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  #31  
Old Apr 16, '12, 8:05 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

I was harrased and stalked by a football player who litteraly followed me around calling me "f@g".

I was later told that he was homosexual himself!

Years later he approached me with an apology and an indecent proposal. Which of course I rejected.
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  #32  
Old Apr 16, '12, 8:15 pm
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Allegra Allegra is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
I was harrased and stalked by a football player who litteraly followed me around calling me "f@g".

I was later told that he was homosexual himself!

Years later he approached me with an apology and an indecent proposal. Which of course I rejected.
I'm sorry those things happened to you.
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  #33  
Old Apr 16, '12, 11:45 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

It was in high school many moons ago it's ok . I just worry about the ones now in jhigh scholl , esp public schools.
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  #34  
Old Apr 17, '12, 4:37 am
TypesAndShadows TypesAndShadows is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
I respectfully doubt there is any school anywhere in the world that truely has a zero-tolerance name-calling policy. Are you honestly trying to tell me that if a teenage student told you that another kid called him a jerk, you would have the offender pulled out of class? How many days of suspension does calling someone a klutz if they fall in the classroom get? Realistically? Kids call each other names all the time and so do adults. Right or wrong, I don't believe for one moment that there's any school that equally enforces a name-calling policy for all students, all names, and in all contexts.

That being said. I don't think that name-calling is okay. I think that a a zero-tolerance policy is unenforcable and anyone who tries to enforce it will be required to resort to hearsay, witch hunts, and selective enforecment and will inevitably end up losing all credibility with students and parents.

What's the solution? I think the best you can do is teach the students the proper way to treat each other and resolve disagreements with each other, explain the terrible effects bullying has on individual students and the school environment as a whole, and make staff aware of how to spot the signs of REAL bullying. (Not calling a classmate a 'bimbo' when annoyed at her.)

I'm concerned about the emphasis on gay-bullying because I think it is driven by a belief system that is perfectly fine with even the most profane of name-calling, as long as a person doesn't have the audacity to say that homosexuality is a sin.
Why on Earth would a zero-tolerance policy on namecalling mean that a child was suspended because another child said they called them a klutz? Zero tolerance has nothing to do with the severity of the punishment, nor the level of evidence required. It is to do with the certainty of immediate consequences, which is what matters when you deal with teenagers, so that a problem is not allowed to develop. As I said, I only ever had to do an official write-up once: nobody ever used that word in my classroom again. I rarely had to send students out, and when I did so it was clear that it was the immediate consequence of their current behaviour. Some namecalling might just lead to a warning, some might lead to immediately being sent out of the classroom until the rest of the class is settled and working, when I'd speak to the student and possibly bring them back in.

Zero tolerance is about never letting the behaviour deteriorate, by intervening promptly and with full support of senior staff. It's about clear rules. It has nothing to do with whatever bogeyman system you're proposing, and it works. It not only let me teach maths more effectively in a rough area, it taught the children about acceptable behaviour, which a Catholic school should obviously be teaching, and it prevented bullying and victimisation in the classroom.

Appropriate expectations: teenagers are capable of behaving well.
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  #35  
Old Apr 17, '12, 8:58 am
signit signit is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TypesAndShadows View Post
Name-calling has no place in the classroom, and no role in anything children should be learning in school. Every school I have observed or taught in has had a policy of no name-calling in the classroom, with sending a child out being the minimum penalty. If you didn't have a zero-tolerance approach to such disruptive behaviour, no one would ever learn anything.
I have in fact heard of private schools (not Catholic) with a zero tolerance policy where the maximum penalty could be expulsion.

Now maybe they wouldn't do this on a first offense but it at least puts the parents on notice that if the kid participates in bullying and gets expelled the tuition money won't be refunded.

Maybe that's a little strong but it's better than in my school days when it was "boys will be boys" and the bullies could bully all they wanted.

[quote=andrewstx;9192176]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonAndLime View Post
I thought this thread would be objecting to homosexual people being bullied.

Turns out it's about how to stop people, who are "innocent", from being accused of being a "gay".


Non homesexuals are often bullied as gay as well. I was skinny, religious, and bad at sports and was bullied by huge guys, called homo and f@g when I was nothing of the sort.

They are going by false stereotypes exactly as is done is the military, Where those who cant keep up physically are called f@gs as well.

