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  #301  
Old Apr 30, '12, 9:31 am
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Yes, he paid for his tux, dinner, gas (in our car), flowers, I guess. He has no $$ in savings, a part-time job making $8.25 for, at best, 20 hours a week, and is beginning to sell his personal belongings to generate money to be able to pay for a promise ring, a deposit on the apartment, a car, etc. He doesn't have much, I think he could generate @ $1000 for his computer (bought it on his own), maybe $300 for other hobby items he has. Not much.

He will give everything he has for this goal of living w/the GF.

He did say he wants us in his life, but that is our choice. Very casual, emotionally detached. Straight out of GF's mouth, it sounds.

DH and I have counseling today. You can tell we need it, right?
  #302  
Old Apr 30, '12, 9:37 am
aicirt aicirt is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Alabama, the most difficult and stressful things a person can go through are death, divorce, and moving. Please protect yourself and your husband. There really isn't anything you can do regarding son who will be turning 19 and is, therefore, a legal adult.

If having him around is causing hubby and you more stress, than cut your losses. If he is bringing you to the edge, figure out what you can afford, give him a couple of thousdand and tell him he needs to move now. He doesn't take your car. If he announces he's leaving earlier, let him. You need to stay calm for each other and the other children. If they are co-signing a lease, so be it. (Curious...who rents to two kids without income?....but not your problem).

Two things made me stop after seven years of depression: one, other child said the situation was making me ill (probably mentally I saw in his eyes what it was doing to him.....all attention on his brother. and two, my husband got sick. Stress does that. Yes, I do blame our son for this because he had been told often enough to stop treating us like dirt.

I had to cut the losses in order to survive and have a life.

Last edited by aicirt; Apr 30, '12 at 9:43 am. Reason: forgot something to be added
  #303  
Old Apr 30, '12, 9:42 am
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
Yes, he paid for his tux, dinner, gas (in our car), flowers, I guess. He has no $$ in savings, a part-time job making $8.25 for, at best, 20 hours a week, and is beginning to sell his personal belongings to generate money to be able to pay for a promise ring, a deposit on the apartment, a car, etc. He doesn't have much, I think he could generate @ $1000 for his computer (bought it on his own), maybe $300 for other hobby items he has. Not much.

He will give everything he has for this goal of living w/the GF.

He did say he wants us in his life, but that is our choice. Very casual, emotionally detached. Straight out of GF's mouth, it sounds.

DH and I have counseling today. You can tell we need it, right?
Yes, you need it, but you are still thinking straight, just in grief. Please take care of yourself, I saw on the other thread where you said you had lost 16 lbs since all this started. You need to eat right, get rest, try to have at least a little fun apart from being consumed with him. Try to detach from his choices - just remember, he's his own person and God is in control, not you.

I know your situation isn't the same, but this is the very same dynamic that families of alcoholics or drug addicts get caught up in. Everything comes to revolve around their drama, and all attention is focused on them, which enables them to continue using. Once you pull your attention away, he will be left with his choices. Then you will see what happens. It could go either way. I am glad that God has given you this move, to break the pattern of negative attention that he has got the whole family stuck in.
  #304  
Old Apr 30, '12, 9:45 am
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by aicirt View Post
Alabama, the most difficult and stressful things a person can go through are death, divorce, and moving. Please protect yourself and your husband. There really isn't anything you can do regarding son who will be turning 19 and is, therefore, a legal adult.

If having him around is causing hubby and you more stress, than cut your losses. If he is bringing you to the edge, figure out what you can afford, give him a couple of thousdand and tell him he needs to move now. He doesn't take your car. If he announces he's leaving earlier, let him. You need to stay calm for each other and the other children. If they are co-signing a lease, so be it. (Curious...who rents to two kids without income?....but not your problem).
yes, this is what I would do. I would sit down with hubby and discuss what we could give him, as a type of "parting gift." We would make sure he knew that there will be NOTHING else after that, period. His problems are his problems. But here is our last gift, because we love you. Like the Prodigal's father did, although not the entire inheritance.

