably prove that those other folks are truly egregious barbarians whereas 'our society' is positively 'civilized' by comparison.
No. 'Society' is made up of individuals; and within any 'society' one will find individuals who are loving, considerate, compassionate, forgiving, and gererous; that is, holy in their dealings with other human beings, as well as those who are the exact opposite to a greater or lesser degree. We can only hope (and pray: and vote if we have that privilege!) that the human race as a whole consists of a majority of the former, rather than the later types; and that those later types don't manage in the long run to have the means (that is, the money) and the power to completely subjugate the former. May God Bless Us All!
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  #8  
Old Mar 2, '12, 6:03 pm
kch86 kch86 is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

Quote:
Originally Posted by toosan1967 View Post
It seems to me that this statement is an overgeneralization. 'Society' is a term we (particularly the sociologists among us) invented to convince ourselves that we as individuals belong to something more easily dealt with statistically than the 'human race' in its broadest sense. That way we can compare ourselves, that is 'our society' (which might be a relatively tiny group indeed), to those 'other societies' and prove to ourselves that we are less barbaric than they for such and such reasons as we can clearly demonstrate statistically. Indeed, if we manipulate the statistics properly we can probably prove that those other folks are truly egregious barbarians whereas 'our society' is positively 'civilized' by comparison.
No. 'Society' is made up of individuals; and within any 'society' one will find individuals who are loving, considerate, compassionate, forgiving, and gererous; that is, holy in their dealings with other human beings, as well as those who are the exact opposite to a greater or lesser degree. We can only hope (and pray: and vote if we have that privilege!) that the human race as a whole consists of a majority of the former, rather than the later types; and that those later types don't manage in the long run to have the means (that is, the money) and the power to completely subjugate the former. May God Bless Us All!
Perhaps you are right in a way. We've become such highly atomised units and to such an extent that perhaps in a way there really does no longer exist a society.

But a society as a concept is more than just a collection of individuals. Indeed, it is made up of individuals, but to deny that they aren't to a degree interrelated to form a society is to embrace quite a radical form of individualism.

And it may be this radical form of individualism that has come to dominate in the Western mindset and is perhaps one of the reasons why we no longer share a common sense of purpose. Instead we pursue to such a great extent the acquisition of material wealth merely for the satisfaction of our individual desires.

Our Catholic faith is neither radically individualistic, nor is it opposed to some degree of individualism. Unlike Margaret Thatcher, it does not proclaim, "There is no such thing as society." At the same time, it doesn't suffer from the collectivism of socialism. It recognises the value of each individual, but it also affirms him as being interdependent with other individuals and a part of various societies - that of the family, the town community, the nation and the state, with which he may co-operate and share a common purpose.

And our society, or the societies, if we can call them that, in the Western world are indeed in a sorry state. Our common values today are relativism and our purpose is little more than the accumulation of wealth for the sake of hedonism. We've become obsessed with trivial inanity and no longer have a vision for the future. There is little new we're creating other than new forms of entertainment.

That said, the world has its ups and downs, so there's no reason not to be optimistic about the future.
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  #9  
Old Mar 3, '12, 1:55 pm
toosan1967 toosan1967 is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

Quote:
Originally Posted by kch86 View Post
Perhaps you are right in a way. We've become such highly atomised units and to such an extent that perhaps in a way there really does no longer exist a society.

But a society as a concept is more than just a collection of individuals. Indeed, it is made up of individuals, but to deny that they aren't to a degree interrelated to form a society is to embrace quite a radical form of individualism.

And it may be this radical form of individualism that has come to dominate in the Western mindset and is perhaps one of the reasons why we no longer share a common sense of purpose. Instead we pursue to such a great extent the acquisition of material wealth merely for the satisfaction of our individual desires.

Our Catholic faith is neither radically individualistic, nor is it opposed to some degree of individualism. Unlike Margaret Thatcher, it does not proclaim, "There is no such thing as society." At the same time, it doesn't suffer from the collectivism of socialism. It recognises the value of each individual, but it also affirms him as being interdependent with other individuals and a part of various societies - that of the family, the town community, the nation and the state, with which he may co-operate and share a common purpose.

And our society, or the societies, if we can call them that, in the Western world are indeed in a sorry state. Our common values today are relativism and our purpose is little more than the accumulation of wealth for the sake of hedonism. We've become obsessed with trivial inanity and no longer have a vision for the future. There is little new we're creating other than new forms of entertainment.

That said, the world has its ups and downs, so there's no reason not to be optimistic about the future.
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  #10  
Old Mar 3, '12, 2:46 pm
toosan1967 toosan1967 is offline
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Default Re: A society without values

I like your thoughtful response! Perhaps I was not quite clear in making the point that was dominating my thoughts as I responded to the original post. That is, that because we (as groups and nations) are so inclined to think of ourselves as a 'society' apart from all of our brothers and sisters under God, we tend to forget, or at least conveniently overlook the fact that it is the human race to which we belong: that we are all God's children and that, as you pointed out, 'society' is nothing more than a concept that, I submit, we use more often than not, to abuse or belittle other members of our family because they don't at least appreciate, and finally accept, our 'society's' attitudes, values, and way of life. Similar to Rence's thoughts on the matter.
Now SeanF's original post asked basically "what do you think of the idea that a 'society' is doomed to proceed from innocuousness to barbarism as it looses it's 'values'" - as if that were inevitable. I guess my simplest response must be that, like you, I don't think our situation as the human family is as hopeless as that. I guess I have some degree of faith that goodness will triumph over evil - though as you say, it may be quite a roller-coaster ride for us. I suspect that a 'society' or civilization is more likely to fail and disappear because of economic and/or environmental reasons rather than because of 'value' related reasons. May God Bless Us All.
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