If the Church has troubles, how do we deal with them?

[Big_Feet]

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

Pray

Agreed! And I rest assured that God won't allow the Church to go astray.

[TrueLight]

Originally Posted by Big_Feet

Agreed! And I rest assured that God won't allow the Church to go astray.

The Bible says the gates of hell shall not prevail. I don't think that means the
Church will never go astray. All one needs to do is look at history.

[ConstantineTG]

Originally Posted by CarloMagnus

That's just only obvious. I'm asking for the practical. The logical, reasonable approach to dealing with matters. I don't want to repeat the question.

-Karl

Praying is not practical?

[Big_Feet]

Originally Posted by TrueLight

The Bible says the gates of hell shall not prevail. I don't think that means the
Church will never go astray. All one needs to do is look at history.

1st - I was not quoting or trying to quote the bible. I was stating my belief and obedience to the Church. I will follow her in all things except sin, which I am confident that she will not lead me.
2nd - understood about history, but has it not ALWAYS been 'righted'? Every time it has varried from the straight and narrow path that God intends, it gets back on track, usually pretty quickly.

[Big_Feet]

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

Praying is not practical?

My thoughts exactly when I saw this comment!

[CarloMagnus]

Man, coming here asking a simple question is like Kevin Klein's disposable clothes.

I'm beginning to think that few people here actually know if the Church has any troubles at all. And then you all mix up the questions, come up with some other garbage and then claim it's "my" problem. I'm sure the guys going to bars having drinks are definitely going to Church for that bit.


-Karl

[ConstantineTG]

Originally Posted by CarloMagnus

Man, coming here asking a simple question is like Kevin Klein's disposable clothes.

I'm beginning to think that few people here actually know if the Church has any troubles at all. And then you all mix up the questions, come up with some other garbage and then claim it's "my" problem. I'm sure the guys going to bars having drinks are definitely going to Church for that bit.


-Karl

Why do you not think that praying is THE solution? Resorting to God is what Christianity is all about. "Rest your burden upon me".

[choliks]

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

Why do you not think that praying is THE solution? Resorting to God is what Christianity is all about. "Rest your burden upon me".

I agree with ConstantineTG. I can only pray and trust in the Lord.

I am more than a thousand miles from the troubles in the diocese of Madison. It's also beyond my home diocese. What can I do?

[Giuseppe Gavino]

Originally Posted by CarloMagnus

Pax tecum,

How many people on here think about doing what's good for the Church?

Can't speak for anyone else but myself so I couldn't tell you.

Originally Posted by CarloMagnus

Do you carefully ponder if what you think about what is truly good for the Church truly means that it's good for the Church?

All the time.

Originally Posted by CarloMagnus

Do you examine the things that harm the Church?

Are you talking about the things I think harm the Church or the things that are actually harming the Church?

Originally Posted by CarloMagnus

Do you recognize them?

No not always.

Originally Posted by CarloMagnus

And if you do, what are you doing about it?

Well if these things have been verified as being harmful then I do everything I can to stay away from them.

[zab]

Originally Posted by JRKH

Well from one wall to another....

Why don't you just get whatever it is off of your chest....

Peace
James

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by CarloMagnus

Pax tecum,

How many people on here think about doing what's good for the Church? Do you carefully ponder if what you think about what is truly good for the Church truly means that it's good for the Church? Do you examine the things that harm the Church? Do you recognize them? And if you do, what are you doing about it?

I've been asking myself these questions as of late, and I would to hear some different opinions.

-Karl

Son -- I've gone through this thread three times and I still have no clue what you want. To be honest, you sound as if you're trying to lead an orchestra when you are still learning to play the recorder. What I mean is that you're trying to lead all of us, but you're not sure yourself where you want to lead or how to lead.

You say that you're not getting the responses that you're looking for. OK, let's begin there. Leadership is not about getting responses for which I'm looking. Trust me, I've been superior of three houses and soon to be a general superior. Leadership is about getting responses to your questions. Some of them are going to be complete surprises.

You ask, how many think about what's good for the Church. There is a problem with this question. The Church exists on every continent with more than one billion members. Unless one is sitting in Peter's chair, where one is getting the big picture, everyone can think, but no one can really say what's good for the Church, because at the end of the day, all of us would be responding from our limited experience, not from a global experience as the man who sits in the big chair and gets the reports from around the world.