Then wish him well, and cry some more, and start getting ready to move. His siblings are going to be 1) missing him and 2) very relieved that the drama isn't coming along to the new house.
  #305  
Old Apr 30, '12, 9:52 am
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Yes, we will probably give him money in his college fund, to ensure that he can at least get his 2nd year of school or some sort of certification. We are not giving him money or physical items. We would be helping if he was moving in with a couple of guys, but we can't help with the cohabitating.

It has never been easy to be a Christian family. It is not any easier to be one now, with the obvious pressures of a very secular, anti-God oriented culture swarming around us. We are trying to stay firm, but not loose our child, who has succumbed to it. I do feel sorry for him, I do think they really care for each other. He has just lost himself in it . . . yes, Real, much like a drug addict. The intensity of the whole thing has made us wonder, often, if there is drug use involved. Frankly, we don't see it, but we can't be 100% sure. And I am sure we will never know, but I don't think he would do drugs.

Anyway, we are going to have to step aside and let God have this one. It's out of our hands. I don't want to see him get hurt, but we can't stop this runaway train.
  #306  
Old Apr 30, '12, 10:07 am
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
Yes, we will probably give him money in his college fund, to ensure that he can at least get his 2nd year of school or some sort of certification. We are not giving him money or physical items. We would be helping if he was moving in with a couple of guys, but we can't help with the cohabitating.

It has never been easy to be a Christian family. It is not any easier to be one now, with the obvious pressures of a very secular, anti-God oriented culture swarming around us. We are trying to stay firm, but not loose our child, who has succumbed to it. I do feel sorry for him, I do think they really care for each other. He has just lost himself in it . . . yes, Real, much like a drug addict. The intensity of the whole thing has made us wonder, often, if there is drug use involved. Frankly, we don't see it, but we can't be 100% sure. And I am sure we will never know, but I don't think he would do drugs.

Anyway, we are going to have to step aside and let God have this one. It's out of our hands. I don't want to see him get hurt, but we can't stop this runaway train.
The drug is the sex hormones generated when they have sex. That's enough of an intoxicant to cause all sorts of problems. Our son acted like he was on drugs too. Rebellious, nasty, rude, cruel, even cutting himself at times. I think it was just the overwhelming strength of those hormones that are created by sexual intercourse. He said they were quite active during the summer when her parents weren't home.

Not to imply that drug use is out of the question. But you probably would have seen it by now.
  #307  
Old Apr 30, '12, 11:45 am
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Yes, that's exactly what it is, it is the hormones. It's exciting, it feels like love, he'll do anything to get to it. It really hurts to know that he'll give up everything to get to it . . . but you hear about men who leave their wife/children, or even hurt their families to get away from them to get what they need from a woman.

Everyone has told us he has to see this thing all of the way through to the end. We can't stop it, and, unless he had more self-control or a stronger drive/urgency, he won't be able to, either. At 18, he has a lot of years of hormones to go through before he reaches a lull, so this could take a very long time.

Someone offered the AA advice about supporting but not enabling. I need to look that up.
  #308  
Old Apr 30, '12, 12:06 pm
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
Yes, that's exactly what it is, it is the hormones. It's exciting, it feels like love, he'll do anything to get to it. It really hurts to know that he'll give up everything to get to it . . . but you hear about men who leave their wife/children, or even hurt their families to get away from them to get what they need from a woman.

Everyone has told us he has to see this thing all of the way through to the end. We can't stop it, and, unless he had more self-control or a stronger drive/urgency, he won't be able to, either. At 18, he has a lot of years of hormones to go through before he reaches a lull, so this could take a very long time.

Someone offered the AA advice about supporting but not enabling. I need to look that up.
It's Al-Anon that would help more than AA, since Al-Anon is for the family and friends of the alcoholic. And yes, we still love our -holic (mine is a workaholic) but we don't enable their addiction. At least, that is our challenge.

Look up the 12 Steps. It works for a lot of different problems.

1. We admitted we were powerless over (fill in the blank) —that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

The 12 Steps are very influenced by the Ignatian process of examination of conscience, and we as Catholics are very familiar with the 4th and 5th steps as they are similar to the preparation for Confession. Many -holics do choose to work their 5th Step with a priest, as a matter of fact.

You can find tons of literature on line, in used book stores and in thrift stores. Usually the co-dependent literature is helpful as well.
  #309  
Old Apr 30, '12, 2:00 pm
francisca francisca is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
I guess what I meant by the 'bad relationship' analogy is that DS wants to leave our home, but won't be the first to initiate it. We felt like we had to 'release' him so that he can go.
Now I get what you mean, after I re-read that post.

