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  #16  
Old Apr 28, '12, 7:50 pm
RICKY RASPER's Avatar
RICKY RASPER RICKY RASPER is offline
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Default Re: Protestantism and John 5:39

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Originally Posted by joshua_b View Post
I don't think anyone was mocking at all. As a matter of fact, according to what you have stated, we are in 3/4 of the way to agreeing with one another. Catholics also believe that the Lord comes to us through Scripture, prayer, and Eucharist (we can set our differences aside on Real presence for the moment). Where we miss one another is that Catholics would also add the Church. The Church is the Body of Christ. Catholics believe quite simply that Christ established and left us with a visible Church, andwe believe that Church still exists in a readily identifiable form.

To Catholics, the Word of God is not someTHING, it is someONE ("In the beginning the Word was with God, and the Word was God).Both Catholics and Protestants believe Scripture is divinely inspired, and the devout of both camps are loathe to contradict the Bible. I give no argument to you on either of those statements. I am not quite sure how you feel that Genesis proves the Vatican is in contradiction to anything. Are you meaning to imply that anyone who does not believe that all of creation came to be in the confines of a literal 168 hour window is contradictory to the Word of God?

I have no qualms with those who choose to believe that, but if that is your stance, it puts you in a very difficult position if you are going to then try to negate what seems to Catholics to be the very plain meaning of many passages of the Gospel. If "7 days" HAS to mean "7 days" because "it is written", then how can one decide that Jesus is speaking metaphorically when it is written that He said (quite plainly and emphatically) "My flesh is real food", or when it is written "...baptism now saves you".
I believe the books of the bible should be read in context. Genesis is clearly written as an historical account. Adam and Eve are not metaphorical figures neither are their children. The linage of Christ and Mary are directly traced to them. People often look at the world around them and state with great incredulous disbelief that the world could not be created in seven days. Have you ever stopped to wonder why the lunar month is exactly divisible by seven? If God had so wished he could have created the Earth and all within it in a second.
For what it's worth I do believe in the "real presence" as Paul's words in their context could mean nothing but "real presence".
Your Brother Richard
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  #17  
Old Apr 29, '12, 8:12 pm
joshua_b joshua_b is offline
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Default Re: Protestantism and John 5:39

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Originally Posted by RICKY RASPER View Post
I believe the books of the bible should be read in context. Genesis is clearly written as an historical account. Adam and Eve are not metaphorical figures neither are their children. The linage of Christ and Mary are directly traced to them. People often look at the world around them and state with great incredulous disbelief that the world could not be created in seven days. Have you ever stopped to wonder why the lunar month is exactly divisible by seven? If God had so wished he could have created the Earth and all within it in a second.
For what it's worth I do believe in the "real presence" as Paul's words in their context could mean nothing but "real presence".
Your Brother Richard
Actually, Jesus' own words leave no room for anything other than Real presence, in context.

Context is important. I agree with you there too. However it is important to remember that, in context, numbers can be symbolic or metaphorical. I know that the number 40 was a vernacular expression in the ancient Jewish culture for "a lot". Therefore, when we hear about "40 days" in the desert, or "40 days" of rain, or "40 years" in the desert, it could very well simply mean 'a long time', history notwithstanding. I also have no issue believing that the Earth and all of creation could have been instituted by God and completed in a micro-second.

The Church does in fact hold as required belief that Adam and Eve were real individuals, and not allegorical figures. No real ultimate point to this post I guess, just a few thoughts.
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