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  #196  
Old Apr 24, '12, 11:00 am
Anna Scott's Avatar
Anna Scott Anna Scott is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
. . . .My assurance is based on Gods Grace just as yours. . . .
highrigger1,

Claiming assurance of salvation involves judging your own soul, which none of us have the authority to do.

Remember, Jesus did not even give the Apostles assurance of salvation. In sending out the Apostles, Jesus told them of the coming persecution they would face and he said, "the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Matthew 10:
16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.


Peace,
Anna
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  #197  
Old Apr 24, '12, 12:59 pm
highrigger1 highrigger1 is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by Anna Scott View Post
John,
What more do you want? I want you to acknowledge there are many factors in salvation such as God's Grace; faith; loving God with your heart mind and soul; loving your neighbor as yourself; Baptism; The Lord's Supper/Holy Eucharist; Perseverance, bearing good fruit, etc.

Peace,
Anna
anna,

Of course but one who loves and trusts God to keep His promises to always forgive when we ask. That is our assurance of salvation. That of course includes Gods Grace and our faith and loving God.

It does not include following Gods Law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" because no one does that. That is why we need Gods Grace, so we can be saved by God Grace via our faith and trust.

Peace, JohnR
  #198  
Old Apr 24, '12, 1:05 pm
highrigger1 highrigger1 is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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=Anna Scott;9220781]highrigger1,

Claiming assurance of salvation involves judging your own soul, which none of us have the authority to do.
anna,
Of course it does not mean that at all. It means trusting the promises of Christ to always forgive us when we ask. We should live a life of continuing repentance. That is the basis of our assurance. If we doubt our salvation is it a lack of faith in the promises of Gods Grace.

Quote:
=Remember, Jesus did not even give the Apostles assurance of salvation. In sending out the Apostles, Jesus told them of the coming persecution they would face and he said, "the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Matthew 10:
16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Endure in ones faith and trust in Christs promises of course. What else is there to endure about? But again faith and trust in Christs promises is our assurance of our salvation.Why not? Are the promises true? Of course they are so we may count and trust in them and in Gods love and forgiveness. Right? Why should we not? Not to do so is a lack of faith.

We put our faith in Christ and He is our assurance. Why not? Peace, JohnR
  #199  
Old Apr 24, '12, 1:16 pm
fhansen fhansen is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
anna,

Of course but one who loves and trusts God to keep His promises to always forgive when we ask. That is our assurance of salvation. That of course includes Gods Grace and our faith and loving God.

It does not include following Gods Law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" because no one does that. That is why we need Gods Grace, so we can be saved by God Grace via our faith and trust.

Peace, JohnR
Yes, it does mean following God's law. That's the meaning of Matt 25:31-46, Mark 10:17, Rom 2:13, Gal 6:7-10, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, etc. Love is the entire goal, BTW, it actually constitutes the justice of man, that which his integrity consists of, that which makes him whole/holy-ready for heaven, capable of "seeing" God. Anything less means we still don't have our sights set on Him above all else.
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  #200  
Old Apr 24, '12, 1:20 pm
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
Anna,

Jesus taught repent and believe. Along with that He asked us to baptise others into the church and remember Him via His body and blood. He asked us to trust Gods love and forgiveness and seek to follow Gods Law.

What more do you want? Peace, JohnR
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Originally Posted by Anna Scott View Post
John,
What more do you want? I want you to acknowledge there are many factors in salvation such as God's Grace; faith; loving God with your heart mind and soul; loving your neighbor as yourself; Baptism; The Lord's Supper/Holy Eucharist; Perseverance, bearing good fruit, etc.

Peace,
Anna
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Originally Posted by Anna Scott View Post
highrigger1,

Claiming assurance of salvation involves judging your own soul, which none of us have the authority to do.

Remember, Jesus did not even give the Apostles assurance of salvation. In sending out the Apostles, Jesus told them of the coming persecution they would face and he said, "the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Matthew 10:
16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.


