Altar Girls in Cassock/Surplice

[Baelor]

Originally Posted by vz71

Of course it is open to interpretation by the individuals, but the consensus was that the clothing choice indicated more that this person was simply helping as opposed to a person that may be discerning a vocation.

I was not aware that there a difference was called for by the Church.

[vz71]

It isn't.

But is it a wise idea to provide the experience for a vocation that cannot be fulfilled?

[Baelor]

Originally Posted by vz71

It isn't.

But is it a wise idea to provide the experience for a vocation that cannot be fulfilled?

I do not understand. Please explain to me how a five-year-old altar server now has the "experience" necessary for priesthood.

More importantly, your post is flawed at the fundamental level: girls have no vocation to the priesthood, and therefore cannot have that vocation unfulfilled.

[YoungCanRCMale]

Originally Posted by EcceAgnusDei

I recently saw at an OF mass an altar girl wearing a cassock and surplice. While I am pleased that this priest has decided to have his servers wear the traditional vestments (there was a boy wearing them, too), there was something even more disturbing about altar girls when they are wearing clerical vestments.

Has anyone else seen this? Is this a step forward or back? I feel like it is a step in the wrong direction as it further blurs the gender distinction in the liturgy, it seems to legitimate altar girls even more, and finally it meshes traditional and modern practices in a way that seems denigrating to the traditional.

What do you think?

+ PAX

Back when I altar served Novus Ordo in High school, and our parish was more traditional than it is now, all servers male or female used to wear a red cassock and white surplice upon receiving confirmation and beyond. Now they wear a ****** white alb with no cincture to tie it! Seriously they are ugly!

As for your questions, to me it's a step forward considering how hideous those white albs, cinctured or not look on anybody, man or woman, but especially women because most albs are NOT shaped for a woman's upper torso, if you know what I mean. At least on most men, it does not look funny.

Also poster, I wonder what your Catholic-Anglican rite allies would think. It seems many of those parishes use the Surplice and Cassock. Though perhaps someone who is part of the new ordinate can comment on whether they have surplice and cassock AND female servers as part of the liturgy.

[ubcgirl]

Are there no cases when an altar girl is acceptable?

I was an altar girl - in my very small town, with the very small Catholic community, there were only a couple of families who were devout Catholics, mine and another family. We were the ones who were always there (and never late!) The one family had three boys, one of which was too young, and they were all altar servers, as was I. Obviously before/after our generation as young children, there were mostly boys, but I was not the only female altar server in that time period. There just weren't enough children to go around, and even as a little girl, I loved helping the priest, though I never held any false belief that I would ever be able to be a priest, and knew that my stint as an altar girl was temporary.

At the big traditional church I go to now, there are only altar boys, but in the little tiny community I just moved to, I see altar girls (wearing the same white cotton garb I wore as a child, nothing fancy, no colours). I'm guessing they were also a parish where there just weren't enough little boys to be doing this.

Is that so wrong? What a great way to involve a little kid in church and become accountable for their faith. If its clear that thats the end of the line in terms of any connection between altar servers and priesthood, for girls, then whats the harm, especially if there would be NO altar servers if girls weren't allowed?

[ProVobis]

Originally Posted by ubcgirl

especially if there would be NO altar servers if girls weren't allowed?

I've been to Masses without any altar servers. Mass is still valid.

[etmom]

Originally Posted by ubcgirl

Are there no cases when an altar girl is acceptable?

I was an altar girl - in my very small town, with the very small Catholic community, there were only a couple of families who were devout Catholics, mine and another family. We were the ones who were always there (and never late!) The one family had three boys, one of which was too young, and they were all altar servers, as was I. Obviously before/after our generation as young children, there were mostly boys, but I was not the only female altar server in that time period. There just weren't enough children to go around, and even as a little girl, I loved helping the priest, though I never held any false belief that I would ever be able to be a priest, and knew that my stint as an altar girl was temporary.

