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  #16  
Old Apr 17, '12, 6:04 am
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Corki Corki is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by Zekariya View Post
My priest has the faculties, from the bishop, to confirm people. I have asked my priest and he doesn't know the answer, with regards to the Roman age limit for confirmation. Being that I am not married this is not an important answer for my priest to search out at this time. I, however, would like to know if he could be granted permission (especially if there was an authoritative document or canon law stating it).
There is no "Roman age limit" for Confirmation. Latin children are confirmed at various ages depending on circumstances, including in infancy. The age question for Latin parishes applies to the age where children are prepared for Confirmation and where Confirmation Masses are scheduled with the Bishop.

If the time comes when you have a child to present, and there is still no Easter parish nearby, the priest just makes a phone call to the Bishop. That's it. You don't need a document to do this.
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  #17  
Old Apr 17, '12, 6:05 am
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Zekariya Zekariya is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by Corki View Post
There is no "Roman age limit" for Confirmation. Latin children are confirmed at various ages depending on circumstances, including in infancy. The age question for Latin parishes applies to the age where children are prepared for Confirmation and where Confirmation Masses are scheduled with the Bishop.

If the time comes when you have a child to present, and there is still no Easter parish nearby, the priest just makes a phone call to the Bishop. That's it. You don't need a document to do this.
Thanks, Corki!
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  #18  
Old Apr 17, '12, 7:04 am
dans0622 dans0622 is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by Zekariya View Post
I am a Melkite Catholic ...Suppose I get married... If my wife gave birth to a child, would the infant be allowed to be baptized and then immediately confirmed (i.e. chrismated) as long as the priest has the faculties to preform the sacrament of confirmation? If the priest does not have the faculties to confirm my infant, could the local bishop do the confirmation?

I would greatly appreciate it if you could shed some light on this. Perhaps you could show me something from the two Codes Canon Law ...
Hello,

A Latin Church bishop could always confirm anyone, anytime, since he is the "ordinary minister" of this Sacrament, in the terminology of the Latin Code (c. 882). If a Latin presbyter has the faculty to confirm (c. 882), then he can confirm the child of Eastern Catholic parents. From the CCEO, c. 696.2: "The Christian faithful of Eastern Churches validly receive this sacrament (Chrismation) even from presbyters of the Latin Church, according to the faculties they (the Latin presbyters) have."

If your parish priest has the faculty, nothing else needs to be given to him or permitted him before he could confer this Sacrament on your hypothetical child. That being said, it would be good--and guarantee the liceity of the Baptism/Chrismation--if the Latin and Eastern authorities agreed to designate a Latin presbyter(s) to provide pastoral care to the Eastern faithful, where Eastern priests are lacking (cf. CCEO c. 696.3).

Dan
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  #19  
Old Apr 17, '12, 7:07 am
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by dans0622 View Post
Hello,

A Latin Church bishop could always confirm anyone, anytime, since he is the "ordinary minister" of this Sacrament, in the terminology of the Latin Code (c. 882). If a Latin presbyter has the faculty to confirm (c. 882), then he can confirm the child of Eastern Catholic parents. From the CCEO, c. 696.2: "The Christian faithful of Eastern Churches validly receive this sacrament (Chrismation) even from presbyters of the Latin Church, according to the faculties they (the Latin presbyters) have."

If your parish priest has the faculty, nothing else needs to be given to him or permitted him before he could confer this Sacrament on your hypothetical child. That being said, it would be good--and guarantee the liceity of the Baptism/Chrismation--if the Latin and Eastern authorities agreed to designate a Latin presbyter(s) to provide pastoral care to the Eastern faithful, where Eastern priests are lacking (cf. CCEO c. 696.3).

Dan
Thanks a lot, Dan! This is really helpful. I appreciate it!
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  #20  
Old Apr 17, '12, 7:08 am
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by Vico View Post
The parents must arrange with the priest in advance so it will not be disruptive. The practice is for very young infants, that cannot take solid food, to receive only the Blood of Christ.
I would second that. In addition, I would also contact the nearest Melkite parish, or even the offices of the Eparchy, so that they too might contact the local priest and explain the situation to the RC pastor.
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  #21  
Old Apr 17, '12, 8:59 am
porthos11 porthos11 is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

My take on this is that it may not be possible because the Roman-rite priest would be bound by Roman liturgical and canon law, unless he received biritual faculties.

