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  #1  
Old Apr 23, '12, 9:44 am
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Default Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

Quite a weird suggestion, but I feel this would solve a lot of arguments, flaming and general trouble.
Seems that too many times, an article from the Daily Mail newspaper (the British one!) gets quoted as a source and given the DM's reputation for often dishonest journalism or at least very inflammatory or one-sided arguments, it seems that this causes arguments.

So could a temporary ban be put on quoting the DM as a source?
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  #2  
Old Apr 23, '12, 10:28 am
Cristiano Cristiano is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

If CAF were ban the Daily Mail for that then CAF should ban the New York Times, CNN and a lot of other sources of news because they are often misleading and inflammatory, and they do that intentionally too.
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  #3  
Old Apr 23, '12, 10:49 am
Dale_M Dale_M is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

The Daily Mail is a tabloid,. and needs to be read with some skepticism, as tabloids tend to sensationalize the stories they cover.

However, I think the answer to this is simply pointing out any distortions or inaccuracies in the articles. I've noticed the Daily Mail often has solid reporting, once you get past the headline and first few paragraphs. The real problem is that many people form their opinions based upon nothing more than the headline, or possibly the few paragraphs which are quoted here.

As far as distorted coverage, there are far worse offenders than the Daily Mail. But I think we are opening a smelly can of worms if we start debating which sources are so egregious that they should be banned.
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  #4  
Old Apr 23, '12, 11:46 am
DhuAlQarnayn DhuAlQarnayn is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

I think the problem is many Americans aren't familiar with what tabloids are since we don't really have them here. They sometimes have solid reporting, but they make no pretense of being unbiased and they self-consciously write every article to be as rude and disrespectful of the subject as possible. If you read a Daily Mail article expecting it to have the same tone as a New York Times article, you're going to be unpleasantly surprised.
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  #5  
Old Apr 23, '12, 11:50 am
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Luigi Daniele Luigi Daniele is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DhuAlQarnayn View Post
I think the problem is many Americans aren't familiar with what tabloids are since we don't really have them here. They sometimes have solid reporting, but they make no pretense of being unbiased and they self-consciously write every article to be as rude and disrespectful of the subject as possible. If you read a Daily Mail article expecting it to have the same tone as a New York Times article, you're going to be unpleasantly surprised.
The National Enquirer, and just about everything in the check-out stand at your local grocery store, says hi
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  #6  
Old Apr 23, '12, 12:04 pm
DhuAlQarnayn DhuAlQarnayn is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

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Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele View Post
The National Enquirer, and just about everything in the check-out stand at your local grocery store, says hi
The National Enquirer is as close as it gets in the US, although they frequently just make things up rather than do reporting. The other American tabloids are all about aliens and children raised by wolves and six-headed babies etc. The British tabloids are completely different in that they actually do investigative reporting and report on real news, just with a tone that's carefully calibrated to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
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  #7  
Old Apr 23, '12, 12:20 pm
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

I think I can claim to have been the first to 'out' the Mail as being what it is - some years ago - probably in the context of one 'Muslim ate my hamster!" story or another.

Would I put a temporary ban on it? No, it's better to reveal its outrageous nonsenses each time.

Today, however, there was something a bit different - the Mail reported as 'News' something that was merely the report of somebody's blog ramblings.

Now, to old 'fans' of the Mail, this is just another stage in the Mail's desperation but when used on CAF to pretend that there's a News story, it really does seem another matter.

Partly because it won't be long before some American 'News' source or other will report that Obama is causing the sky to fall, according to a certain Chick Lickin's blog and pretty soon the place will fill with 1000 post threads on that and similarly-sourced 'news' about the naughtiness of Obama.
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  #8  
Old Apr 23, '12, 12:22 pm
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Luna Lovecraft Luna Lovecraft is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DhuAlQarnayn View Post
I think the problem is many Americans aren't familiar with what tabloids are since we don't really have them here.
The Weekly World News? The National Enquirer? The New York Post? Granted, our tabloids are geared around celebrities and their shenanigans, but we do have them.

Luna
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  #9  
Old Apr 23, '12, 12:26 pm
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

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Originally Posted by Kaninchen View Post
Partly because it won't be long before some American 'News' source or other will report that Obama is causing the sky to fall...
I think we've already surpassed this benchmark.
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  #10  
Old Apr 23, '12, 1:11 pm
Cristiano Cristiano is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

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Originally Posted by Luna Lovecraft View Post
The Weekly World News? The National Enquirer? The New York Post? Granted, our tabloids are geared around celebrities and their shenanigans, but we do have them.

Luna
How could you survive in a line (queue for Kaninchen ) at the supermarket without those titles to amaze you?
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  #11  
Old Apr 23, '12, 2:13 pm
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Luigi Daniele Luigi Daniele is offline
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DhuAlQarnayn View Post
The National Enquirer is as close as it gets in the US, although they frequently just make things up rather than do reporting. The other American tabloids are all about aliens and children raised by wolves and six-headed babies etc. The British tabloids are completely different in that they actually do investigative reporting and report on real news, just with a tone that's carefully calibrated to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Thank you very much for that information!
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  #12  
Old Apr 23, '12, 3:56 pm
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale_M View Post
The Daily Mail is a tabloid,. and needs to be read with some skepticism, as tabloids tend to sensationalize the stories they cover.

However, I think the answer to this is simply pointing out any distortions or inaccuracies in the articles. I've noticed the Daily Mail often has solid reporting, once you get past the headline and first few paragraphs. The real problem is that many people form their opinions based upon nothing more than the headline, or possibly the few paragraphs which are quoted here.