Peace,
Anna
Quote:
Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
Of course but one who loves and trusts God to keep His promises to always forgive when we ask. That is our assurance of salvation. That of course includes Gods Grace and our faith and loving God.
Please support your claim regarding assurance of salvation. Holy Scripture would be a good place to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
It does not include following Gods Law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" because no one does that. That is why we need Gods Grace, so we can be saved by God Grace via our faith and trust.
John,

Seriously? Are we reading the same Bible?

You still have not responded to my posts regarding the following:

1. Claiming assurance of salvation involves judging your own soul, which none of us have the authority to do.

2. The role of Baptism, The Lord's Supper/Holy Eucharist, and Perseverance in salvation.

3. The fact that Jesus did not even give the Apostles assurance of salvation. In sending out the Apostles, Jesus told them of the coming persecution they would face and he said, "the one who endures to the end will be saved."

4. Loving God with all your heart, mind, and soul. (You've ruled out loving your neighbor--still need a source for that dismissal.)

Peace,
Anna
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  #201  
Old Apr 24, '12, 9:43 pm
jcrichton jcrichton is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
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Originally Posted by jcrichton
If you pay close attention this is an example not of pluralism but of correct worship (akin to Cain and Abel); one person thinks of himself as righteous and needs nothing but his drum which he aptly drums... the other person knows that he is a sinner and must account to God for his faults... further, there was no Church for them to go to as Jesus had not concluded His Stay.
jcricton,

You must think the rules changed after he died?
Yes... didn't you hear it?, Christ Commanded that the Church go onto the world (not just Israel anymore) to preach Salvation (Gospel: Good News) to all and Baptize them in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit... the Old Testament (Covenant) economy passed away:

Quote:
20 'Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, though you say that Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.' 21 Jesus said: Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know; for salvation comes from the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming -- indeed is already here -- when true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth. (St. John 4:20-24)
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Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
Quote:
...oh yeah... I forgot: "forgive us as we forgive..." sounds like we can go directly to God doesn't it... however, the clause is "as we forgive;" if the Priest is superflous so is the Church... so Christ must have had it wrong then?
The priest is superflous as there were no priests in the NT church. But the Church is us as Paul explains.
...wow... our Bibles are truly different... here's the establishment of the Priesthood:

Quote:
15 But I have special confidence in writing on some points to you, to refresh your memories, because of the grace that was given to me by God. 16 I was given grace to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the gentiles, dedicated to offer them the gospel of God, so that gentiles might become an acceptable offering, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 15:15-16)

1 Here is a saying that you can rely on: to want to be a presiding elder is to desire a noble task. 2 That is why the presiding elder must have an impeccable character. Husband of one wife, he must be temperate, discreet and courteous, hospitable and a good teacher... 8 Similarly, deacons must be respectable, not double-tongued, moderate in the amount of wine they drink and with no squalid greed for money.

1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach... 8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; (1 Timothy 3:1-8--KJV for comparison also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
Quote:
Christ did not institute His Church so that we can have just another option... that is a rendering of those who seek to be their own authority... once there was one Gospel and one Church... now everybody is a theologean and a scholar who can determine what God really meant... ergo:
We are the church. There is no other option.
True enough... but only if we are part of the One Body (2 Corinthians 11:4; Ephesians 3:6; Philippians 1:27; Romans 12:5; 1 Corinthians 10:17; 12:13, 27; Ephesians 4:4; Colossians 3:15); but the problem is that when every Christian determines for his/herself what constitutes Gospel, Faith, Fellowship, Love, Worship... Christ's Body is not only divided but on a constant state of war... once there was Luther and Calvin and their cronies... today the schisms have a life of their own and there's no end in sight as each "Believer" seeks to appease his/her ego reinventing Christ's Church in his/her own image and likeness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
Quote:
Quote:
...there's an established Church depicted in the above passages... though quite rudimentary, the Church's focus and center point is:
18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world, 19 and for their sake I consecrate myself so that they too may be consecrated in truth. 20 I pray not only for these but also for those who through their teaching will come to believe in me. 21 May they all be one, just as, Father, you are in me and I am in you, so that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe it was you who sent me. 22 I have given them the glory you gave to me, that they may be one as we are one. 23 With me in them and you in me, may they be so perfected in unity that the world will recognise that it was you who sent me and that you have loved them as you have loved me. (St. John 17:18-23)
Yes and it is us. Not just you. You cannot support that.