Quote:
I GF is right. If we could just change our perspective, it would all be allright. But to us, it isn't about religious doctrine, it's simply about what is right/wrong/following Christ. It's at our core.
Your son is going through the most difficult time in his life rightnow. Yes he is entering another family who are unbelievers. Your son and GF are still young and has a long long time in their future. Just do not see this as something final. Like Real said it's in God's hand, not in yours. The Lord will speak to him in His time. You may be able to speak to him about it again one day. Rightnow he is going through a crisis, he just can't listen. Please do not lose hope because of this.

Actually what you go through is something quite common : a man leave his parents to be with his wife is a bible teaching. Son's parents usually get bitter in the process, they get "startled" by the sudden change.

My mother in law (MIL), her sister told her that eversince her youngest son marry, he hasn't gave her the usual sum of money he always gave her (MIL's sister is a widow and has no income). MIL told her that "once your son marry, he's no longer your son. He has become 'a relative' to you". MIL doesn't read bible, but I find what she said to her sister is quite biblical and very very true. MIL's sister then decided to let (rent) out some rooms in her house so she can have some income. She has never brought the matter up to the son. The son never talked about it either, as if he's just completely forgotten that he used to routinely gave his old mother monthly sum of money.

Just hang on and remain positive so that eventhough now that he is with GF family, you can continue to have some contact with him and GF too. Surely you can't see him everyday anymore, but this is just something normal that you will get used to it.

Regarding faith: it takes a life time for a person to learn about his Maker. Your son is now low in his faith according to what we can see, but it doesn't mean The Lord has stopped loving him. Put your hope in His faithfulness, one day, in His time he will comeback to the faith. Pray for him and his GF too. Prayer is much stronger than our effort to get him "repent".

What's happening in your son's life is much more important than telling him what's moral/ not moral. Life and LOVE is much higher teaching than morality and religion. Our religious attitude without love is wrong. So at this difficult moment, you just have to spare him out of love, rather than keep on pushing him with some futile religious teaching.
__________________
In Him (Jesus) all the promises of God have come to be a YES, and we also say in his name : Amen! giving thanks to God. 2 Chorinthians 1:20.
  #310  
Old Apr 30, '12, 2:12 pm
francisca francisca is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
. . . but you hear about men who leave their wife/children, or even hurt their families to get away from them to get what they need from a woman.
If GF become son's wife, his case is more of biblical teaching (Genesis). The one you mention above is called "adultery". Huge difference, ArkansasMom.
__________________
In Him (Jesus) all the promises of God have come to be a YES, and we also say in his name : Amen! giving thanks to God. 2 Chorinthians 1:20.
  #311  
Old Apr 30, '12, 2:38 pm
aicirt aicirt is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

[quote=

Actually what you go through is something quite common : a man leave his parents to be with his wife is a bible teaching. Son's parents usually get bitter in the process, they get "startled" by the sudden change.

My mother in law (MIL), her sister told her that eversince her youngest son marry, he hasn't gave her the usual sum of money he always gave her (MIL's sister is a widow and has no income). MIL told her that [b]"once your son marry, he's no longer your son. He has become 'a relative' to you"[/b]. MIL doesn't read bible, but I find what she said to her sister is quite biblical and very very true.


I need to comment on the above:

1. He is leaving to shack-up. He is not leaving his parents to be with a wife.

2. He has no business doing either....shack-up nor marriage because he has nothing.

3. Bible teaching, "Man leaves his parents to be with his wife." And the wife? The gf isn't leaving Mommy to be with this guy. They're having him move in with them. Healthy?

4. Honor your father and your mother is the fourth Commandment. You commit a mortal sin by breaking it. It is not eradicated at the time of anyone's marriage. You don't have to love your parents. You are required to honor them.

5. "Son's parents usually get bitter in the process." Yes, when their are adherants to #3 and it gets shoved down their throats by word, deed, and attitude.

6. "They (man's parents) get startled by the sudden change." No, they're startled by the lack of respect from the gf or dil and they see it as an omen of things to come.

