Why do some traditional Catholics reject the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?

[thistle]

Originally Posted by Laudate Dominum

So.. Saint Dominic, Bl. Alan, Saint Louis, Saint Alphonsus (and countless others) have been praying an incomplete rosary? And not only that... Our Lady has continually recommended an incomplete rosary to the faithful?

The Sorrowful Mysteries are the public life of Christ. This is what He was all about.

That's what I mean about some people getting uptight about a private devotion.

By the way I see you did not read my post carefully. I said the Luminous Mysteries covered the public MINISTRY of Christ. The Sorrowful Mysteries are not about his public ministry.

[Luvtosew]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

Your post sounds very sad and disappointing to me.

It is -1- a series of meditations on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ (that alone has benefits without the Hail Mary prayers), and -2- it is a circlet of requests asking someone else (the BVM) to pray for you. You are not entitled to those prayers on your behalf, you can ask but you cannot presume to get them.

If you take the attitude that the rosary just automatically works, and that is why you pray it, you have reduced a useful and helpful devotion to magic and conjuring, which is a very dangerous thing to add to a Christian's religion.

Do it because it improves you, not because it 'works'.

[Padraig1972]

Originally Posted by thistle

That's what I mean about some people getting uptight about a private devotion.

By the way I see you did not read my post carefully. I said the Luminous Mysteries covered the public MINISTRY of Christ. The Sorrowful Mysteries are not about his public ministry.

I get uptight because certain people in this thread accuses people like me of using the rosary as a magic formular or for personal gain. And for example accuses one of being disobedient to a blessed pope.

Praying the rosary to achive personal gains or make it a magic formulas is dangerous. Yes. Like living as a catholic, i have no guarantee about anything. You just have to do good, attend mass, do your duties in church and treat your next as good as one possibly can do.

Yet, you still have no guarantees. But trying to develop and strengthen faith. Now, if i understand what certain people here thinks, that is a bad thing. And this is the traditionalist forum. What is happening? Is this some kind of a joke or set up?

I begin to wonder if the best thing would be to leave this place and concider it a bad nightmare.

[figs]

Here's an excerpt from an interesting page explaining the evolution of the "Rosary"

We have to keep in mind that over the centuries there has been a considerable evolution in the form that this devotion called the Rosary has taken. We have to remember that in the time of St. Dominic:

The HAIL MARY did not exist as we pray it today. Only the first half of it was then used. The word JESUS was not added until the 14th century, and the second half of the prayer came later still.
The OUR FATHER and the GLORY BE TO THE FATHER were not then part of the Rosary.
The Mysteries of the Rosary were not fixed as they are now. Even in the 15th century in the time of ALAN DE RUPE, O.P., who was responsible for the revival of the Rosary devotion 250 years after the time of St. Dominic, the Rosary he preached was the Marian Psalter of 150 Hail Marys and 150 mysteries. These were divided into three groups of fifties dedicated to the Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious mysteries. The fifteen mysteries in use today were officially established by Pope Pius V in 1569.
There was no pendent (the cross and five extra beads) as we have now.
The very word "Rosary" taken from the Latin word "rosarium" meaning rose garden, or bouquet of roses, was not used in the time of Dominic as applied to this devotion. So obviously there would be no reference to that term in documents of his time.

http://www.rosary-center.org/ll49n5.htm

[Rich C]

Originally Posted by Padraig1972

I begin to wonder if the best thing would be to leave this place and concider it a bad nightmare.

What did you expect? This isn't Fish Eaters, the traditionalist position can't be taken for granted. I think you should stay, you add a lot to the conversation.

[GaryTaylor]

OP-I don't to me the Mysteries of the Gospel are the purpose of praying the Rosary. So I find the Lum. another dimension to the whole.

[barb finnegan]

Originally Posted by newyorkcatholic

I don't "reject" them, but for many reasons I don't use them.

If I do ever say them, it would be additionally on top of the usual Joyful mysteries on Thursday.

John Paul II was himself very clear that these are offered for consideration ... there is no problem from his own encyclical in not using them.

Exactly!

When the Luminous Mysteries came out in late 2002, I was working in the local Catholic bookstore. Whenever customers came in to get cards and / or booklets on the Rosary, I would always mention that the Luminous Mysteries 'filled in' the gap between the childhood of Our Lord (Joyful) and His Passion (Sorrowful). Some people liked the 'new' mysteries, and others didn't.

But I have heard some very nasty comments from 'some' traditional Catholics, saying, "The Pope has 'changed' the Rosary!"

Whenever I hear that, I try to say, "He didn't 'change' the Rosary with the Luminous Mysteries-he merely 'suggested' them. You're not 'forced' or 'obliged' to use them. It's up to you if you want to or not!"

I used to do them myself, but now I don't. But if I find myself in a setting where they are said (such as in a group), then I'll pray them. No skin off my nose, as the saying goes....

[Rich C]

Originally Posted by figs

The fifteen mysteries in use today were officially established by Pope Pius V in 1569.

Like a boss. The Mass *and* the current Rosary? He may be my new favorite pope.

