State Military Defense Organization job (Corporate) - Good or bad?

vlmt · #1 Apr 23, '12, 9:58 pm

Dear friends,

I have just graduated from university and am currently searching for Human Resource related jobs. I have certain industries I am interested in (Healthcare, Education, Non-profit) as I feel is more meaningful than just working for the sake of the salary. However, my parents told me not to close any doors and apply for anything that is okay because the economy is not doing too well, and many are finding it hard to even find a job.

I applied for quite a few jobs and went on a few interviews for 2 months but have not found a job. However, I just recently heard from a government agency dealing with State Defense and they have shortlisted me for an interview.

I'm in a conflict as to whether or not I should go for the interview. I recall a talk by a Priest at my school previously for graduating students about certain jobs that we should not take up. And jobs that deal with the military and weaponry is one of them as they encourage war and killing. Despite the organization stating that they always look to diplomacy first, and only if it fails, then engaging in war or aggressive stances, I still can't help but feel it may be wrong to even have thoughts about joining this organization because they do train soldiers to hold a gun or grenade to kill others in times of war.

I don't know if I should regard the state organization to be good - They keep our country safe, or to see them as bad - Training soldiers and air force/navy to kill others in times of war.

Additionally, it's really hard to even get shortlisted for an interview these days, I'm at such a loss. What should I do?

Lost Wanderer · #2 Apr 24, '12, 12:31 am

Last time I checked, even private individuals are entitled to use of force and violence to defend themselves. I believe there are entries in the CCC which allow the same liberty to entire countries and thus the Church is not entirely opposed to military defenses.

**Dale_M** · #3 Apr 24, '12, 12:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlmt

. I recall a talk by a Priest at my school previously for graduating students about certain jobs that we should not take up. And jobs that deal with the military and weaponry is one of them as they encourage war and killing.

I am not sure where you live, but in countries with democratic governments the decision to go to war is made by politicians. The weapons industry, at least in the US, does not pressure for war.

I don't think working for a defense contractor is morally troublesome. The bigger concern would be working for those who advocate for war. And that is political: certain leaders, certain pundits, certain think tanks etc.

Valentine Angel · #4 Apr 24, '12, 12:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlmt

Dear friends,

I have just graduated from university and am currently searching for Human Resource related jobs. I have certain industries I am interested in (Healthcare, Education, Non-profit) as I feel is more meaningful than just working for the sake of the salary. However, my parents told me not to close any doors and apply for anything that is okay because the economy is not doing too well, and many are finding it hard to even find a job.

I applied for quite a few jobs and went on a few interviews for 2 months but have not found a job. However, I just recently heard from a government agency dealing with State Defense and they have shortlisted me for an interview.

I'm in a conflict as to whether or not I should go for the interview. I recall a talk by a Priest at my school previously for graduating students about certain jobs that we should not take up. And jobs that deal with the military and weaponry is one of them as they encourage war and killing. Despite the organization stating that they always look to diplomacy first, and only if it fails, then engaging in war or aggressive stances, I still can't help but feel it may be wrong to even have thoughts about joining this organization because they do train soldiers to hold a gun or grenade to kill others in times of war.

I don't know if I should regard the state organization to be good - They keep our country safe, or to see them as bad - Training soldiers and air force/navy to kill others in times of war.

Additionally, it's really hard to even get shortlisted for an interview these days, I'm at such a loss. What should I do?

Hi!

I'm a little confused. What government agency? What is meant specifically by state defense, what does it involve? What specifically would you be doing?

Joining the military (if that's what you're talking about) and training to possibly kill others in self-defense, and in the defense of our country and our constitution is not against Church teaching. You become strong to protect and serve the weak.

This is why the military is sometimes called "the service." However, this might not be part of God's plan for you. You have free will, and can choose. But I would pray and ask God if this is what he wants me to do. And while you don't want to be overly picky in choosing a job, you don't want to pick one that may be totally unsuited to your personal beliefs and temperment, chosen out of fear or despiration.

I hope this is helpful. I could be even more help if I truly understood what you'd be doing. If you can, reply and clarify it for me.

God Bless and good luck!

CHRISTUS VINCIT! CHRISTUS REGNAT! CHRISTUS IMPERAT!

Carolus Martell · #5 Apr 24, '12, 3:50 am

I recall a talk by a Priest at my school previously for graduating students about certain jobs that we should not take up. And jobs that deal with the military and weaponry is one of them as they encourage war and killing.

It's Priests like that have brought us to this sorry state we live in today...thanks again to the draft dodgers, closet modernists and homosexuals out there.

First of all ...there's dignity in all labor, get that threw your indoctrinated skull. Now if you and everyone else followed the Priests advice that would leave our military, DoD, defense industries under the leadership and control of...atheists? How is that a good thing?

