American Catholics and the Second Amendment?

CRUE CAB · #1 Apr 9, '12, 8:11 am

I own different guns for home defence, some for just target shooting and some just because.
What is the general consensus among Catholics as far as owning and using firearms.
To clarify, I have no children in the home but still all guns are locked in safes at all times.
Except what I carry or keep in the car. I dont carry often and the car is hardly ever out of my sight, even at work.

KScoyote · #2 Apr 9, '12, 8:59 am

Luke 22:35-38

This passage seems to be as repulsive to pacifist as John 6:25-58 is to the protestants.

Sure sounds like Jesus is encouraging self defense.

Pfaffenhoffen · #3 Apr 9, '12, 9:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRUE CAB

I own different guns for home defence, some for just target shooting and some just because.
What is the general consensus among Catholics as far as owning and using firearms.
To clarify, I have no children in the home but still all guns are locked in safes at all times.
Except what I carry or keep in the car. I dont carry often and the car is hardly ever out of my sight, even at work.

I hate the 2nd amendment and I've had a fair share of arguments here and in Protestant Forums about that. I think the 2nd amendment should be struck down.

Nevertheless, you seem to be a careful arm keeper.

But, what is the arm in the car for? In trouble, will you reach on time ? Will it give safety to you or death to someone else?

Corki · #4 Apr 9, '12, 9:43 am

The Catholic position is to not break the law in your ownership or use of the guns. That's it.

twopekinguys · #5 Apr 9, '12, 9:48 am

Having been a gun owner, hunter, and collector, for many years, I see no problem as long as you act responsibly, and within the law.

I will use one to defend myself if necessary. Any questions about reaction time will be answered then....

CRUE CAB · #6 Apr 9, '12, 9:59 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pfaffenhoffen

I hate the 2nd amendment and I've had a fair share of arguments here and in Protestant Forums about that. I think the 2nd amendment should be struck down.

Nevertheless, you seem to be a careful arm keeper.

But, what is the arm in the car for? In trouble, will you reach on time ? Will it give safety to you or death to someone else?

What is to hate about the Second Amendment? Or the first or the fourth?
We have the Bill of Rights for a reason, it separates us from the rest of the world.
And you cant "strike down" an amendment of the constitution without congress and the supreme courts blessing.
If it were that easy it would have been gone along time ago.
How long do you think we would have the "rest" of the constitution if the second was gone?
My gun in my car is just for that, trouble. It does give me a measure of safety and yes Iam prepared to bring death to someone looking to harm me or my family in any way.
Iam sure there alot of pacifists that would rather die or allow thier family to die before they raised a hand in violence, but the world is a violent place.
All you have to do is read a newspaper or watch the news or talk to a cop.
No Iam not paranoid either and am not waiting on the zombie apocolyps.
But I would rather be able to bring to bear all the firepower needed to protect myself and my family if needed. Better to have it when or if needed than to not have it.
Do bad people get guns and use them for all the wrong purposes? Yes, as they do cars.
Do kids get them and kill or hurt themselves or others? Yes, thats why parents need to be parents.

Garyjohn2 · #7 Apr 9, '12, 10:01 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KScoyote

Luke 22:35-38

This passage seems to be as repulsive to pacifist as John 6:25-58 is to the protestants.

Sure sounds like Jesus is encouraging self defense.

It's my understanding that verse in Luke is to fulfill a prophecy, that the messiah will be counted among robbers and thieves. The same word that is translated "swords" can also be translated "knives". What is a robber or thief without a weapon? That's why only 2 is "enough."

Jesus' view on self defense may be more accurately portrayed when Peter actually uses one of those swords trying to defend Christ by force when he is arrested, cutting off a mans ear. Jesus stops them and heals the ear.

That being said, I don't think there is anything against owning a gun or defending your family/property in the Bible, if it is done justly.

**Dale_M** · #8 Apr 9, '12, 11:01 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRUE CAB

And you cant "strike down" an amendment of the constitution without congress and the supreme courts blessing.

This is a minor quibble, but I don't think the US Supreme Court would need to be involved. The 18th Amendment (Prohibition) was repealed by the 21st Amendment, and as far as I know the Supreme Court's approval wasn't required.

As for the larger issue of this thread, Corki has already pointed out the Church's position. As for getting a sense of what most US Catholics feel about gun ownership and possession, I am not sure that it is possible to get an accurate assessment simply from asking in an online forum. There are too many self-selection biases.

CRUE CAB · #9 Apr 9, '12, 11:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale_M

This is a minor quibble, but I don't think the US Supreme Court would need to be involved. The 18th Amendment (Prohibition) was repealed by the 21st Amendment, and as far as I know the Supreme Court's approval wasn't required.