Peace, JohnR
...again, JohnR, "us" as the Body only works if "us" are defined by Christ's Gospel and the Church He established... once someone starts preaching a different Gospel, one that rejects Scriptures and the Church established by Christ... he/she is no longer part of the Body... a "Christian" group/church whose principals reject Christ and His Church is deep in rampant error!

My statement is based on Scriptures just check the above passage (St. John 17:18-23): we are called by Christ to Be One in HIM... Christianity is not a pluralistic existence where majority rules or where the "in/hot/cool" clicks determines what's "in" and what's "out;" Christianity is an existence in submission to God in the One Body: Christ Jesus!

Maran atha!

Angel
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  #202  
Old Apr 24, '12, 10:29 pm
jcrichton jcrichton is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
jcrichton,

I never said it was just quoting scripture. Where did you get that idea?
My assurance is based on Gods Grace just as yours. So it sounds like you do rely on your assurance as I do.
...sorry, I do tend to go with past experiences... as far as I can tell most people who hold on to "assurance of Salvation" do not find it in Christ but in the content of the Scriptures ('...see, here's that passage: we're Saved!')...

...my assurance is Christ: I am nothing without Him (no amount of Sacred Scriptures can Save me unless I abide in Him so that He may Abide in me); I carry a Crucifix not because I think nothing can harm me if I have it on me (which is pure superstition)... but because I am reminded of His Sacrifice for my Salvation... so my assurance is what I know He did for me (humanity) not what is written in Scriptures... it is the same argument St. Paul put forth... if a person relies on the Law to obtain Salvation he/she is rejecting/putting aside God's Grace: Christ Jesus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
Dont you think His sadness came because the man did not realize he needed to repent? that he thought he already met Gods Law? Then Jesus had to remind him that required that he give up all that he had for the benefit of others who had nothing. He of course would not do that just as we do not. The man could not recognize how he had failed Gods Law and so could not deal with Jesus.

Peace, JohnR
...the Call is to Walk with Jesus (1 St. John 1 and 2); the rich man (as most of us) simply stopped at observing the Commandments (worship God, do no harm...) but he could not relinquish his "self" (ego) and couldn't hear beyong "give up wealth and comfort." It is the same today... many seek a "gentler and kindler" God who assures everyones Salvation even against their own wills, a special brand of both theology where God Saves everyone that can quote Scriptures... no matter what!

...perhaps you and I are simply expressing the same concern in different vocabulary since you, as I, agree that Salvation is more than acquiescing to the letter of the Law (obey the dos and don'ts), that it also requires repentence and return to God and that we must relinquish "self" and abide in Christ...

Maran atha!

Angel
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  #203  
Old Apr 24, '12, 10:37 pm
jcrichton jcrichton is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
anna,

Of course but one who loves and trusts God to keep His promises to always forgive when we ask. That is our assurance of salvation. That of course includes Gods Grace and our faith and loving God.

It does not include following Gods Law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" because no one does that. That is why we need Gods Grace, so we can be saved by God Grace via our faith and trust.

Peace, JohnR
...JohnR, but it must include it! I cannot claim to love God Whom I have never seen while hating man (mankind) who is right next to me... I have to employ the golden rule: Love Yahweh God above all with all my strength, heart, mind... and my neighbor as myself... Jesus clearly Teaches that the fullness of the Law (10 Commandments) is found on these two!

Maran atha!

Angel
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  #204  
Old May 1, '12, 1:19 pm
fbl9 fbl9 is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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To fbl9, I try to answer the posts chronologically. Romans 11:22 is no problem at all and will be answered soon, with proper context as it should be. It is really an all about God theology.

In God's Grace, OldProf
hi oldprof is now too soon.
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  #205  
Old May 1, '12, 3:59 pm
mackbrislawn mackbrislawn is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by highrigger1 View Post
anna,

Of course but one who loves and trusts God to keep His promises to always forgive when we ask. That is our assurance of salvation. That of course includes Gods Grace and our faith and loving God.

