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  #1  
Old Apr 24, '12, 6:32 pm
DadDave DadDave is offline
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Default EC view of Mary?

I heard on a RC radio show discussing how during a difficult birth Mary would be with this mother at her side in the hospital room.
That seemed very odd to me. Obviously God could put Mary in the hospital room. But the gist was more that whenever we pray to Mary she will be by our side.
To me it sounds like that is making Mary omnipresent and omniscient -- something that I thought was reserved for the Trinity alone.
What would be the Eastern view on this?
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  #2  
Old Apr 24, '12, 7:26 pm
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bmullins bmullins is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

I don't see that as omnipresent or omniscient? With God all things are possible. If God permits her to be there, then she's there. If God permits her to be in 100 places at once, then she can be in 100 places at once... God is not limited. If she is there, she is there by God's power. Neither of which requires omnipresence, omniscience, or even omnipotence on her part.. only on God's.
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  #3  
Old Apr 24, '12, 7:34 pm
Mintaka Mintaka is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

We're constantly surrounded by a cloud of witnesses from Heaven. St. Paul said it. Do you not believe it?

The angels are pure spirit and can get around wherever they want, and the blessed saints live in Christ and thus are wherever Christ is. Isn't Mary one of the blessed?
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Old Apr 24, '12, 7:41 pm
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InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

More precisely she may be "multi-present"; which is a FAR cry from omnipresent.

Since this is a mystery accomplished through the grace of God, it most certainly is possible.

It should be noted that the grace of "bi-location" has been witnessed through countless Saints.
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  #5  
Old Apr 24, '12, 8:06 pm
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

It is unclear from the OP how this is a question about the EC view of Mary. Could you clarify?
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  #6  
Old Apr 25, '12, 6:37 am
DadDave DadDave is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor View Post
It is unclear from the OP how this is a question about the EC view of Mary. Could you clarify?
How do the Eastern Churches view the way Mary "ordinarily" operates in our world. I think of the poem "Footsteps on the beach" (or something like that) but instead of Jesus place Mary in there instead. Or think of those paintings that have Jesus side by side with someone working or in the hospital and replace Jesus with Mary.
Would Eastern Churches think of Mary in that way?
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Old Apr 25, '12, 7:27 am
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DadDave View Post
How do the Eastern Churches view the way Mary "ordinarily" operates in our world. I think of the poem "Footsteps on the beach" (or something like that) but instead of Jesus place Mary in there instead. Or think of those paintings that have Jesus side by side with someone working or in the hospital and replace Jesus with Mary.
Would Eastern Churches think of Mary in that way?
I think I understand your premise now. I would say that the Theotokos is viewed universally in the Eastern Churches as our Heavenly Mother, first and foremost. She is commonly referred to in prayer as "intercessor" or "mediatrix". We faithfully believe that by virtue of the bond of motherhood, as well as her other holy attributes and virtues, she enjoys a relationship with our Lord like no other, and worthy petitions made to her and humble prayers brought through her to her Son would always be answered.

Even in the liturgy, prayers are often ended with phrases like "through the intercession of our most Heavenly Mother, the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary ...".

The hymnody devoted to her honor in Eastern Christianity is particularly striking, poetic and deeply spiritual. One cannot sense that our people feel close to her in a unique way when one hears these hymns and witnesses Marian dovotions, the Akathist Hymn in particular.

Among the Slavic peoples, there are icons commemorating several appearances, and annual pilgrimages to these sites are the stuff of legend (Máriapócs, Częstochowa. etc.), drawing Popes and pilgrims alike.

One of the most famous icons of Mary, Our Lady of Perpetual Help, is a general favorite throughout the entire Catholic Church - East and West - and throughout Christianity in general. The term "Perpetual Help" reflects our believe that she is always interceeding on our behalf, as a loving mother does for her children.

Hope that helps!