What you could probably do is request permission or arrange with your Roman-rite pastor to have the ceremonies performed by a Byzantine-rite Catholic priest and have the records maintained in your Roman-rite parish.
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  #22  
Old Apr 17, '12, 9:18 am
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Zekariya Zekariya is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by porthos11 View Post
My take on this is that it may not be possible because the Roman-rite priest would be bound by Roman liturgical and canon law, unless he received biritual faculties.
I could be wrong, however, I figured that he could get permission from his bishop to preform the chrismation/confirmation. Of course, if canon law doesn't permit it, I would have to make arrangements and travel to an eastern parish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by porthos11 View Post
What you could probably do is request permission or arrange with your Roman-rite pastor to have the ceremonies performed by a Byzantine-rite Catholic priest and have the records maintained in your Roman-rite parish.
Please understand, I just wanted to know if a Roman priest can chrismate/confirm an eastern infant and, if possible, shown authoritative claims.

A women wants her father to give her away at her marriage.
A catechumen wants his friend who led him to the Church to be his sponsor.
Et cetera, et cetera...
I want my spiritual father to, if it's allowed, chrismate/confirm my children as infants.


It's not really a matter as to where the records are to be located. If my pastor can't initiate my children, I will go to an eastern parish. I'll travel 100 miles to an eastern parish if needed.
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  #23  
Old Apr 17, '12, 9:21 am
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Corki Corki is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by porthos11 View Post
My take on this is that it may not be possible because the Roman-rite priest would be bound by Roman liturgical and canon law, unless he received biritual faculties.

I don't think that would be an issue unless the parents wanted the priest to use the Eastern rite for the Chrismation.
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"It is not “progressive” to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life." Pope Francis
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  #24  
Old Apr 17, '12, 9:22 am
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Zekariya Zekariya is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by Corki View Post
I don't think that would be an issue unless the parents wanted the priest to use the Eastern rite for the Chrismation.
I have no issue with the Western Rite being used.
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  #25  
Old Apr 17, '12, 6:53 pm
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Vico Vico is online now
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corki View Post
There is no "Roman age limit" for Confirmation. Latin children are confirmed at various ages depending on circumstances, including in infancy. The age question for Latin parishes applies to the age where children are prepared for Confirmation and where Confirmation Masses are scheduled with the Bishop.

If the time comes when you have a child to present, and there is still no Easter parish nearby, the priest just makes a phone call to the Bishop. That's it. You don't need a document to do this.
As a reference for the Latin Church:
12. What about age? Doesn't the Church require a certain age for Confirmation?
Both the Rite of Confirmation and Canon Law (Canon #891) set the age of discretion (age 7) as the age for Confirmation. Effective July 2002, the U.S. Conference of Bishops designated the age for Confirmation to be between the age of discretion and age 16. Within that range, local bishops may determine their own diocesan policy.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ordsacinit.htm


Zekariya,

This is the applicable canon for Melkites having their infants initiated into the Melkite Church. Melkites are not the subjects of a Latin bishops when they have their own jurisdiction overlapping.

CCEO Canon 695 [Chrismation]
1. Chrismation with holy myron must be administered in conjunction with baptism, except in a case of true necessity, in which case, however, it is to be seen that it is administered as soon as possible.
2. If the celebration of chrismation with holy myron is not done together with baptism, the minister is obliged to notify the pastor of the place where the baptism was administered.

CCEO Canon 696 [Chrismation]
1. All presbyters of the Eastern Churches can validly administer this sacrament either along with baptism or separately to all the Christian faithful of any Church sui iuris including the Latin Church.
2. The Christian faithful of Eastern Churches validly receive this sacrament also from presbyters of the Latin Church, according to the faculties with which these are endowed.
3. Any presbyter licitly administers this sacrament only to the Christian faithful of his own Church sui iuris; when it is a case of Christian faithful of other Churches sui iuris, he lawfully acts if they are his subjects, or those whom he lawfully baptizes in virtue of another title, or those who are in danger of death, and always with due regard for the agreements entered between the Churches sui iuris in this matter.
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Last edited by Vico; Apr 17, '12 at 7:07 pm.
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  #26  
Old Apr 18, '12, 5:52 am
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Zekariya Zekariya is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vico View Post
As a reference for the Latin Church:
12. What about age? Doesn't the Church require a certain age for Confirmation?
Both the Rite of Confirmation and Canon Law (Canon #891) set the age of discretion (age 7) as the age for Confirmation. Effective July 2002, the U.S. Conference of Bishops designated the age for Confirmation to be between the age of discretion and age 16. Within that range, local bishops may determine their own diocesan policy.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ordsacinit.htm


Zekariya,

This is the applicable canon for Melkites having their infants initiated into the Melkite Church. Melkites are not the subjects of a Latin bishops when they have their own jurisdiction overlapping.