I think any bullying is terrible period.
That was me as well. I'm pretty much over it now but it still bothers me thinking about it.

It's important to think about that.

When Catholics post on here and say we shouldn't have anti-gay bullying policies because (this, this, and this), well, the person being bullied might not even have SSA. It's not right to call someone bad names like you mention in any event, and when it's used just because, for instance, somebody doesn't play sports, it adds the element of unfair stereotyping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
I was harrased and stalked by a football player who litteraly followed me around calling me "f@g".

I was later told that he was homosexual himself!

Years later he approached me with an apology and an indecent proposal. Which of course I rejected.
No surprise.

The incident I know of, the kid who was the biggest anti-gay bully was spotted, as a young adult, in a gay bar.

Sometimes I think it's the kid that really does have SSA that feels he has to be a bully to take the heat off himself.
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  #36  
Old Apr 20, '12, 6:29 pm
FallingBlossom FallingBlossom is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

Quote:
The incident I know of, the kid who was the biggest anti-gay bully was spotted, as a young adult, in a gay bar.
I believe Freud calls this reaction formation - basically a defence mechanism where a person feels an impulse, represses it, and its energy finds an exaggerated release by being projected onto someone else. </end little psychology nerd moment>

This may sound like a silly question, but I'd like to know: what is masculine, according to your definitions, and what is feminine? Unfortunately in the world I see around us today, 'masculinity' is defined by objectification of women and how much porn one watches, and 'femininity' necessitates weakness and acceptance of male harassment. Obviously, these are false definitions. So I'd like to know what masculinity and femininity really are, because they aren't defined anywhere else except in negative stereotyping.
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  #37  
Old Apr 21, '12, 4:45 am
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LemonAndLime LemonAndLime is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by signit View Post

That was me as well. I'm pretty much over it now but it still bothers me thinking about it.

It's important to think about that.

When Catholics post on here and say we shouldn't have anti-gay bullying policies because (this, this, and this), well, the person being bullied might not even have SSA. It's not right to call someone bad names like you mention in any event, and when it's used just because, for instance, somebody doesn't play sports, it adds the element of unfair stereotyping.
You quoted me in your post, the first part of the quote attributed to me was said by me, the other part was not.
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  #38  
Old Apr 21, '12, 7:26 am
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

There is no different category of bullying that belongs to "gay" bullying. What all bullying is, is exploitation, in which the exploiter uses others to make himself or herself feel less inadequate and project their own failings -- and anger about their own shortcomings -- onto others. The source of bullying is not limited to one gender or the other -- nor, will I add, to any age group. Bullies come in all ages and in both genders. The schoolyard/classroom version is only one of many categories. There are all kinds of environments -- including office settings with little oversight -- in which adult bullies reign and thrive. Like school bullies, they feel so insecure about their own power-base that they create an artificial air of power by which they dominate and oppress, often threatening their victims overtly or by implication with dire consequences for not submitting to their power. People who feel truly competent in their personal and social niche have no need to resort to something as demeaning to the human person as bullying. Bullying is a reflection of insecurity, or the prospect of real or imagined insecurity. It is a lowering of self and others to the "laws of the jungle" in which brute power (dominance) is the operative factor.

Bullies create enormous evil, wherever they are allowed to operate: they poison the environment and cause injustice. Their prime victims are those whom they perceive as most vulnerable, which would include anyone who is socially vulnerable, such as a member of a minority group of any kind, and such as a person who is not "armed" emotionally (someone who is kind and non-aggressive, who has no taste for combat). They project their vulnerabilities onto conveniently vulnerable victims.

As evidenced in spousal abuse, bullies will continue to exploit unless forcefully stopped. The victim often cannot leave the environment (or if he or she can, the bully will merely find another victim). Gays are most often simply a target of convenience, and nothing else. They are not a "special category." Nevertheless (again) the evil of allowing bullying to become an unaddressed example mandates that authorities with courage and commitment take charge. That is not solved by creating a special category but by adults taking responsibliity for unacceptable abuses by those underneath their own authority.