7. No, you are always your child's parents and he/she is always your child. There is no changing that hard fact. If your parents are in financial straights, you have a moral responsibility to offer reasonable assistance.
  #312  
Old May 1, '12, 12:19 pm
francisca francisca is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by aicirt View Post
I need to comment on the above:

1. He is leaving to shack-up. He is not leaving his parents to be with a wife.

2. He has no business doing either....shack-up nor marriage because he has nothing.

3. Bible teaching, "Man leaves his parents to be with his wife." And the wife? The gf isn't leaving Mommy to be with this guy. They're having him move in with them. Healthy?
I'd like to comment on no 3 first.

Genesis say "Man leaves his father and mother to be one with his wife". The verse doesn't mention that the wife leaves her parents. It says "Man leaves his parents".

Anyway, I should agree that AM son's GF isn't his wife yet according to our church traditon (and according to our modern culture)

Quote:
4. Honor your father and your mother is the fourth Commandment. You commit a mortal sin by breaking it. It is not eradicated at the time of anyone's marriage. You don't have to love your parents. You are required to honor them.
I agree.

Quote:
5. "Son's parents usually get bitter in the process." Yes, when their are adherants to #3 and it gets shoved down their throats by word, deed, and attitude.
I agree that son should honour his parents. I was not implying that because Genesis says what it says, then it's ok for sons to act rough and disrespectful to parents. No. I was saying that I saw examples of cases where men change their attitude and parents surprised at the change and become bitter. The changes are not necessarily like AM son. Not all family have difficulty with FIL MIL DIL SIL relation. In the example I mentioned about my MIL sister, she and DIL/son do not have any difficulty in communication. In fact their relation was good before the marriage and is still good until today. Surely we may have some prejudice that the wife forbid him to give the money, I can't say that's the case or not. It is possible that the son's priority shift, he was late, but then his mom suddenly has decided to make her own income, so he decided it's not necessary for him to give her any and say nothing about it. What I'm saying is I do see in some cases that man's priority do shift from parents to his own family after he marries, and am actually still get surprised again and again at how biblical some facts of life are.

Quote:
6. "They (man's parents) get startled by the sudden change." No, they're startled by the lack of respect from the gf or dil and they see it as an omen of things to come.
AM's son is a teen. I am not defending him, I understand that teen sex is extremely difficult situatuion for both parents and children.

Some teen sex generate bitterness at both sides of parents that may transfer to their children. Parents of each side sometimes quarrel among themselves resulting in multiple-way-complication. They decide it's better to end it all at all cost including abortion and divorce and heartborken-ness that last for a long long time.

Quote:
7. No, you are always your child's parents and he/she is always your child. There is no changing that hard fact. If your parents are in financial straights, you have a moral responsibility to offer reasonable assistance.
I agree.
What my MIL said to her sister was to give her understanding that her son has his own priorities now.
__________________
In Him (Jesus) all the promises of God have come to be a YES, and we also say in his name : Amen! giving thanks to God. 2 Chorinthians 1:20.
  #313  
Old May 1, '12, 12:37 pm
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

If my son was a mature adult who was getting married, I would be able to accept it when he transitioned into his new life as a husband.

My son is in a rebellious, dramatic, sexually-charged teenage relationship with a young woman who is also very rebellious, has serious 'authority' issues, and is very controlling and manipulative. Yes, my son allows himself to be controlled. They have a great deal of drama 'pushing against' us and our rules. It is time for 'us' to be out of the equation so they can move on with 'them,' and find out who and what they are together without the binding glue of rebellion and angst.

We are moving. We are leaving. We have asked him to come with us, he has chosen to stay with his GF. We love him, he loves us, he has made a choice we don't care for, but we will be fair in providing for him before we leave, and then we will leave him to take care of himself as an adult.

And, for the first time since it all began, I feel like God has, strangely, taken the anger and angst out of my heart. I didn't move it out, I want to hold on to it, but, strangely, it is gone. A gift of Grace. I have to just let this go. There is nothing more that I can do. (Thanks for the 12 steps, Real, it helped a good deal!)

I went food shopping last night and woke up hungry. I never eat because I have been so stressed out (I have lost 16 lbs. since this all started, and I was already thin before then) and I woke up hungry. I have woken up at 4:30 a.m. for the past six months, with my brow crinkled with worry. I didn't this morning. I have a peace that surpasses all understanding, and I know that God gave it to me.