If you want to lead people to think about what is good, I strongly suggest that you select something that is common to the people with whom you're speaking For example, when I'm speaking to my brothers about the good of the Church, I'm not thinking about everyone on CAF or every Catholic in the world. My brothers don't know everyone on CAF or every Catholic. They will never come in contact with these folks. My brothers know the immigrant poor, the unborn child and his parents, the chronically and terminally ill, the abandoned senior and the disabled person without a voice.

When I want to know what is good for the Church I state the question in the context that they operate. For example, "What can more can we do for the immigrant poor in the Church?" By addressing a very specific need, we'er making our contribution to the good of the whole. I lead my brothers to identify observable things that they can do for this target population.

You need to do the same here. You need to pick something that is common to all of us and then direct the question to that point. "What can we do for X that will help the Church?" If you put it that way, you'll be able to lead. If you ask what are we thinking about, you're going to get as many responses as there are readers. You will have more than you can handle.

You're asking people what they're doing about things that harm the Church? Thomas a Kempis wrote that at the end of time, the only person standing in judgment at your trial is you; therefore, you should not worry about what the other person is doing, but about what you're doing. Because you can only see the actions of the other, but you do not know the intent or the heart of the other.

In other words, you're probably asking a question that you should not be asking, unless you have the authority to do so. Otherwise, you're invading other people's privacy. Good leaders do not invade, they invite. They usually begin by saying, "I do A, B and C when I see this problem. It works for me and I thought I'd share it with you." Then he leaves the floor open for people to ask for more information or for people to share what they do. Observe, he never asked them to do so. He invited by initiating.

I hope this helps you formulate what you want in a more concise and useful manner.

Fraternally,


Br. JR, FFV

[Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Big_Feet

Agreed! And I rest assured that God won't allow the Church to go astray.

You are absolutely right. The Church will never go astray. But that does not mean that the people in the Church will not go astray. Witness Martin Luther and many other heretics down through history. Our Lord warned us in Matt 7:15:

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Jude 4:

For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men, turning the grace of our Lord God into riotousness, and denying the only sovereign Ruler, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those are only two verses out of many that warn us to always test the spirits. There are many other places in the Bible that give this same warning. I've been taken in more than once by those who seem very orthodox, then turn out to be anything but.

One thing I do hang my hat on is that the Pope can never be wrong in faith or morals. We have had some terrible popes down through our 2000 year history, but they have never misled the Church on faith or morals. A pope can be a great sinner, but the Holy Spirit will never allow him to lead the church astray. That, unfortunately, is not true for everyone else in the church, so we need to pray constantly for guidance.

I think the best advice is to stay close to the trunk of the tree, don't get involved in a lot of new and innovative things, and you can't go wrong. Stay with the "tried and true." That is how I deal with problems in the church. I don't have the capacity or authority to change anything or anyone. I can only work on myself and hope that my good example will help others.

But I do admit that if I come across someone or something that seems to have a "strange spirit," I will avoid that person or situation. That may seem like a cop out, but I just don't feel I'm strong enough to do anything else.

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

But I do admit that if I come across someone or something that seems to have a "strange spirit," I will avoid that person or situation. That may seem like a cop out, but I just don't feel I'm strong enough to do anything else.

It's not a cop out. St. Bruno, St. Bernard of Clairvaux, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Ignatius of Loyola and St. Francis de Sales all suggested the same path. St. Ignatius of Loyola actually came up with a method to test the spirits. It was his idea that the spirits did not necessarily lay with the other person, but rather used the other person for or against us, since there are good spirits and malevolent spirits.

You may like this page on the 14 Rules of St. Ignatius Loyola for Discernment of Spirits .

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

[Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by JReducation

It's not a cop out. St. Bruno, St. Bernard of Clairvaux, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Ignatius of Loyola and St. Francis de Sales all suggested the same path. St. Ignatius of Loyola actually came up with a method to test the spirits. It was his idea that the spirits did not necessarily lay with the other person, but rather used the other person for or against us, since there are good spirits and malevolent spirits.

You may like this page on the 14 Rules of St. Ignatius Loyola for Discernment of Spirits .

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Thank you for the link, Br. JR. I've only given it a quick look through so far, but this seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. There are a lot of spiritual minefields out there, and we all need all the help we can get.

[Rich C]

I recommend a daily Rosary for the Holy Father's intentions, and that you remember that the Internet is a public place and not the best place to discuss everything.

That said, if you want to talk about something controversial, register at Fish Eaters. They only ban outspoken sedes and the obstinately rude.