It does not include following Gods Law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" because no one does that. That is why we need Gods Grace, so we can be saved by God Grace via our faith and trust.

Peace, JohnR
Agreed.

But what is it that God forgives when we ask? I would think He forgives us because we didn't follow His Law. But you say it does not include following God's Law. So what does He forgive us for, if not following His Law?
  #206  
Old May 1, '12, 4:59 pm
fhansen fhansen is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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Originally Posted by mackbrislawn View Post
Agreed.

But what is it that God forgives when we ask? I would think He forgives us because we didn't follow His Law. But you say it does not include following God's Law. So what does He forgive us for, if not following His Law?
God continuously offers forgivenss, but He still expects us to ‘go, and sin no more’. The difference between the Old and New Covenants is that, in the new, we’re not merely forgiven but also offered the grace to become who He created us to be, to ‘sin no more’. From the CCC:

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

1962 The Old Law is the first stage of revealed Law. Its moral prescriptions are summed up in the Ten Commandments. The precepts of the Decalogue lay the foundations for the vocation of man fashioned in the image of God; they prohibit what is contrary to the love of God and neighbor and prescribe what is essential to it. The Decalogue is a light offered to the conscience of every man to make God's call and ways known to him and to protect him against evil:
God wrote on the tables of the Law what men did not read in their hearts.13

1963 According to Christian tradition, the Law is holy, spiritual, and good,14 yet still imperfect. Like a tutor15 it shows what must be done, but does not of itself give the strength, the grace of the Spirit, to fulfill it. Because of sin, which it cannot remove, it remains a law of bondage. According to St. Paul, its special function is to denounce and disclose sin, which constitutes a "law of concupiscence" in the human heart.16 However, the Law remains the first stage on the way to the kingdom. It prepares and disposes the chosen people and each Christian for conversion and faith in the Savior God. It provides a teaching which endures for ever, like the Word of God.

1965 The New Law or the Law of the Gospel is the perfection here on earth of the divine law, natural and revealed. It is the work of Christ and is expressed particularly in the Sermon on the Mount. It is also the work of the Holy Spirit and through him it becomes the interior law of charity: "I will establish a New Covenant with the house of Israel. . . . I will put my laws into their hands, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."19

1965 The New Law or the Law of the Gospel is the perfection here on earth of the divine law, natural and revealed. It is the work of Christ and is expressed particularly in the Sermon on the Mount. It is also the work of the Holy Spirit and through him it becomes the interior law of charity: "I will establish a New Covenant with the house of Israel. . . . I will put my laws into their hands, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."19

1966 The New Law is the grace of the Holy Spirit given to the faithful through faith in Christ. It works through charity; it uses the Sermon on the Mount to teach us what must be done and makes use of the sacraments to give us the grace to do it:
If anyone should meditate with devotion and perspicacity on the sermon our Lord gave on the mount, as we read in the Gospel of Saint Matthew, he will doubtless find there . . . the perfect way of the Christian life. . . . This sermon contains . . . all the precepts needed to shape one's life.20

1967 The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection.21 In the Beatitudes, the New Law fulfills the divine promises by elevating and orienting them toward the "kingdom of heaven." It is addressed to those open to accepting this new hope with faith - the poor, the humble, the afflicted, the pure of heart, those persecuted on account of Christ and so marks out the surprising ways of the Kingdom.

1968 The Law of the Gospel fulfills the commandments of the Law. The Lord's Sermon on the Mount, far from abolishing or devaluing the moral prescriptions of the Old Law, releases their hidden potential and has new demands arise from them: it reveals their entire divine and human truth. It does not add new external precepts, but proceeds to reform the heart, the root of human acts, where man chooses between the pure and the impure,22 where faith, hope, and charity are formed and with them the other virtues. The Gospel thus brings the Law to its fullness through imitation of the perfection of the heavenly Father, through forgiveness of enemies and prayer for persecutors, in emulation of the divine generosity.23

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  #207  
Old May 4, '12, 3:18 am
OldProf OldProf is offline
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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hi oldprof is now too soon.
I detect your patience is growing thin. I will certainly try hard to provide some overdue responses to your questions and others this evening and tomorrow. My work schedule has been very hectic with several projects due near the end of April and first part of May. If you know people who want to go into electrical engineering, I would suggest power systems, as most of the engineers in that field are like me, old guys with gray hair!