Why? Because all day yesterday, as I was praying, the Lord kept saying, "Step aside and let me take over." And I did. I have done all that I can, I can do no more. My DH and I told DS that we will not get in their way of moving in, we won't bring our displeasure up again, we will let him go. DS said, "Why didn't you do this three weeks ago?" I received a scathing e-mail last night from GF in response to a big conversation we had night before last with DS. Come to find out, DS let her listen on his cellphone while we talked! Unbelievable breach of a confidential, parental conversation. GF was mad, brutal in her communication, and told us we were emotionally abusing our son. (Because we were telling him that we didn't like what he was doing w/moving in.) I am not even planning to respond. I am no longer meant to be in their drama. I need to be emotionally out of the drama until we are physically out of the picture. And then the relationship will be theirs to grow and develop, but we aren't going to fuel the drama anymore. Maybe her mom can take over now. Or maybe it will wither and die from lack of fire. I can't even begin to predict.

It is time for us to move forward with our other two children. It is time for DS and GF to move forward and find out if there is anything more to their relationship than rebellion and drama.

I'm going to go eat lunch now!!
  #314  
Old May 1, '12, 12:57 pm
aicirt aicirt is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Arkansas Mom....glad you have found peace and heard His voice. When you hear and say, "May the Peace of the Lord be with you." it will have a deeper meaning having experienced it.

Happy for your peace.
  #315  
Old May 1, '12, 2:18 pm
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
If my son was a mature adult who was getting married, I would be able to accept it when he transitioned into his new life as a husband.

My son is in a rebellious, dramatic, sexually-charged teenage relationship with a young woman who is also very rebellious, has serious 'authority' issues, and is very controlling and manipulative. Yes, my son allows himself to be controlled. They have a great deal of drama 'pushing against' us and our rules. It is time for 'us' to be out of the equation so they can move on with 'them,' and find out who and what they are together without the binding glue of rebellion and angst.

We are moving. We are leaving. We have asked him to come with us, he has chosen to stay with his GF. We love him, he loves us, he has made a choice we don't care for, but we will be fair in providing for him before we leave, and then we will leave him to take care of himself as an adult.

And, for the first time since it all began, I feel like God has, strangely, taken the anger and angst out of my heart. I didn't move it out, I want to hold on to it, but, strangely, it is gone. A gift of Grace. I have to just let this go. There is nothing more that I can do. (Thanks for the 12 steps, Real, it helped a good deal!)

I went food shopping last night and woke up hungry. I never eat because I have been so stressed out (I have lost 16 lbs. since this all started, and I was already thin before then) and I woke up hungry. I have woken up at 4:30 a.m. for the past six months, with my brow crinkled with worry. I didn't this morning. I have a peace that surpasses all understanding, and I know that God gave it to me.

Why? Because all day yesterday, as I was praying, the Lord kept saying, "Step aside and let me take over." And I did. I have done all that I can, I can do no more. My DH and I told DS that we will not get in their way of moving in, we won't bring our displeasure up again, we will let him go. DS said, "Why didn't you do this three weeks ago?" I received a scathing e-mail last night from GF in response to a big conversation we had night before last with DS. Come to find out, DS let her listen on his cellphone while we talked! Unbelievable breach of a confidential, parental conversation. GF was mad, brutal in her communication, and told us we were emotionally abusing our son. (Because we were telling him that we didn't like what he was doing w/moving in.) I am not even planning to respond. I am no longer meant to be in their drama. I need to be emotionally out of the drama until we are physically out of the picture. And then the relationship will be theirs to grow and develop, but we aren't going to fuel the drama anymore. Maybe her mom can take over now. Or maybe it will wither and die from lack of fire. I can't even begin to predict.

It is time for us to move forward with our other two children. It is time for DS and GF to move forward and find out if there is anything more to their relationship than rebellion and drama.

I'm going to go eat lunch now!!


Very happy that God has given you that peace, and that your body's natural hunger has returned. I will keep you in my prayers. The 12 Steps are an amazing tool, for alcoholics and just about all the rest of us. They can be applied to just about any problem including our children's poor decisions.



I'd buy you lunch if I could!!!
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