At the big traditional church I go to now, there are only altar boys, but in the little tiny community I just moved to, I see altar girls (wearing the same white cotton garb I wore as a child, nothing fancy, no colours). I'm guessing they were also a parish where there just weren't enough little boys to be doing this.

Is that so wrong? What a great way to involve a little kid in church and become accountable for their faith. If its clear that thats the end of the line in terms of any connection between altar servers and priesthood, for girls, then whats the harm, especially if there would be NO altar servers if girls weren't allowed?

My daughter is currently an altar server, in a very conservative parish (where we also have TLM available for those who chose it). She has also been altar server when the Bishop (also very conservative) has celebrated Mass at the Cathedral which is our home parish. Our parish probably has 2/3 boys, 1/3 girls for servers, but even with boys and girls, there are not enough servers. None of the boys were asked to serve or asked to serve because they were in the process of "discerning priesthood". My daughter was asked to serve, she did not volunteer or seek to do so. I respect our Monsignor and our Bishop who feels this is appropriate. If they change their minds in the future, that is fine, she serves at their discretion. She views it as service to her parish.

I think to consider it "revolting" is going a bit too far.

[maryjk]

Originally Posted by vz71

Of course it is open to interpretation by the individuals, but the consensus was that the clothing choice indicated more that this person was simply helping as opposed to a person that may be discerning a vocation.

So boys, like my son, who had said they weren't discerning, they wore what the girls wore? Not what the other boys wore?

[YoungTradCath]

I am adamantly opposed to girl altar servers. However, if they must be used I am also adamantly opposed to dressing a girl in clericals. In fact, many dioceses forbid it, such as Denver, for example.

[ConstantineTG]

Originally Posted by EcceAgnusDei

I recently saw at an OF mass an altar girl wearing a cassock and surplice. While I am pleased that this priest has decided to have his servers wear the traditional vestments (there was a boy wearing them, too), there was something even more disturbing about altar girls when they are wearing clerical vestments.

Has anyone else seen this? Is this a step forward or back? I feel like it is a step in the wrong direction as it further blurs the gender distinction in the liturgy, it seems to legitimate altar girls even more, and finally it meshes traditional and modern practices in a way that seems denigrating to the traditional.

What do you think?

+ PAX

Well, traditionally when the Church had deaconesses, they were vested like deacons as well even though they were not ordained like deacons. So I guess this is keeping with the tradition of females performing a function similar to that of their male equivalent being vested similarly regardless of the fact that they cannot be ordained.

[Gift from God]

Originally Posted by TrueLight

I know its hard to prove without any shadow of a doubt of causality when it comes to serving and vocations, but it makes sense that an altar server will at least think about the priesthood at some point.

I was an altar server. I never wanted to be a priest. I know many people who have been altar servers and not one of them have wanted to be priests. They're kids, they won't think about things like that

[indiecath]

Females should never wear the cassock and surplice. At our Cathedral Basilica the girls wear albs with a large scapular covering them.

[vz71]

Originally Posted by Baelor

I do not understand. Please explain to me how a five-year-old altar server now has the "experience" necessary for priesthood.

You are confusing me here.
NO ONE has indicated anything concerning 5 year old boys.

Originally Posted by Baelor

More importantly, your post is flawed at the fundamental level: girls have no vocation to the priesthood, and therefore cannot have that vocation unfulfilled.

Vocation means more then you are claiming here.
Are you being intentionally obtuse?

[vz71]

Originally Posted by ProVobis

I've been to Masses without any altar servers. Mass is still valid.

Indeed, my own Parish priest is quite skilled at doing it all himself.

I suppose it comes with the territory.
He presides over 2 parishes where there were once 6 priests and 20 religious living and maintaining.

[vz71]

Originally Posted by maryjk

So boys, like my son, who had said they weren't discerning, they wore what the girls wore? Not what the other boys wore?