Excerpt from a very popular Marian Hymn [Carpatho-Rusyn tradition(common English translation)]

O Mary, Mother of our God, most pure one.
Intercede for us before our Lord and God, your Son.
Robed in radiance, more than all the stars above,
Holy Virgin Queen, made so by God's love!
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  #8  
Old Apr 25, '12, 9:39 am
Alexander Roman Alexander Roman is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

From the Eastern Christian POV, the Most Holy Theotokos (she is never referred to as just "Mary" as is wont among RC's and Protestants in the west) can make herself present to us and near us through her intercession and the miracles she performs via her miraculous icons etc.

The "how" this is done is a mystery. In Russia, there is an Orthodox monastery at Diveyevo where the nuns circumambulate around the monastery three times daily reciting the Rosary of 150 Hail Mary's. They believe the Mother of God herself walks around the monastery every day (according to St Seraphim of Sarov) and so they honour her presence among them in this way.

In Eastern monasteries, a place is always set aside at table for the Mother of God and it is believed that she joins the monks/nuns. This is the "panaghia" service that invokes her aid and honours her presence that dates back to the Apostles themselves.

The Mother of God can be with us in spirit when we invoke her and especially when we pray the 150 Hail Mary's of her Rule (she indicated to St Seraphim of Sarov that this form of prayer is the most efficacious one in obtaining her protection and aid for ourselves).

She can also choose to manifest herself where she wishes (she has free will, after all . . .).

At Laus in France, the Ven. Benoite Rencurel, at 15 years of age, was taken before a dismayed Church panel that tried to get her to admit that she was imagining the appearance of the Mother of God to her etc.

The Mother of God told her to tell the panel the next day: "You servants of My Son have the power to call Him down on the altars of the Church during Mass every day. As for myself, you have no power over me. I do what I wish, where I wish and when I wish . . ."

Alex
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  #9  
Old Apr 25, '12, 11:54 am
ThatOneGuy92 ThatOneGuy92 is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Roman View Post
At Laus in France, the Ven. Benoite Rencurel, at 15 years of age, was taken before a dismayed Church panel that tried to get her to admit that she was imagining the appearance of the Mother of God to her etc.

The Mother of God told her to tell the panel the next day: "You servants of My Son have the power to call Him down on the altars of the Church during Mass every day. As for myself, you have no power over me. I do what I wish, where I wish and when I wish . . ."
As though children can tell their mother what to do! Ha!

If the Blessed Virgin Theotokos does make an appearance anywhere, or does anything, it is only because God has allowed it to be done.
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  #10  
Old Apr 25, '12, 12:06 pm
Alexander Roman Alexander Roman is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy92 View Post
As though children can tell their mother what to do! Ha!

If the Blessed Virgin Theotokos does make an appearance anywhere, or does anything, it is only because God has allowed it to be done.
You are a good man, sir!

FYI, I follow Luther's example by keeping an image of Mary near me at all times!

Here I stand . . .

Alex
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  #11  
Old Apr 25, '12, 12:27 pm
ThatOneGuy92 ThatOneGuy92 is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Roman View Post
You are a good man, sir!

FYI, I follow Luther's example by keeping an image of Mary near me at all times!

Here I stand . . .

Alex
I keep a print-out icon of Mary on my wall. It was drawn (not written, since it isn't technically an icon) by my good friend. Ironically enough, she is Catholic and I Lutheran, but I introduced her to the Light of the East. God is funny like that. Anywho, here is the image:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&se...okos+#/d2rg9yd

I'm perfectly comfortable with Mary. Well, I haven't quite gotten to asking intercessions yet, but you know what I mean

I acknowledge her as Theotokos, Ever-Virgin, Queen of Heaven (that last one can be tricky to explain!); I accept her Dormition and Assumption, and I believe that she intercedes, together with all the heavenly host, for the Church and the world.

Here I stand!
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Sincerely your brother in Christ,
Tim

"I cannot persuade myself that without love to others, and without, as far as rests with me, peaceableness towards all, I can be called a worthy servant of Jesus Christ."
- St. Basil the Great
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  #12  
Old Apr 25, '12, 12:32 pm
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy92 View Post
I keep a print-out icon of Mary on my wall. It was drawn (not written, since it isn't technically an icon) by my good friend. Ironically enough, she is Catholic and I Lutheran, but I introduced her to the Light of the East. God is funny like that. Anywho, here is the image:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&se...okos+#/d2rg9yd

I'm perfectly comfortable with Mary. Well, I haven't quite gotten to asking intercessions yet, but you know what I mean

I acknowledge her as Theotokos, Ever-Virgin, Queen of Heaven (that last one can be tricky to explain!); I accept her Dormition and Assumption, and I believe that she intercedes, together with all the heavenly host, for the Church and the world.