Peace in Christ, OldProf
  #208  
Old May 4, '12, 9:30 am
fbl9 fbl9 is offline
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I detect your patience is growing thin. I will certainly try hard to provide some overdue responses to your questions and others this evening and tomorrow. My work schedule has been very hectic with several projects due near the end of April and first part of May. If you know people who want to go into electrical engineering, I would suggest power systems, as most of the engineers in that field are like me, old guys with gray hair!

Peace in Christ, OldProf
thanks. not worried like i said is now too soon and i guess it is/was. later it shall be.
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  #209  
Old May 5, '12, 12:52 pm
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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I pointed out in my post several places in the Gospels where Jesus himself speaks of those who fall away. I’m sure that you did not “snip” that section above for any reason other than space, but when we discuss assurance, these passages must be taken into account. For that reason, I repeat what I posted in my earlier post.

Scripture supports that there are people in the world today who believe they are good Christians and are "saved" etc, but who are going to wind up being condemned even though they prophesied and cast our demons and cry Lord Lord (Mt 7:21-23). There are those who are going to receive the word with joy but then fall away (Mt 13:20-21). There are those who will seek to enter and will not be able (Luke 13:24).
So - while we can easily say that the "Lord Lord" crowd might be the deceivers, what of those who receive the word with joy but have no root? What of those who try to enter the narrow door but are unable? Did God not start a good work in them? Did they not believe that they were "saved" and "born again"?

Now - as a systematic theology type, - and I want to emphasize this part strongly - I have no doubt but that you realize that when two seemingly contradictory views can produce Scriptural evidence to support their case, it is necessary to take ALL of the factors into account - not to prove one or the other right or wrong, but rather to arrive together at a fuller understanding of Truth.

So - allow me to propose this. Jesus said that the path is narrow that leads to salvation. In this image we can see the possibility, if we are not careful, of getting too far off line to the right or to the left. the person who puts too little trust in God's promises (assurances) runs the risk of falling into the despair, of failing to see God as ever being able to forgive them, or that they are ever "good enough" to get into heaven so they give up ever trying. On the other hand, the person who puts too much emphasis on "assurance" runs the risk of becoming complacent and fail to bear fruit and so end up being among those who are condemned crying, "Lord lord, did we not...", or asking, "Lord when did we see you..."

Two extremes - either one of which can get one off of the narrow path and into the ditch.
For this reason Scripture provides evidences to engender both Joy AND Perseverance, Confidence AND Caution.
Well, as the systematic theology type, I realize that God does not contradict Himself nor is He the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33). If any contradiction happened, then we could realistically point to 1000+ errors in the Scriptures and find it difficult to really pick and choose what is true. It would be subjective. I don’t think I’m speaking to anyone on this forum who accepts that the Bible has errors or contradictions. But, if so, then just know there are great reasons to believe the Bible is an indestructible book, the anvil which has broken all the hammers ever brought against it.

That said, we come back to the assurance of salvation. Is it taught in the Bible? Yes, as I’ve shown earlier, 1 John 5:13, in full context with the entire letter, says, “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.” ESV

So John says I/we can know.

What must I believe in? Of course, that is of utmost importance. What evidence is there that I am indeed one of the elect of God, or one of the sheep that will never perish? So we are to examine ourselves (2 Cor 13:5) to make sure we are in the faith, we are to test all things (1 Thess 5:21), to know Him and be known by Him (John 10:14-15), and we are to believe in Jesus Christ as revealed in the Scriptures. He is our Savior, which simply means we are not to trust in our own works, but trust in the works performed by and finished by Jesus on our behalf. The “short” Gospel we are to believe is given in 1 Cor 15:3-5, so we MUST believe in the right Jesus. A Mormon and Jehovah’s Witness have a false Jesus, so their belief is based on a Jesus who never existed. John the Baptist says, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 KJV. The verses you’ve quoted above can describe that false assurance.