Bullies are impervious to words and regulations (supposedly "stiffer" ones against "gay" bullying). Words and regulations are a cop-out on the part of authority figures. Only severe and practical actions and consequences, including physical removal, will restrain bullies. As an adult currently being bullied by another adult, and with no recourse on my part to any higher authority figure, I know exactly what the dynamic is.
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  #39  
Old Apr 21, '12, 4:04 pm
signit signit is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by LemonAndLime View Post
You quoted me in your post, the first part of the quote attributed to me was said by me, the other part was not.
Apologies; it was a typo.
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  #40  
Old Apr 22, '12, 8:21 am
He Man He Man is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by Alder View Post
Do we?



From what I remember of highschool the harassment students, especially boys, who were either suspected of homosexuality or openly gay was very common or at least as common as other forms of bullying.

That's just my personal experience. I was never bullied for this reason but I saw it happen.

Guys were teased for being nerds, geeks or virgins wayyyyy more than for being homosexual when I was in high school in the nineties. And that was an all male high school, full of testosterone.

When we called someone a " @#!*% " it was simply a derogatory remark. There was no implication that the person was gay. It was like calling him a "loser." Why address only homosexual slang, when other derogatory terms are just as bad?
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  #41  
Old Apr 22, '12, 8:25 am
He Man He Man is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by Lujack View Post
Making it clear that certain words aren't acceptable. Just as you don't use a certain word that begins with n and refers to black people (or d and refers to Italians, or P and refers to the Polish) as a casual insult, you don't use a certain word that begins with p and refers to a certain part of the female anatomy, or a certain word that begins with f and refers to gay people as an insult.

And just as you don't complete that someone's action was "so Irish", you don't complain that things are "so gay".

I don't understand why it is such a hard issue to say "Treat people kindly; don't use parts of their identity as an insult."
And calling the smarter kids geeks is okay though? Or the slow athletes dumb jocks?

Or calling the overweight kids fat?

Why target select language when other language is just as or eve more common?
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  #42  
Old Apr 22, '12, 11:04 am
Lujack Lujack is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by He Man View Post
And calling the smarter kids geeks is okay though? Or the slow athletes dumb jocks?

Or calling the overweight kids fat?

Why target select language when other language is just as or eve more common?
Where did I say that any of that was okay? Addressing one problem does not imply that other problems do not exist.
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  #43  
Old Apr 24, '12, 8:05 am
He Man He Man is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by Lujack View Post
Where did I say that any of that was okay? Addressing one problem does not imply that other problems do not exist.

Just highlighting that we should address bullying in general. To single out a certain type as aggregious gives it more weight thatn it should have, and in the case of "gay" bullying, could indirectly have the reverse effect of lending support to the lifestyle in question.

It's like trying to eliminate recism and singling out only anti-black language. It needs to be broader to have any real affect.
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  #44  
Old Apr 24, '12, 11:26 am
DarkLight DarkLight is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

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Originally Posted by He Man View Post
Just highlighting that we should address bullying in general. To single out a certain type as aggregious gives it more weight thatn it should have, and in the case of "gay" bullying, could indirectly have the reverse effect of lending support to the lifestyle in question.

It's like trying to eliminate recism and singling out only anti-black language. It needs to be broader to have any real affect.
I'm not sure addressing a particularly prominent type needs to have that effect. But in any case...I posted this because what I saw happening was the opposite. Leaders were specifically ignoring certain kinds of bullying because they didn't want to be seen as "supporting that lifestyle."

In any case, I also think it points to some very warped ideas about men and women. A guy that respects women and doesn't want to objectify them is gay? A woman who waits for a guy to treat her with respect is a lesbian? What's wrong with this picture?
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  #45  
Old Apr 24, '12, 11:48 am
FaithBuild18 FaithBuild18 is offline
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Default Re: Addressing "gay" bullying without supporting homosexuality?

This topic is kind of ridiculous. If you're straight and jokingly get called gay, and you get your panties in a bunch as a result of it, you have some issues.

What I was expecting to be addressed is that using the term "gay" as an insult offends gay people. Such a claim I tend to dismiss anyways, especially because those who are against the use of "gay" in colloquial speech, at least at my University, are the same kids who run around saying G*d d*mn, and the F word and various other obscenities like it's their job. Words like "gay" are in no way worse than the aforementioned obscenities, and thus I will continue to refuse to agree with their position. That said, I am at least willing to understand and listen to them.

The request in this topic, however, I find absurd. Straight men need to grow up if this seriously ruins their entire day.
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