Here I stand!
Sure you are not Eastern Catholic?

BTW - your friend's work is beautiful, and exhibits many proper iconograpic elements!

And even though you may not be asking, that doesn't mean the Theotokos isn't interceding!
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  #13  
Old Apr 25, '12, 1:10 pm
ThatOneGuy92 ThatOneGuy92 is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor View Post
Sure you are not Eastern Catholic?

BTW - your friend's work is beautiful, and exhibits many proper iconograpic elements!

And even though you may not be asking, that doesn't mean the Theotokos isn't interceding!
I've also been asked if I'm Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and even.... ELCA!

If you like her art, I'd encourage you to peruse it more. She has many wonderful pieces, and many are religious/sacred art.

Oh, that Theotokos. Just like a mother to do something for a kid without said kid asking!
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Sincerely your brother in Christ,
Tim

"I cannot persuade myself that without love to others, and without, as far as rests with me, peaceableness towards all, I can be called a worthy servant of Jesus Christ."
- St. Basil the Great
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  #14  
Old Apr 25, '12, 2:55 pm
Alexander Roman Alexander Roman is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy92 View Post
I keep a print-out icon of Mary on my wall. It was drawn (not written, since it isn't technically an icon) by my good friend. Ironically enough, she is Catholic and I Lutheran, but I introduced her to the Light of the East. God is funny like that. Anywho, here is the image:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&se...okos+#/d2rg9yd

I'm perfectly comfortable with Mary. Well, I haven't quite gotten to asking intercessions yet, but you know what I mean

I acknowledge her as Theotokos, Ever-Virgin, Queen of Heaven (that last one can be tricky to explain!); I accept her Dormition and Assumption, and I believe that she intercedes, together with all the heavenly host, for the Church and the world.

Here I stand!
You are an even better man than I originally thought, sir!! We can certainly praise her with the Hail Mary as Luther did. And if we do, I've no doubt she will look after our needs via her intercession.

Luther knew about and practiced the Rosary of Schrocken in the Vorarlberg Alps which has 63 Hail Mary's (no Our Father's) and after the words "Blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ" there was a "tag" reflecting an event in the Life of Christ from the NT (I assume all 27 books were involved . . . ).

As Archbishop Sheen once said, "On the day of the Final Judgement, we shall be very happy if the only thing our Lord finds fault with us on is that we loved His Mother too much . . ."

To paraphrase, if I may, you are not far from the Kingdom of Heaven - anyone who believes as you about the Mother of God has an obviously very close relationship to the One she holds in her arms!

Alex
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  #15  
Old Apr 25, '12, 9:36 pm
ThatOneGuy92 ThatOneGuy92 is offline
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Default Re: EC view of Mary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Roman View Post
You are an even better man than I originally thought, sir!! We can certainly praise her with the Hail Mary as Luther did. And if we do, I've no doubt she will look after our needs via her intercession.

Luther knew about and practiced the Rosary of Schrocken in the Vorarlberg Alps which has 63 Hail Mary's (no Our Father's) and after the words "Blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ" there was a "tag" reflecting an event in the Life of Christ from the NT (I assume all 27 books were involved . . . ).

As Archbishop Sheen once said, "On the day of the Final Judgement, we shall be very happy if the only thing our Lord finds fault with us on is that we loved His Mother too much . . ."

To paraphrase, if I may, you are not far from the Kingdom of Heaven - anyone who believes as you about the Mother of God has an obviously very close relationship to the One she holds in her arms!

Alex
You speak too kindly, good sir. I am but a blind beggar, hoping that the Son of David would heal me and grant me entrance into His Kingdom.
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"I cannot persuade myself that without love to others, and without, as far as rests with me, peaceableness towards all, I can be called a worthy servant of Jesus Christ."
- St. Basil the Great
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