CCEO Canon 695 [Chrismation]
1. Chrismation with holy myron must be administered in conjunction with baptism, except in a case of true necessity, in which case, however, it is to be seen that it is administered as soon as possible.
2. If the celebration of chrismation with holy myron is not done together with baptism, the minister is obliged to notify the pastor of the place where the baptism was administered.

CCEO Canon 696 [Chrismation]
1. All presbyters of the Eastern Churches can validly administer this sacrament either along with baptism or separately to all the Christian faithful of any Church sui iuris including the Latin Church.
2. The Christian faithful of Eastern Churches validly receive this sacrament also from presbyters of the Latin Church, according to the faculties with which these are endowed.
3. Any presbyter licitly administers this sacrament only to the Christian faithful of his own Church sui iuris; when it is a case of Christian faithful of other Churches sui iuris, he lawfully acts if they are his subjects, or those whom he lawfully baptizes in virtue of another title, or those who are in danger of death, and always with due regard for the agreements entered between the Churches sui iuris in this matter.
Thanks, Vico!
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  #27  
Old Apr 18, '12, 9:18 pm
dochawk dochawk is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by Zekariya View Post
A women wants her father to give her away at her marriage.
we a tally dealt with this one for my daugheter.

We held her crowning at our outdoor altars (we can seat many more people outdoors than inside, and actually have a conse rated altar there, a shrine to the Theotokos). We started in the parking lot, and I handed her to Father at the patio gate.

hawk
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  #28  
Old Apr 18, '12, 9:23 pm
ConstantineTG ConstantineTG is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
Good question. This is basically part 3 of a 3 part conversation. First we had a thread Eastern toddlers receiving communion in Latin Church about whether EC children under 7 would be allowed to commune in an LC parish, then Question about communion in Eastern Catholic Churches about whether an EC priest is obliged to give communion to LC children who haven't yet been confirmed. (The latter thread is mostly theoretical: in practice, an EC priest will surely not object to giving communion to an LC child who has not yet been confirmed, even though the traditional order is Baptism-Confirmation-Eucharist for both the East and the West.)
Actually when I asked if my son (1 year old at the time) can start receiving Communion in our parish (we are still canonically Latin Rite), the priest asked if he has been confirmed. If not, then he says he cannot give communion.
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  #29  
Old Apr 18, '12, 11:55 pm
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

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Originally Posted by ConstantineTG View Post
Actually when I asked if my son (1 year old at the time) can start receiving Communion in our parish (we are still canonically Latin Rite), the priest asked if he has been confirmed. If not, then he says he cannot give communion.
It follows from the CCEO canon which states the clergy are to use their own rites (unless of course they have additional faculties) when administering but also to follow the prescriptions of the Church sui iuris of the faithful receiving, yet sometimes these conflict.
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  #30  
Old Apr 19, '12, 12:30 pm
Archpriest Archpriest is offline
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Default Re: Melkite member of a Roman parish - is infant Confirmation allowed?

In principle, by canon, every Catholic is always enrolled within a particular Church and is subject to the canons and particular law of that jurisdiction.

Every Melkite in the United States is a subject (member) of the Eparchy of Newton, no matter the church he or she is attending.

No Catholic may be canonically enrolled in a parish of another Church "sui juris" that has a parish within "travelling distance" (defined by the Roman dicastries as within 100 km). i.e. the closest Melkite pastor has jurisdiction - not the Latin pastor.

The proper minister of Holy Illumination (Baptism, Chrismation and Eucharist) is the canonical pastor (who may canonically delegate that responsibility. i.e. his associate or another priest).

The minister of Baptism must serve the Holy Mysteries according to the canons and ritual of the Church of which he is a member, unless he has the additional faculties of another Church.

May a Latin Chrismate a member of another Church "sui juris"? The simple answer is no! However, there are other factors which may come in to play.

For example, if the parents are in the military, the Archdiocese for the Military Services has particular jurisdictional faculties concurrent with those of the particular territorial diocese or eparchy.

If a Melkite priest is not a possibility then a priest of another Greek-Cathoic jurisdiction (Ukrainian, Ruthenian, Romanian, Russian, Italo-Greek etc.) should be the first instance of recourse.

In addition, most eastern eparchies maintain lists of priests of other jurisdictions (Latin, Maronite etc.) who have been granted bi-ritual faculties.

Expressly forbidden in law would be baptisms by deacons "except in emergency situations."

Any and all questions should be addressed to the proper bishop, i.e. Bishop NICHOLAS of Newton, for resolution. I am sure that he would more than willing to help in any resolution of the problem.
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