As for the larger issue of this thread, Corki has already pointed out the Church's position. As for getting a sense of what most US Catholics feel about gun ownership and possession, I am not sure that it is possible to get an accurate assessment simply from asking in an online forum. There are too many self-selection biases.

The supreme court may not write the laws, but will be interpreting lower courts rulings that make thier way up to them.
Gun laws in various forms have had SC backing or been sent back for review or turned away all together.
ie Heller vs District of Columbia.

sw85 · #10 Apr 9, '12, 12:11 pm

Catechism explicitly allows even lethal force in self-defense if necessary. In general, if you are forced to use a firearm in self-defense, you should do so without the intention to kill but only to protect yourself or family. It also means you should not use excessive force. Do not injure someone unless you have to, and do not kill them when injuring them probably would've sufficed. For instance, Texas law would allow me to chase down a fleeing criminal and shoot him in the back for attempting to steal my wife's purse (even if he failed). This may accord with the law but it is still probably the sin of murder.

As far as hunting, it should be done with the greatest respect for the animal possible. Do not torture it and do not allow it to suffer needlessly. Try not to waste anything that comes out of it.

garn9173 · #11 Apr 9, '12, 12:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sw85

As far as hunting, it should be done with the greatest respect for the animal possible. Do not torture it and do not allow it to suffer needlessly. Try not to waste anything that comes out of it.

Those who do are few and far in between and unfortanely when it happens, give all hunters a bad name

Quote:

Originally Posted by twopekinguys

Having been a gun owner, hunter, and collector, for many years, I see no problem as long as you act responsibly, and within the law.

I will use one to defend myself if necessary. Any questions about reaction time will be answered then....

A G · #12 Apr 9, '12, 12:43 pm

Yes, you may own and use firearms for self defense. The Catechism allows for self-defense, and so does scripture.

"If a thief be found breaking open a house or undermining it, and be wounded so as to die: he that slew him shall not be guilty of blood. But if he did this when the sun is risen, he hath committed murder, and he shall die. If he have not wherewith to make restitution for the theft, he shall be sold." Exodus 22:2-3

"But they said: Nothing. Then said he unto them: But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a scrip; and he that hath not, let him sell his coat, and buy a sword." Luke 22:36

The sword is not to be used for revenge, only for self defense and protection. You can't live by the sword, as criminals do for example.

"Then Jesus saith to him: Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot ask my Father, and he will give me presently more than twelve legions of angels? How then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that so it must be done?" Matthew 26:52-54

While Christ told Peter to "put your sword in its place" He clearly did not say get rid of it. Jesus did not contradict Himself from a few hours earlier in Luke 22:36.

Owning firearms for protection and self defense for yourself and your family is allowed.

**Dale_M** · #13 Apr 9, '12, 12:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRUE CAB

The supreme court may not write the laws, but will be interpreting lower courts rulings that make thier way up to them.
Gun laws in various forms have had SC backing or been sent back for review or turned away all together.
ie Heller vs District of Columbia.

Well, yes. But those rulings were based on the Second Amendment.

My point was that any amendment to the US Constitution (including the Second Amendment) could be repealed by another constitutional amendment, without requiring Supreme Court approval.

Corki · #14 Apr 9, '12, 1:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale_M

Well, yes. But those rulings were based on the Second Amendment.

My point was that any amendment to the US Constitution (including the Second Amendment) could be repealed by another constitutional amendment, without requiring Supreme Court approval.

I could only see the SC getting involved if there was a legal challenge involving the ratification process.

donsnow · #15 Apr 9, '12, 4:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRUE CAB

I own different guns for home defence, some for just target shooting and some just because.
What is the general consensus among Catholics as far as owning and using firearms.
To clarify, I have no children in the home but still all guns are locked in safes at all times.
Except what I carry or keep in the car. I dont carry often and the car is hardly ever out of my sight, even at work.

Good evening, CRUE CAB,

I think you're just exercising your God given and Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. I've owned firearms and enjoyed going to the indoor range to shoot at targets to keep my proficiency up. I would have loved to go hunting, but had no hunting friends and didn't want to go alone.

People own more than one vehicle so why not more than one gun? And, more people are killed in auto accidents than in gun accidents. And, just for the record, both a gun and a car are a lethal weapon. So, until auto operation laws become as restricted and rinkydink as gun use laws, I think to differentiate between the danger of the two is either hypocritical or hysterical. The ideal, I think, would be for gun laws to become as liberal as auto laws.

In my youth, there were few gun laws and fewer drugs than now, and much fewer accidental gun deaths because children were taught how not to handle guns. Nowadays, there are more gun laws and there are drug laws, but less gun usage and much, much more drug usage. More gun laws are not the solution. Gun education on how to use, etc a gun would be a good solution.

God loves you,
Don