No offense but It's astonishing how naive you education has left you. When I post this I will get off the computer to say an Our Father, Hail Mary and Glory be in thanks giving that you're NOT going to become a public school teacher.

vlmt · #6 Apr 24, '12, 4:55 am

@ Lost Wanderer & Dale_M: Thanks! So am I right to say that if the act was done in self defense and not intentional (those by war advocates), these military defenses are okay? I talked to one of my friends and he did tell me that in some cases, war is “justified”, which I haven’t gone to read up on yet. I would have thought that all wars are unjustified because that would mean the use of violence, which I’m sure Jesus would not advocate…

@Valentine_Angel: It is a government agency that is in charge of all the defenses of the state, which majority would lie under military, airforce, navy etc. Thanks for clarifying about being strong to protect and serve the weak, like what Lost Wanderer & Dale_M had mentioned, I guess it is okay to work with the agency as long as they do not become advocators of war and try to start one (You’ll never know though, one day something sparks between 2 countries and one party goes crazy o_O).

@ Carolus_Martell: I agree that there is definitely dignity in all labor, but definitely not if you’re working for one that advocates war. Just to clarify, the priest did not state that ministries of defenses are evil and all Catholics should quit and leave it to the atheists. He mentioned military and weaponry that encourage war and killing, and I was just clarifying about a government’s stance and role with regards to encouraging military and weaponry usage.

Indeed, I am offended a little by your post. I do not believe you know me well enough to call me naïve, due to my education. Granted, I am not the smartest person, but I believe I should not be insulted by you in such a way that you need to pray to God in order to thank Him that I’m not becoming a public school teacher. That last comment was very degrading and I am quite sure you wouldn’t like someone to say that to you.

SamH · #7 Apr 24, '12, 7:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolus Martell

It's Priests like that have brought us to this sorry state we live in today...thanks again to the draft dodgers, closet modernists and homosexuals out there.

I am wondering what they say about the Priests that serve in the military as chaplains.

PatriceA · #8 Apr 24, '12, 7:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

I am wondering what they say about the Priests that serve in the military as chaplains.

That's what I was going to comment as well. There are many good Catholics serving in the military today, many working for the Department of Defense. The priest in the OP sounds like he was stating more of a personal opinion than an actual teaching of the Catholic Church. To the OP, please do some more research on what the Catholic Church actually teaches on the military. If you have personal misgivings on taking the job, that's one thing. But to reject the job offer because one priest stated more of his personal opinion than an actual teaching is another.

This link might even help you: http://www.milarch.org/

I would also suggest you do a little more research on this agency that offered you a job because it does seem that you don't understand exactly what it does or what the military does. The military does not train its soldiers to just kill or encourage war.

SamH · #9 Apr 24, '12, 1:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlmt

I recall a talk by a Priest at my school previously for graduating students about certain jobs that we should not take up. And jobs that deal with the military and weaponry is one of them as they encourage war and killing. Despite the organization stating that they always look to diplomacy first, and only if it fails, then engaging in war or aggressive stances, I still can't help but feel it may be wrong to even have thoughts about joining this organization because they do train soldiers to hold a gun or grenade to kill others in times of war.

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)

The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.”

Perhaps Jesus wasn't the pacifist the priest thought he was.

**Dale_M** · #10 Apr 24, '12, 11:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlmt

@ Lost Wanderer & Dale_M: Thanks! So am I right to say that if the act was done in self defense and not intentional (those by war advocates), these military defenses are okay? I talked to one of my friends and he did tell me that in some cases, war is “justified”, which I haven’t gone to read up on yet. I would have thought that all wars are unjustified because that would mean the use of violence, which I’m sure Jesus would not advocate

HI vlmt,

Yes, a war in self-defense is morally legitimate. I will quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Quote:

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.66

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p3s2c2a5.htm

Lost Wanderer · #11 Apr 25, '12, 12:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlmt

@ Lost Wanderer & Dale_M: Thanks! So am I right to say that if the act was done in self defense and not intentional (those by war advocates), these military defenses are okay? I talked to one of my friends and he did tell me that in some cases, war is “justified”, which I haven’t gone to read up on yet. I would have thought that all wars are unjustified because that would mean the use of violence, which I’m sure Jesus would not advocate…

Jesus overturned the tables of money changers, whipped animals out of the temple, and also cursed a fig tree to be forever barren. I can't call that non-violent.

Violence in of itself is not an evil. We commit violence whenever we slaughter farm animals for food. We commit violence whenever we hack away at crops and trees alike. We commit violence in sports like boxing and football. However, are such activities evil? No.

As far as violence in war is concerned, again, self-defense principles apply. On a side note, I'm a bit of a weapons nut (despite lacking knowledge of terminologies along with physics). You more or less can demonstrate the power of a weapon without necessarily killing someone with it.