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  #16  
Old Apr 28, '12, 4:19 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Pope Gregory the Great on the Veneration of Images

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Originally Posted by snarflemike View Post
I didn't realize latria was ever translated as veneration, but that would explain the OP's post.
Well, it shouldn't be translated that way, but it is.
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  #17  
Old Apr 28, '12, 5:37 pm
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Aelred Minor Aelred Minor is offline
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Default Re: Pope Gregory the Great on the Veneration of Images

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Originally Posted by snarflemike View Post
I didn't realize latria was ever translated as veneration, but that would explain the OP's post. While "worship" has firmly come to mean latria, let's try and make sure that doesn't happen with "veneration" as well.
[Emphasis mine]

Unfortuately, this is true. However, now and then one will still encounter something from a Catholic source about our "worship" of Mary. Usually either an old source or something from someone whose first language is not English, it seems to me. In these cases we just have to point out that it is an older, broader meaning of the word that is being used, acknowledging the "worth" of the person. This older meaning is why I try to remember to say things like "we don't give to Mary the worship that is due to God alone" rather than simply "we do not worship Mary."
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  #18  
Old Apr 29, '12, 1:22 am
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1AugustSon7 1AugustSon7 is offline
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Default Re: Pope Gregory the Great on the Veneration of Images

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelred Minor View Post
[Emphasis mine]

Unfortuately, this is true. However, now and then one will still encounter something from a Catholic source about our "worship" of Mary. Usually either an old source or something from someone whose first language is not English, it seems to me. In these cases we just have to point out that it is an older, broader meaning of the word that is being used, acknowledging the "worth" of the person. This older meaning is why I try to remember to say things like "we don't give to Mary the worship that is due to God alone" rather than simply "we do not worship Mary."
Yes: outside of the United States, in English speaking countries, it is still customary to refer to the Judge as "your worship." We certainly do not mean latria here; and the Protestant domination of England would never have suffered human persons to be given anything even remotely like divine honours. Increasingly there is an Americanization where Justices permit people to refer to them as "your honour."

There used to be a distinction between divine and human worship, but unfortunately today worship is almost synonymous with latria. I believe this is a degradation, and we can thank Hollywood, modern errors and public education for that.
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  #19  
Old Apr 29, '12, 3:45 pm
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
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Default Re: Pope Gregory the Great on the Veneration of Images

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelred Minor View Post
[Emphasis mine]

Unfortuately, this is true. However, now and then one will still encounter something from a Catholic source about our "worship" of Mary. Usually either an old source or something from someone whose first language is not English, it seems to me. In these cases we just have to point out that it is an older, broader meaning of the word that is being used, acknowledging the "worth" of the person. This older meaning is why I try to remember to say things like "we don't give to Mary the worship that is due to God alone" rather than simply "we do not worship Mary."

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AugustSon7 View Post
Yes: outside of the United States, in English speaking countries, it is still customary to refer to the Judge as "your worship." We certainly do not mean latria here; and the Protestant domination of England would never have suffered human persons to be given anything even remotely like divine honours. Increasingly there is an Americanization where Justices permit people to refer to them as "your honour."

There used to be a distinction between divine and human worship, but unfortunately today worship is almost synonymous with latria. I believe this is a degradation, and we can thank Hollywood, modern errors and public education for that.
This is important, the meaning of the word worship, which used to mean "giving what is due".

In that older sense of the word, yes, we do worship Mary because we give her what is her due to her by right. But to say that nowadays would cause scandal. Worship has become adoration and anything less than adoration has either lost it's meaning entirely or has been defined as a sin by non-Catholics.

We have let secular sources and non-Catholics define the words and therefor control the conversation.


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