Notice what Jesus said about going to heaven. In John 14:1-4, Jesus describes what He will prepare for His disciples, and indicates they know where He is going. But they don’t! Thomas asks the question we should all ask Jesus and Jesus answers (John 14:5-6). “Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Jesus is THE WAY. You MUST believe in the right Jesus. If you believe in the right Jesus, then you are a sheep of His, one of His elect, and one who will never be lost. Proof? Check out these verses: John 9:1 thru 10:30, full context of Jesus sheep, and John 6:37-40, context that God selects the followers and Jesus will never lose one of them.

If you believe in the right Jesus, you can have assurance. He took the punishment for your sins (Gal 1:4, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 John 4:10). If you are trusting in Jesus + your own good works, then you will never have assurance because you will see yourself as always falling short of the standard of perfection (Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48 KJV).

You don't want to face Jesus as judge someday and have Him say, "Didn't you read my book?" Know Jesus from what His book says about Him, and believe in Him.

In Christ, OldProf
  #210  
Old May 5, '12, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: Assurance of Salvation

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OldProf #209
If you are trusting in Jesus + your own good works, then you will never have assurance because you will see yourself as always falling short of the standard of perfection (Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48
Of course that’s the error – “we” cannot have “assurance”, but we can, and should, have hope. Only His Church can interpret Her Sacred Scriptures and infallibly declare the fullness of His truth.

As James teaches: “Faith without works is dead.” (See Jam 2:14-26).

“All, of us have a scrutiny to undergo before Christ’s judgment-seat, for each to reap what his mortal life has earned, good or ill, according to his deeds.” (2 Cor 5:10).

God “will award to every man what his acts have deserved.” (Rom 2:6).

“The apostle notes that ‘there is a graciousness, then, in God, and there is also severity. His severity is for those who have fallen away, his graciousness is for thee, only so long as thou dost continue in His grace; if not, thou too shall be shalt be pruned away’ (Rom 11:22). Paul wrote this to people who were already ‘saved’, in a state of grace – a grace they could lose, becoming ‘unsaved’.”

“Consider Romans 5:2: ‘We are confident in the hope of attaining glory as the sons of God.’ If we….are now sure of heaven, and know nothing can deprive us of it, then we have no reason to hope because we know that heaven is ours. But ‘our salvation is founded on the hope of something’ says Paul. ‘Hope would not be hope at all if its object were in view; how could man still hope for something which he sees?’ (Rom 8:24). We hope for heaven, however well disposed we might be spiritually, because we know we still have a chance to lose it.” [Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, Ignatius 1988, p 174-5].

“All, of us have a scrutiny to undergo before Christ’s judgment-seat, for each to reap what his mortal life has earned, good or ill, according to his deeds.” (2 Cor 5:10).

St. Paul says also, "through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places (Eph 3:10)." The Church teaches even the angels! This is with the authority of Christ! We are redeemed by Christ’s Passion and Death (heaven was opened); we are not saved until we co-operate with Him.

“Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling.” (Phil 2:12).

St Paul is very clear: “I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of His Body which is the Church.” (Col. 1:24). What is lacking in Christ’s suffering is precisely what only we can do – take up our cross and suffer, repent and ask forgiveness, following the dictates of our conscience.

Jesus redeemed us (opened Heaven), we have to play our part. If anyone was to be saved your way it would have been Paul! But he clearly showed the error of that: “But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.” (1Cor 9:27). And again: “Wherefore he who thinks that he stands, let him take heed lest he fall.” (1 Cor 10:12). Yet again, “And we exhort you not to receive the grace of God in vain.” (2 Cor 6:1).

“It is not those who say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Mt 7:21).
When asked “What must I do to have eternal life?” Jesus answered, “Keep the commandments.” (Mt 19:16-17).
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