Rome excommunicates four Ukrainian bishops - Page 2

Peter J · #16 Mar 30, '12, 5:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Roman

Yes, that was the Society of St Josaphat

This is a little tangental, but there was a thread about St. Josaphat recently: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=657808
(I didn't really say much there, just quoted the second-to-last post from this thread:
http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthr...opics/376426/2 )

John of Patmos · #17 Mar 31, '12, 5:21 am

Did they not claim to "excommunicate" HH Benedict XVI?

Hesychios · #18 Mar 31, '12, 6:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by John of Patmos

Did they not claim to "excommunicate" HH Benedict XVI?

Well, that would do it!

Peter J · #19 Apr 1, '12, 5:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

This is a little tangental, but there was a thread about St. Josaphat recently: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=657808
(I didn't really say much there, just quoted the second-to-last post from this thread:
http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthr...opics/376426/2 )

At least, I'm pretty sure I did.

tonydoc · #20 Apr 23, '12, 10:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

I don't know, but I suppose it's possible. Where did you hear that?

Sedevacantists? Indeed!

These folk love to anathematize by name (if you check their website). Who have they anathematized and excommunicated? Let's see...

882 Bishops of the European Union
13 Superiors General (incl. Jesuits, Dominican, Minims, Trappists and the 3 Franciscan First orders
228 Bishops of India
The entire Sacred College of Cardinals (incl. individual anathemas on Cards. Sandri, Dias, Vlk, Burke, Husar, and Levada)
2271 Latin Rite bishops (all named in the anathema)
265 theologians of the Pontifical Gregorian U
the Focolare Movement
John Paul II
Benedict XVI John Paul was posthumously excommunicated, and Benedict was excommunicated for beatifying John Paul.

ByzCathCantor · #21 Apr 23, '12, 11:09 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hesychios

I thought that was old news.

They are just vagantes attached to their latinizations. Perhaps I am wrong but I thought Major-Metropolitan Cardinal Husar had already dealt with them before he retired.

May be old news in some respects, but these are the folks who established the so-called "Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Orthodox Church" in 2009, and ceremoniously excommunicated the Holy Father as one of their first public and official acts effective 1 May 2011. The also excommunicated +Blessed Pope John Paul II and declared his beatification invalid.

They focus on "the beatification of the Spirit of Assisi" as a central reason and rationale.

The declaration is read by Patriarch Elijah and was publicly disseminated via YouTube.

As if there weren't enough problems for our Ukrainian brothers and sisters, Catholic and Orthodox alike, to sort out ...

ByzCathCantor · #22 Apr 23, '12, 11:27 am

recent news article from CNA (dated 29 March 2012)

Alexander Roman · #23 Apr 25, '12, 8:51 am

An acquaintance of mine who is very "Eastern" had this to say.

When I told him, matter of factly, that Rome had excommunicated "those Basilians" - he smiled and said, "What, all of them?"

Seamus L · #24 Apr 28, '12, 6:28 am

I'm really puzzled by some of the reports that come out of Ukraine. The SSJ make it sound like everything is going to hell in a handbasket, yet earlier this year when I met up with a decent sized congregation of Ukrainian born parishoners at a certain Midwestern parish, I was very impressed because they were more Catholic than alot of Roman Catholics.

ByzCathCantor · #25 Apr 28, '12, 6:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus L

I'm really puzzled by some of the reports that come out of Ukraine. The SSJ make it sound like everything is going to hell in a handbasket, yet earlier this year when I met up with a decent sized congregation of Ukrainian born parishoners at a certain Midwestern parish, I was very impressed because they were more Catholic than alot of Roman Catholics.

It is difficult to understand without study and background, but the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC) to which you were exposed is indeed very Catholic in orientation, yet faithful to their traditions as well. In the Old Country, the UGCC is a minority. There are not one but two "counterpart" Orthodox Churches - one independent and one part of the Moscow Patriarchiate. Because of the damage done to all Churches during the Communist era, today their exists much tension over church properties are related issues, as these properties are being returned. However, it is sometimes difficult given the history (Communist era all the way back to the time of the Union of Brest) to equitably determine which Church should rightfully possess which properties. It is clearly a mess, requiring great leadership, patience and prayer to resolve.

To further complicate matters, the small splinter group referred to in this thread has added another wrinkle. Frankly, from what I know, the Catholic Church had no choice but to excommunicate them, not so much because of their public claims and "excommunications", but in the interests of keeping the peace and permitting progress to continue in Orthodox-Catholic dialogue and relations within the Ukraine.

Fortunately, IMHO, the UGCC Major Archbishop, His Beatitute Sviatoslav, is a young and apparently effective leader. He will hopefully be able to promote the best of relations with our Orthodox brethren and represent the interests of the full Catholic Church, East and West, with dignity and honor.

May God grant him and our Ukrainian Greek Catholic brothers and sisters many blessed years!

jwinch2 · #26 Apr 28, '12, 7:20 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

Fortunately, IMHO, the UGCC Major Archbishop, His Beatitute Sviatoslav, is a young and apparently effective leader. He will hopefully be able to promote the best of relations with our Orthodox brethren and represent the interests of the full Catholic Church, East and West, with dignity and honor.

May God grant him and our Ukrainian Greek Catholic brothers and sisters many blessed years!

Wasn't that him who came and spoke with the USCCB a little while back?

ByzCathCantor · #27 Apr 28, '12, 7:52 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwinch2

Wasn't that him who came and spoke with the USCCB a little while back?

Indeed it was - there was a related thread here on CAF

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=616444

jwinch2 · #28 Apr 28, '12, 8:07 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

Indeed it was - there was a related thread here on CAF

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=616444

Thought so. I remember being favorably impressed with him at the time. Not that my impression means anything...

dochawk · #29 May 4, '12, 10:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

There are not one but two "counterpart" Orthodox Churches - one independent and one part of the Moscow Patriarchiate. !

Three, last I heard--theere's MP, KP, and UOAC, and I think a couple of little splinters, too.

hawk

Hesychios · #30 May 5, '12, 4:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

To further complicate matters, the small splinter group referred to in this thread has added another wrinkle. Frankly, from what I know, the Catholic Church had no choice but to excommunicate them, not so much because of their public claims and "excommunications", but in the interests of keeping the peace and permitting progress to continue in Orthodox-Catholic dialogue and relations within the Ukraine.

I disagree with this assessment, unless I misunderstand you in which case I would say I am not comfortable with how it is worded.

The issue between the excommunicated renegade Basilian priests/vagante bishops (most of whom, if I recall correctly, are not actually Ukrainian) and the Papacy-UGCC is strictly a Papal Catholic one. This has nothing to do with the Orthodox of Ukraine, and nothing to do with relations with the Orthodox. It is an internal matter over internal policies and practices, a debate within the Papal communion.