[Hesychios]

Originally Posted by floresco

Wow, could you find a way to write more negatively about traditional Catholics?

I did't think my comments were negative at all, and I don't see why you should think so.

Originally Posted by floresco

For the record, I am a convert, and therefore completely uninfluenced by childhood nostalgia. It amuses me when people attempt to dismiss my beliefs as nostalgia.

Having lived through it, I know that the yearning for a return to the Latin Mass was primarily nostalgia. This is why I stated that it started out that way, I did not state that it is still that way.

People started buying recordings of the old Latin Mass for just that reason. I bought them and my father bought them.

I had plenty of experience with the old Latin Mass before the changes, it was all we had for years. I witnessed the turmoil and confusion in the parish as we had to change. I saw the attendance drop off and most of all I remember the older folks who became dispirited. I visited the SSPX occasionally when it first started to spread around. I spoke to the attendees and shared a lot of thoughts with them.

I can tell you now without reservation that the primary motivation of most of those people was nostalgia and with some (actually many) of them a strong dose of bitterness.

This is why everyone wanted to bring back the church of the '30's - '40's & '50's. Not because it was the best expression of traditional Catholicism, it was because that was what they remembered and wanted to recover. They were not real traditionalists inj any ideological sense, they were depressed and dispirited people full of nostalgia for 'the good old days'.

Newcomers and young people want a more dignified form of liturgy than the Ordinary Form, and I don't blame them one bit. But the only option they have is the one the SSPX fought so hard for them to get, and that was fueled by nostalgia.

[gary1]

Originally Posted by Holly3278

Hey everyone. Why do some traditional Catholics reject the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary? This is something I never understood.

I love the Rosary as it was. The three traditional Mysteries are redemptive. I pray them every day and don't include the Luminious Mysteries.

[floresco]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

I had plenty of experience with the old Latin Mass before the changes, it was all we had for years. I witnessed the turmoil and confusion in the parish as we had to change. I saw the attendance drop off and most of all I remember the older folks who became dispirited. I visited the SSPX occasionally when it first started to spread around. I spoke to the attendees and shared a lot of thoughts with them.

I recommend that you be clearer in identifying your personal experiences as such, rather than stating your observations as if they were universal facts.

In my experience, people who talk about traditionalist nostalgia usually do so as a put down. It has usually been a way to marginalize and dismiss the concerns of traditionalists.

[Big_Feet]

Originally Posted by Holly3278

Hey everyone. Why do some traditional Catholics reject the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary? This is something I never understood.

I personally see at least two reasons...

1) It does these prayers do not fit their individual preferences, and therefore they reject it as a personal devotion for themselves.

2) As I also believe is the often the case with their disapproval of the OF of the Mass: they have a misconstrued understanding of "T"radition vs. "t"radition, believing they are one in the same, when in fact "T"raditon cannot be changed, while "t"raditon (which the specific form of the liturgy, as well as the Rosary are a part of) can be changed as the Church decides.

There are probably many more, but these are the two that are most evident to me.

[Seamus L]

I've said the Luminous Mysteries with groups in church on occasion, but I've never said it on my own. I guess I just feel the Rosary is already complete. I've never criticized anyone else for saying it, but it just isn't one of my devotions.

[newyorkcatholic]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

I did't think my comments were negative at all, and I don't see why you should think so.

Having lived through it, I know that the yearning for a return to the Latin Mass was primarily nostalgia. This is why I stated that it started out that way, I did not state that it is still that way.

People started buying recordings of the old Latin Mass for just that reason. I bought them and my father bought them.

I had plenty of experience with the old Latin Mass before the changes, it was all we had for years. I witnessed the turmoil and confusion in the parish as we had to change. I saw the attendance drop off and most of all I remember the older folks who became dispirited. I visited the SSPX occasionally when it first started to spread around. I spoke to the attendees and shared a lot of thoughts with them.

I can tell you now without reservation that the primary motivation of most of those people was nostalgia and with some (actually many) of them a strong dose of bitterness.

This is why everyone wanted to bring back the church of the '30's - '40's & '50's. Not because it was the best expression of traditional Catholicism, it was because that was what they remembered and wanted to recover. They were not real traditionalists inj any ideological sense, they were depressed and dispirited people full of nostalgia for 'the good old days'.

Newcomers and young people want a more dignified form of liturgy than the Ordinary Form, and I don't blame them one bit. But the only option they have is the one the SSPX fought so hard for them to get, and that was fueled by nostalgia.

I don't see how your memories of your personal experiences translates into your being able to read the minds of all the people who desired the Latin Mass, and to see that their motive was nostalgia.

And also see through all that theological puff in works like those of Ottaviani, Lefevbre, and so on ... all nostalgia really, no serious concerns.

???

[Padraig1972]

Originally Posted by Rich C

What did you expect? This isn't Fish Eaters, the traditionalist position can't be taken for granted. I think you should stay, you add a lot to the conversation.

Reactions for sure, but being accused for praying the rosary for selfish needs and demanding blessed Virgin Mary to pray for me was not expected. But, one learns every day.