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  #1  
Old Apr 30, '12, 9:11 am
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aniavictoria aniavictoria is offline
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Default Very strange...or explainable?

Am trying to make sense of this: say a child of 9 years old (at around the time of First Holy Communion in 1990), after reading the bible and being introduced to the Catholic faith, has a first taste (so to speak) of understanding about God and Christianity, and finds love for God. The child also learns to love the ten commandments and discovers the power of them and that to fear God is to love God. Also, they believe and understand the true significance of the third commandment-that whoever takes the Lord's name in vain shall not be forgiven. Now, the child 'goes into the world' with certain beliefs, for instance (for some reason) they out of their own 'right' perhaps, assume that the world in which they live is a predominately Godly world/reality with few people who blaspheme against the Lord. They also believe that people on television (celebrities-who are 'celebrated' and wealthy, attractive, hard working, though not perfect) are Godly because in the child's mind, it would only make sense that these people would be so lucky to be the so well liked by society that they should be so rich and 'powerful' (influential you can say...after all, they do promote lots of products and keep the economy going). So the child lives loving the faith, the Pope and does not hear any blasphemy until one day, as an adult. As strange and weird as it sounds, I am just trying to make sense of this. Would sin be the cause of this? Would deception (and if so, by who?)? Or could there be a psychogical or even physiological factor here? Would love to hear some feedback. Thank you in advance.
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  #2  
Old Apr 30, '12, 10:46 am
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

I'm not sure I understand the question.. can you rephrase it in a sentence?
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  #3  
Old Apr 30, '12, 10:57 am
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

I don't think it would be sin or deception, necessarily. I believe it would be more along the lines of serious naivete on the part of the child. Anyone who lives life believing that only good, God-fearing people receive wealth, fame, fortune, what have you, is truly naive. Not that is wrong for a child to be so, but eventually we all must outgrow that naivete and see the world as it truly is-- fallen. If this naivete continues into adulthood, then I think there may be an issue of self-delusion, but not in childhood.
Children are by nature trusting of things told to them and they generally have little reason to disbelieve what has been taught. They also have a strong sense of right and wrong. Combine these 2, and I can see where said child would believe all people are God-loving, honest, hardworking and deserving of all that they have.
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Old Apr 30, '12, 11:10 am
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

Since when is taking the Lord's name in vain an unforgivable sin? I was under the impression that the only unforgivable sin is the sin of final impenitence.
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  #5  
Old Apr 30, '12, 11:27 am
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aniavictoria aniavictoria is offline
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniavictoria View Post
Am trying to make sense of this: say a child of 9 years old (at around the time of First Holy Communion in 1990), after reading the bible and being introduced to the Catholic faith, has a first taste (so to speak) of understanding about God and Christianity, and finds love for God. The child also learns to love the ten commandments and discovers the power of them and that to fear God is to love God. Also, they believe and understand the true significance of the third commandment-that whoever takes the Lord's name in vain shall not be forgiven. Now, the child 'goes into the world' with certain beliefs, for instance (for some reason) they out of their own 'right' perhaps, assume that the world in which they live is a predominately Godly world/reality with few people who blaspheme against the Lord. They also believe that people on television (celebrities-who are 'celebrated' and wealthy, attractive, hard working, though not perfect) are Godly because in the child's mind, it would only make sense that these people would be so lucky to be the so well liked by society that they should be so rich and 'powerful' (influential you can say...after all, they do promote lots of products and keep the economy going). So the child lives loving the faith, the Pope and does not hear any blasphemy until one day, as an adult. As strange and weird as it sounds, I am just trying to make sense of this. Would sin be the cause of this? Would deception (and if so, by who?)? Or could there be a psychogical or even physiological factor here? Would love to hear some feedback. Thank you in advance.
It isn't that the child here believes that all people are godly or that all people who are even wealthy are all good-but the term 'celebration' is a 'good' word, in the sense that if someone is elevated enough to be celebrated on an international scale (hence the word 'celebrity'), than it must be that those people are for some reason more worthy to be 'endowed' with material wealth and love from the general public, than others.
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  #6  
Old Apr 30, '12, 11:34 am
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