As far as distorted coverage, there are far worse offenders than the Daily Mail. But I think we are opening a smelly can of worms if we start debating which sources are so egregious that they should be banned.

Problem is that the DM and the like are guilty of some of the worst distortion of facts. Prime example: a 'survey' (you'll find out why I used these punctuation marks in a minute) which the DM published saying the Muhammad was the most popular name for boys in the UK.

The problem? The DM had twisted the stats to fabricate the headline. All the VARIANTS of the name Muhammad (such as Mohamad, Mohammad, Mohammed, Muhamet etc) had been added together to give the result they published, but other names such as Oliver (with the variant Olly, Ollie etc.) or Christopher (variants including Cristopher, Cristofer, Kristopher and so on) had NOT had all the variants included in the one entry and it turned out that if all variants on one name had been taken as one entry, the name Muhammad would have come SIXTEENTH, not first.

It also trod the line of slander in a case over here which is world-famous. After the killings of a young boy, Stephen Lawrence, the suspects were put on the front of the DM as being the 'real killers'. Fast forward to more recently, a couple of years back now, and these same men were re-tried. and found guilty. Problem for me is that at the time of the original headline denouncing these men as killers, the DM had no more evidence than the police to suggest the men were actually guilty, In any other situation this could have been considered slander but somehow the DM got away with it.

It is also HUGELY hypocritical in its reporting. This same newspaper that denounces the sexulization of children and scantily-clad popstars/celebrities will often print huge full-colour pictures of these same celebrities for children to see over breakfast. As Charlie Brooker of the Guardian said: ''it's like denouncing fox-hunting by ripping apart a fox with your bare hands and then poking the eye out of a rabbit for good measure.''
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  #13  
Old Apr 23, '12, 11:39 pm
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kouyate42 View Post
PThe problem? The DM had twisted the stats to fabricate the headline. All the VARIANTS of the name Muhammad (such as Mohamad, Mohammad, Mohammed, Muhamet etc) had been added together to give the result they published, but other names such as Oliver (with the variant Olly, Ollie etc.) or Christopher (variants including Cristopher, Cristofer, Kristopher and so on) had NOT had all the variants included in the one entry and it turned out that if all variants on one name had been taken as one entry, the name Muhammad would have come SIXTEENTH, not first.'
That doesn't make the problem go away, Kouyate. The Moh. . . variations add up to an apparently large proportion of naughty Muslims.

Except (some of us are veterans on 'Muslim ate my hamster' topics at CAF), Muslims seem to have a habit of giving their boys several names and Moh/Muh/Mwhatever turns up more often than not (you'd know better than me but I think there's some tradition/superstition about it being religiously advantageous) so while the boy might be called Ali or Khalid, he'll have a Moh somewhere. It's almost like the Sikhs and 'Singh' (lion) or 'Kaur' (princess).

The real nonsense behind it all ('Millions of Muslims are going to eat all our hamsters') is revealed when one asks questions like "Where is the second most popular Muslim boys' name?" and, even more tellingly, "Where is the most popular Muslim girls' name?" The answer is, of course, embarrassing for Daily Mail enthusiasts.
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  #14  
Old Apr 24, '12, 3:28 pm
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaninchen View Post
That doesn't make the problem go away, Kouyate. The Moh. . . variations add up to an apparently large proportion of naughty Muslims.

Except (some of us are veterans on 'Muslim ate my hamster' topics at CAF), Muslims seem to have a habit of giving their boys several names and Moh/Muh/Mwhatever turns up more often than not (you'd know better than me but I think there's some tradition/superstition about it being religiously advantageous) so while the boy might be called Ali or Khalid, he'll have a Moh somewhere. It's almost like the Sikhs and 'Singh' (lion) or 'Kaur' (princess).

The real nonsense behind it all ('Millions of Muslims are going to eat all our hamsters') is revealed when one asks questions like "Where is the second most popular Muslim boys' name?" and, even more tellingly, "Where is the most popular Muslim girls' name?" The answer is, of course, embarrassing for Daily Mail enthusiasts.
What?
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  #15  
Old Apr 25, '12, 12:03 am
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Default Re: Suggestion for the World News forum: ban on quoting the Daily Mail as a source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kouyate42 View Post
What?
When the Mail gets excited about Mohammed (inclusive of the various other Mwhatsits), there's more to a response than saying that it includes the variations, you still end up with a threatening (to the Mail, anyway) number of Muslims.

One part of it is that Muslim parents tend to include Mohammed (in one variation or another) in the set of names they give to their sons, whatever the name they'll be known by (Ali, Khalid etc) in everyday life. Non-Muslim parents don't have the same tendency to do things like include, say, 'William' or 'Harry' in their set of names, so the non-Muslim list isn't skewed beyond what's currently in fashion.

Now, if one looks at the list of popular names, one finds that other Muslim boys' names are very difficult to find - the popularity of Mohammed is actually a pretty good guide to the total number of Muslim boys (Mohammed, Ali Mohammed, Khalid Mohammed, Whatever Mohammed), ie a small proportion of the total number of boys born.

Anyway, back to the Mail's threatening number of Muslims. The Mail's case might be more 'convincing' if it wasn't for the fact that half of baby Muslims are girls. But where are the Fatimahs, the Ayeshas, the Zainabs on the list of popular names?

The answer is, like Muslim boys' names other than Mohammed, they're hard to find.

So, the popular names list doesn't reflect there being a proportionately large number of Muslim babies but, rather, that Muslim parents are pretty boring in their name choices for boys (that's unfair of me because I'm sure I read that there's some tradition about there being some religious advantage to a boy having Mohammed as one of their given names).
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