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Originally Posted by Holly3278 View Post
Since when is taking the Lord's name in vain an unforgivable sin? I was under the impression that the only unforgivable sin is the sin of final impenitence.
It says that in the bible where the ten commandments are listed.
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  #7  
Old Apr 30, '12, 12:34 pm
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniavictoria View Post
It isn't that the child here believes that all people are godly or that all people who are even wealthy are all good-but the term 'celebration' is a 'good' word, in the sense that if someone is elevated enough to be celebrated on an international scale (hence the word 'celebrity'), than it must be that those people are for some reason more worthy to be 'endowed' with material wealth and love from the general public, than others.
It is still quite naive to think that simply because someone or something is celebrated that the person or object is a Godly or "good" person. We (people in general) often celebrate immorality. The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. It is neither a blessing from God, nor some kind of deserved reward; it just is. Some people are Godly people and obtain wealth, status or some other earthly reward. Some people are not Godly people at all and still receive wealth, status, or some other earthly reward.
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  #8  
Old Apr 30, '12, 12:48 pm
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

Ok, so (just for argument's sake-not to argue ), would you say that God doesn't do anything with purpose? What about blessing people (especially his people)? Would you not say that at 1% of a population who is nicely rewarded with special treatment and extra attention, that they are chosen to be 'lucky' this way? If it is JUST luck of the draw then what about work? Is work not about glorifying God?
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  #9  
Old Apr 30, '12, 3:31 pm
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniavictoria View Post
Ok, so (just for argument's sake-not to argue ), would you say that God doesn't do anything with purpose? What about blessing people (especially his people)? Would you not say that at 1% of a population who is nicely rewarded with special treatment and extra attention, that they are chosen to be 'lucky' this way? If it is JUST luck of the draw then what about work? Is work not about glorifying God?
Oh, of course God does everything with a purpose. He certainly does bless those who do His will. The mistake is in thinking that what we often consider "blessings" is not what He considers blessings. We consider health, wealth, fame, fortune, etc. to be blessings, when in actuality they are often curses. They may be worldly "blessings", but they are not necessarily God's blessings. God's people very often go through great hardships in this life. When we remain faithful to Him to the end, we will receive the real blessings. The blessings we receive from God while in this earthly life are often considered curses. Some examples-- a man I know had a stroke in the prime of his life. Is it a blessing or a curse? Some would say, "Well of course it was a curse!" He says it is a blessing, because he is learning to depend more on God and the love and support of those whom he had always supported in the past. They are now given the opportunity to care for the one who always cared for them. Like Job, he knows that God has a purpose for his suffering. What a tremendous blessing!
Another man I know is living quite comfortably on the money he has earned throughout his life. He has few, if any, financial worries. Is he blessed? No, because he does not have the respect of his children (he neglected them after abandoning them in order to save that money), and he has very few friends. In my book, he is living a cursed life.
Of course work is to be done to glorify God. It is not always done that way, though. Not everyone does their job for the glory of God, and yes, some of those people still achieve great financial or other success.
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  #10  
Old Apr 30, '12, 4:32 pm
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniavictoria View Post
Ok, so (just for argument's sake-not to argue ), would you say that God doesn't do anything with purpose? What about blessing people (especially his people)? Would you not say that at 1% of a population who is nicely rewarded with special treatment and extra attention, that they are chosen to be 'lucky' this way? If it is JUST luck of the draw then what about work? Is work not about glorifying God?
Here's some good input from the Catechism:

1723 The beatitude we are promised confronts us with decisive moral choices. It invites us to purify our hearts of bad instincts and to seek the love of God above all else. It teaches us that true happiness is not found in riches or well-being, in human fame or power, or in any human achievement - however beneficial it may be - such as science, technology, and art, or indeed in any creature, but in God alone, the source of every good and of all love:

All bow down before wealth. Wealth is that to which the multitude of men pay an instinctive homage. They measure happiness by wealth; and by wealth they measure respectability. . . . It is a homage resulting from a profound faith . . . that with wealth he may do all things. Wealth is one idol of the day and notoriety is a second. . . . Notoriety, or the making of a noise in the world - it may be called "newspaper fame" - has come to be considered a great good in itself, and a ground of veneration.24

2544 Jesus enjoins his disciples to prefer him to everything and everyone, and bids them "renounce all that [they have]" for his sake and that of the Gospel.335 Shortly before his passion he gave them the example of the poor widow of Jerusalem who, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on.336 The precept of detachment from riches is obligatory for entrance into the Kingdom of heaven.
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  #11  
Old Apr 30, '12, 5:17 pm
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Default Re: Very strange...or explainable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniavictoria View Post
It says that in the bible where the ten commandments are listed.
You misunderstand.

The Church teaching on the (only) unforgivable sin:

CCC 1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
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